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The recently released Space Wolves codex has a huge number of bizarre inconsistencies and scratch-your-head unclear rules. But is it the worst Codex Games Worskhop has ever released from a purely technical standpoint?

If not, what Codex is?

Ahhh deleted because

Well, as usual Luna is set to polarise a thread, lol.

GW writes these things chock full of ambiguities on purpose. Isn't it part of JJ's anti-tournament-bot platform? SW doesn't seem any worse to me than many others. And if it actually is, I'd bet on that being the direction the rest of 5th Ed will go. Yak, how do you think it compares to new SM, Orks, and IG?

LunaHound, I couldn't agree more, on both points. I gave up White Dwarf about 18-20 months ago, and don't miss the "advetorial" slant the magazine was taking.

Manchu is also correct, it's not worse than the others, the all leave a lot to be desired. From bad layout to piss-poor editing, the direction 5th seems to be taking is down the crapper.

Just want to borrow the thread for a moment: WD is looking up, especially last month (not so much the SH issue). The SW modelling/painting articles (3 separate ones) were very cool and the battle report wasn't just "SW are awesome." Haven't gotten my hands on Nov issue yet, however, but there was supposed to be more on SW conversions. I grant that it is mostly an ad mag BUT GW doesn't have any other serious outlet for that--DoW aside, of course.

Back On Topic: I don't think 5th ed is bad at all actually. I'm especially puzzled by your layout criticism, Maleval.

I would also like to re-iterate the question (not necessarily to Maleval, since he has pretty much answered it) how people think the SW 'dex fits in with the other 5th ed codices? Anybody see a pattern emerging along the lines of Yak's original Q?

You guys seem to have missed the point of the question.

I'm asking if the Space Wolves codex is the worst TECHNICALLY written codex ever.

What I mean by that, is IMHO, the Wolf codex has way more rules that are unclear, ambiguous or simply have the wrong names in them than any other codex they've ever made.

I was wondering how many other people feel that way as well?


I have a few theories on why I think this happened, but I thought I'd wait and let the poll develop a bit before busting them out.

yakface wrote: . . . the Wolf codex has way more rules that are unclear, ambiguous or simply have the wrong names in them than any other codex they've ever made.

Wait: poor editing as a mistake or ambiguous rules as an intentional policy? I thought you meant the latter. GW has never been great about spotting the typos (never had any Law Review alums on board, I guess) and that even goes for BL. But that's a totally different question from whether they're starting to write rules that can be looked at in more than one way on purpose.

I think wolf of the wolf wolf is significantly worse then lash when that power came out, both power and writing wise. I think there were some things they either did on purpose that were laziness (no limit on rune priests who can try to shut powers down) or JJs anti tournament crusade (Jaws).

Theres other wording problems, most of them around the rune priest though. If space wolf players include no priests in their list is gets rid of about 77% of the problem.

Things I noticed in the Wolf Codex
* Leader of the Pack rule in not clear.
* Logan's WG Troops is unclear. Does it work like having a Biker Captain or more like Kantor's Sternguard rule?
* Wolf Scouts is missing the 's' off Scouts in the rule section.
* As written "Behind Enemy Lines" does not works if an IC joins the unit.
*Lone Wolfs get EW & FNP from "Glorious Death" Rule when these should just be listed in the entry. Also "Pack of One" stops the wolves you buy for him joining him...

Maybe I missed some, but it does not seem that many.

I'm just expecting there to be an addendum to the outdated codex ruling in the FAQ which says "P.S. If a codex comes out with rules which don't work as written because the rules changed while we were writing the codex, just ignore those outdated rules, too."

Haven't read it yet. Or played against it

Both 3rd edition Chaos codex's were worse.

In the first you had T7 nurgle bikers for a short time, as well as Thousand Sons that couldnt summon a demon.

In the second one you had a full page of FAQs to address the defiler alone.

Well, considering I am THE epitome of Laziness, and it's awfulness spurred me to write a 12 page FAQ (up to 17 pages now) two weeks before the codex went on general sale...

Yes, it is by far the worst Codex GW have done in that regard.

Seriously, replace everyone with Labradors and Border Collies. We'll have a much better result imo.

It is a very poorly edited codex. Major issues?

WG joining squad interactions. Whole host of issues here, including scoring, disappearing units, and KPs.

IC thunderwolves and stat mods- unclear according to some.

Psychic power "combinations".

Logan and WG as troops. Which slots, etc.

Scouts don't have "Scouts".

BEL and ICs.

Rending and Thunder Wolf Cavalry and Special Weapons.

Frost weapons and BP, extra attack? (Or when is a power weapon not a power weapon...)

ICs and Fenrisian wolf wargear joining squads.

Lone Wolf and Fenrisian Wolf wargear- can't join at all?

Jaws of the World Wolf and targeting, etc.

Then, their are minor stuff that just seems weird, like transport differences between C:SM drop pods and C:SW drop pods. Silly like having two different CML stats for CA and C:SM....

That sounds awful, not that I've read it. I'm happy to report that the 5th Edition Guard codex is relatively clear barring a few potential exploits and inconsistencies.

There has been more unclearly written rules. What about the Deff Rolla...

i voted the second one , and will spend this message reminding you of CSM

They're hard to compare. Most codexes are so terribly written an archaeologist/anthropologist wouldn't be able to figure out what they mean.

I've been buying GW books since the tail end of Rogue Trader.

I have rolled on the d1000 mutation table.

I once blew up a Warlord titan with an Eldar Deathspinner because 'models that cannot move are automatically destroyed'.

It takes some pretty bad writing to impress me.

For how long it takes them to release a codex you'd think they'd let someone else edit the damn thing. This space wolf one is pretty bad, not only are a lot of the rules fuzzy, but I think there are some combos they didn't really consider either.

Like the guy with the shooting thunder hammer to make a c'tan's initative 1 then hit him with JAWW.

Gwar! wrote:Seriously, replace everyone with Labradors and Border Collies. We'll have a much better result imo.

Yes, Dogs can at least be taught tricks

But I personally think it is all one and the same. The 5th edition BRB had a polethera of verbal inconsistancies that would make a english professor tear his eyes out just to avoid the pain of reading it. Like using the term "within" when they actually meant "up to and bordering".

Necrons and Dark Eldar are pretty "wtf" codices, so no I don't think SW was the worse

Necrons are dark eldar are excluded from this though. Both are from 2 editions ago. Almost all rules issues with them stem from out of date stuff.

I think its bad, because the space wolves hate and despise magic, but now they get librar...err... shamans

LordBoJangles wrote:I think its bad, because the space wolves hate and despise magic, but now they get librar...err... shamans

Oh yes because they"re the only army that has some fluff to rules issues.. They have had psykers before this book..

I think its par for course.

Kids reference is funny..

Basically to be above par for a codex it would have to be about space marines and then not give them a save or something, cause they forgot.

Also theres no malicious intent when your incompetent.

It is like a dream job.

Write rules that no one else edits/checks so you can make as many mistakes as you want.
Go bananas with overpowering units to the point of making games unenjoyable to even turn up and deploy.
Work with a clique who know what you mean, even if it isn't what is written.
Tell people who complain to roll a 4+.

Get paid, and all the minis you want.

It's nothing you can't work around with five minutes of thought.

And a black sharpie

And the cleansing holy fire of an immolator.