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chaos0xomega wrote:
Do we thing the current necromunda starter box (w escher and delaque + ZM terrain) is going OOP?

They could always create a new starter box, but Hive Secundus isn't one. I mean the least a starter set should provide are two gangs to play out of the box in a normal Necromunda game, not just in the 2-player campaign in the box and another in The Book of Desolation.

GW uses all non 40k games as test beds for 40k. AoS lets them test rules and approaches like simplifying options, removal of the old STR v Toughness, etc. Necromunda is their undead experiment. What if they sold a never ending, rapid succession of editions but just never admitted to it? Would people still buy for fear of losing the guaranteed player base?

 privateer4hire wrote:
GW uses all non 40k games as test beds for 40k. AoS lets them test rules and approaches like simplifying options, removal of the old STR v Toughness, etc. Necromunda is their undead experiment. What if they sold a never ending, rapid succession of editions but just never admitted to it? Would people still buy for fear of losing the guaranteed player base?

Except Necromunda is the opposite; the core rules don’t change, they just added campaigns with new units, terrain, missions, etc. The only substantial change they’ve made since the reboot is to add the vehicle rules in Ashwastes, and that was a genuine addition, with only very limited changes to the core rules for compatibility/consistency.

I wish they were running 40K like Necromunda. Cool, weird and colourful units and characters, high levels of customisation to allow you to make them your guys and regular interesting campaigns built on a consistent ruleset, that allows you to have new, fun things to play without invalidating your entire back catalogue? Yes please.

Necromunda Hive Secundus – Head into the Depths with a Complete Two-Player Campaign - Warhammer Community


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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/16/hive-secundus-the-fall-of-the-jewel-of-necromunda/

You know, I think I have WD145.

Thats a nicely compelling story, with some truly epic levels of call back. I wish I had the capacity in my life to actually play it a bit

Wow, they are really giving this release the full court press. Two articles in one day?

Flinty wrote:Thats a nicely compelling story, with some truly epic levels of call back. I wish I had the capacity in my life to actually play it a bit

I'm in the process of moving to Spokane, WA. There's a GW store and 3 independent retailers there according to GW's website (who knows how accurate that really is). Now that I'm retired I should be able to round up some Necromunda and/or Blood Bowl action.

and they now operate as ferrymen for Spyre Hunters of the Imperial House, Van Saar Tek-hunters, and other parties interested in the detritus of Hive Secundus.

The ferrymen are definitely distinct from the Van Saar tek hunters.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The two Orrus Spyre Hunters can be built with a range of top-tier weaponry,** while their Van Saar allies are a new type of specialist with access to additional guns, equipment, and specialist skills.

Sounds like the Ferrymen to me?

There were also many settlements on the wrong side of the Dust Wall that were completely cut off from the Imperium whether they had been infected or not. These communities began to consolidate and work together in order to survive. In the end, they built settlements around the Abyss, which eventually became the Port Cities, and they now operate as ferrymen for Spyre Hunters of the Imperial House, Van Saar Tek-hunters, and other parties interested in the detritus of Hive Secundus.

Ferrymen are local hirelings, Tek-hunters are part of your gang.


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Oh, and there's a video tucked in at the end of the article

https://youtu.be/fv6-qcWT4uc?si=VOvMcfbZzr-zjmy7

If you're wanting to get technical about it, Tek-Hunters are a new type of gang.

The upcoming Book of Desolation contains more advanced rules for Secundan Incursion Gangs, Spyrer Hunting Parties, Malstrain and Malstrain Corrupted Gangs, and a thrilling variant of the Underhells Campaign which supports multiple gangs.

Either way, as of yesterday they sounded like Ferrymen to me. Still kinda do, given the basically nothing we have on the topic.

So the surviving genestealer infestation is supposed to be a big ol' secret, but young nobles routinely go and fight genestealers.
That... seems like a surefire way of having the secret get out.
I dunno; everybody seems like an idiot because the plot requires them to be...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So the surviving genestealer infestation is supposed to be a big ol' secret, but young nobles routinely go and fight genestealers.
That... seems like a surefire way of having the secret get out.
I dunno; everybody seems like an idiot because the plot requires them to be...

We passed that stage at "the Van Saar have a fully functional STC that they've kept secret for centuries despite wandering around openly using rad weapons, micro-grav tech, and unknown patterns of weapon for most of that time". N17 is the most switch-brain-off-upon-entry narrative GW have produced in a long time.

Is there any more info on the suggested co-op play? Or do we think that was a warhammer community error?

(Thinking of getting this to play with my son if there is a good ai system for the malstrains..)

barnacle111 wrote:
Is there any more info on the suggested co-op play? Or do we think that was a warhammer community error?

(Thinking of getting this to play with my son if there is a good ai system for the malstrains..)

I don't think there is such a mode, but have a good read through the rules for the Ambot Hunt...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/u~H3v6~I9-vZx9Y-.pdf

...as this could easily be applied to the Malstrains( see page 5, "More monsters to hunt" ).

Another classic way to implement ai for hostiles is to set up entry/spawning points at certain places along the edges of the board and have a pool of brood models, so that once one has been slain it returns to the pool ready for respawning. Have 3 spawning points on a score of D3(West, North, East), and then a D6 for how many to spawn from that point...

1: 1x Enslaver thing
2: 2x Brood-Bro guys
3: 1x Malstrain Genie
4: Re-roll!
5-6: No Spawning.

...or something like that and at the beginning of each turn. Keep it simple and just have them move towards the nearest model in your gang, and being fearless they attack with no regard for their own safety. Set up some objective markers on the board - 2 or 3 - and once collected you need to head to the nearest exit from the board.

Operation last train has a simple AI for genestealer-like beasties

http://therenaissancetroll.blogspot.com/2019/03/operation-last-train-charity-wargame_8.html?m=1


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Alternatively, the. Blackstone Fortress AI engine would probably work well using the ghuul cards maybe?

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So the surviving genestealer infestation is supposed to be a big ol' secret, but young nobles routinely go and fight genestealers.
That... seems like a surefire way of having the secret get out.
I dunno; everybody seems like an idiot because the plot requires them to be...

We passed that stage at "the Van Saar have a fully functional STC that they've kept secret for centuries despite wandering around openly using rad weapons, micro-grav tech, and unknown patterns of weapon for most of that time". N17 is the most switch-brain-off-upon-entry narrative GW have produced in a long time.

Necromunda lore is canon, 40k lore is propaganda. The Inquisition might want you to think it is all-seeing, but actually it can't tell its arse from its elbow. Helmawr just has to place the odd bribe or two.

(, obviously)

twoseventwo wrote:
Necromunda lore is canon, 40k lore is propaganda. The Inquisiton might want you to think it is all-seeing, but actually it can't tell its arse from its elbow. Helmawr just has to place the odd bribe or two.

(, obviously)

I guess it comes down to what your grounding is for 40k lore.

If we go with something like:

"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. This is the tale of these times. It is a universe you can live today if you dare - for this is a dark and terrible era where you will find little comfort or hope. If you want to take part in the adventure then prepare yourself now. Forget the power of technology, science and common humanity. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for there is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed."

Then... I don't think having some nobles hunt down irradiated genestealers in the heart of a fallen Hive is so implausible. From the Inquisition's perspective Hive Secondus was "fixed", the situation on Necromunda is "fine", and there are far more pressing things to be getting on with.

Actually since the inquisitor that ordered the bombardment declared the infestation dealt with, all Helmawr has to do is claim he’s keeping guard on the rift to “make sure” and he’s just suitably paranoid and prepared.


Also I think some people are forgetting just how backwards the average world is in 40K; almost none of them have global information networks, most of them don’t even have what you would call a telephone service and even for the ones that do I guarantee that off-world long distance charges are insane. So who, exactly, is going to tell? Essentially you would have to have an inquisitor decide that the prior solution wasn’t enough (when it really should have been, TBF) and go and personally inquisit the place, all without Helmawr noticing and coming up with a way to delay or divert them. Y’know, like the totally-not-khornate meat-gangs.

twoseventwo wrote:

 YodhrinsForge wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
So the surviving genestealer infestation is supposed to be a big ol' secret, but young nobles routinely go and fight genestealers.
That... seems like a surefire way of having the secret get out.
I dunno; everybody seems like an idiot because the plot requires them to be...

We passed that stage at "the Van Saar have a fully functional STC that they've kept secret for centuries despite wandering around openly using rad weapons, micro-grav tech, and unknown patterns of weapon for most of that time". N17 is the most switch-brain-off-upon-entry narrative GW have produced in a long time.

Necromunda lore is canon, 40k lore is propaganda. The Inquisiton might want you to think it is all-seeing, but actually it can't tell its arse from its elbow. Helmawr just has to place the odd bribe or two.

(, obviously)

Oh the Van Saar thing is pretty straight forward. House Van Saar of course, like all six Clan Houses, contribute an awful lot to Necromunda’s economy and ability to meet its tithe. And when your tithe is met, The Imperium isn’t seen to particularly care how you did it.

Now, House Helmawr almost certainly knows just what House Van Saar has. But, provided they’re subtle about deploying the especially fancy weapons? It’s not something that’s a day to day concern for anyone else. All most are presented as caring about is that House Van Saar are good with tech and keep things ticking over.

In the Underhive? Well. Absolutely nobody down there cares that your Lasgun is slightly fancier with a higher cyclic rate of fire, more shots per powercell etc. you get shot, it hurts and you might die. Hit by a Radgun? Probably not a lot of you left to go tattling. And the relative civvies? All hail our new lords and masters who are really shooty and make mince meat of anything that comes bothering our settlement.

The other Clan Houses? Chances are they don’t even know what an STC is, and so may well be in blissful ignorance of just how easy it might be to remove House Van Saar. But….if they are? They’d likely know “that would also mean no more House Helmawr, and there’s an awful, awful lot to be said about stability and status quo, who knows who might replace them, and if they’d be as willing to turn a blind eye to our own pretty illegal shenanigans”.

They all have dirty secrets they’d like to keep. So exposing one another to the proper authorities just isn’t desirable.

Plus, the original infestation happened due to the Inquisition in the first place. There are radical factions who are more than happy to keep a nice research project going who will cover it up.

 SgtEeveell wrote:
Wow, they are really giving this release the full court press. Two articles in one day?

Yeah, it does feel they're releasing it earlier than they planned and are rushing to catch up.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The other Clan Houses? Chances are they don’t even know what an STC is, and so may well be in blissful ignorance of just how easy it might be to remove House Van Saar. .

Ousting Van Saar from the STC would mean no more STC. Who else would want the rad-sickness that Van Saar knows how to handle?
Anyone who knows about the STC probably knows about the sickness, and stays away.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/17/hive-secundus-who-are-the-spyre-hunters/

That new article mentions the Spyrer suits are Alien in origin, was that mentioned previously? I remember the original lore was supposedly that the Tau were involved, but can't really see that being the case with the new versions.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Also I think some people are forgetting just how backwards the average world is in 40K; almost none of them have global information networks, most of them don’t even have what you would call a telephone service and even for the ones that do I guarantee that off-world long distance charges are insane. So who, exactly, is going to tell? Essentially you would have to have an inquisitor decide that the prior solution wasn’t enough (when it really should have been, TBF) and go and personally inquisit the place, all without Helmawr noticing and coming up with a way to delay or divert them. Y’know, like the totally-not-khornate meat-gangs.

People seem to act like there's a singular level of tech and anything that even appears to go beyond that would immediately get the Mechanicus or Inquisitions attention, which is just not the case at all. There's a vast variety of tech between Imperial Worlds as well as just general styles making a difference, let alone things like ancient examples of pre-existing stuff that could just be randomly found on a world. One of the Enforcer elite units is using archaeotech weapons for example, and I'm pretty sure one of the new groups from the last expansion were too, Hive Worlds are a mix of all sorts of completely random things. It's not like there's a list of every pattern of tech and exactly who has it and where it comes from and the Mechanicus just knows what's wrong. The Van Saar are not running around showing off their high-tech gear to a tech priest, and even then its not as if they've got anything that's just so out there that it would immediately make anyone think they've got an STC with no other explanation.

Tau were hinted at, but it never made much sense in terms of timescales involved.

I did a thread about in Background which proved pretty fruitful.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/813808.page

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/17/hive-secundus-undoing-perfection-with-the-horrors-of-the-malstrain/

After dabbling with the OOP launch box and the first couple of gang releases I quickly fell off the wagon as it seemed too much trouble to keep up with Necromunda and my other hobby interests. Since I've lost track of the expansions and where the game sets rule and model wise.

Having said that, this "new" setting and models are catching my eye a bit. Is the new box a good way to get stuck in or is it a thirst trap that will have me all of a sudden chasing down half a dozen books and such? In other words, would you recommend this as a starting point for new or returning player?

Lord of Deeds wrote:After dabbling with the OOP launch box and the first couple of gang releases I quickly fell off the wagon as it seemed too much trouble to keep up with Necromunda and my other hobby interests. Since I've lost track of the expansions and where the game sets rule and model wise.

Having said that, this "new" setting and models are catching my eye a bit. Is the new box a good way to get stuck in or is it a thirst trap that will have me all of a sudden chasing down half a dozen books and such? In other words, would you recommend this as a starting point for new or returning player?

All of the above. It seems like a fairly self-contained thing, as long as you only want to play the factions that are in the box against each other. But then you will need to get the upcoming Book of Desolation if you want to play any other gangs. I'll be pretty surprised if it has all the rules you need for specific gangs. I'm expecting more new books with details for 2-3 gangs in each one. Plus I'm sure you'll need the "House of..." book for each gang.

Since Rules can't be copyrighted there are places to access all the stats & point values and such-like stuff online w/o buying quite so many books.

Personally, I actually do have all the books. But I bought most of them in eBook form, the new Necromunda Core Rulebook is the only hard copy I've bought in the last 5 years. I'm not even trying to collect all of the games though. The ones I'm actively collecting are Escher, Enforcers and Squats. Plus the Goliath, Delaque, Orlock and Ash Waste Nomads that were included in various box sets.

I do have a lot of Necromunda (and Blood Bowl) stuff, but I don't play WH40K or AoS.