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After a 12 year break from GW products I was reintroduced to the game about 2 years ago. At first I was all excited about being able to play miniatures all over again but then something changed. It started out innocently enough. Trying out different units, synergy on the battlefield and re-reading my codex for different combinations. Now however I'm having some problems. I feel that my competitive streak is turning me into a power gamer. I rarely run sub par lists (though my regular opponents tend to field mid competitive) and I don't wanna turn into TFG. I mentioned it to one of my opponents to see if it was just me and he said "it was always in you".

I'm now getting help for my problem. Earlier this week I ran an all flying fluffy nid list. Next week I will be exchanging armies with our resident IG vet in an attempt to lighten up the gaming atmosphere, and I'm currently planning a horde list for the next time I use the nids.

I should also mention that no-one actually minds my competitive streak (we are all mates and each get a lot out of the game...this is just a personal thing). Our group is small and we are in the hobby for our own different reasons (1 guy is a master tactician, 1 loves his modelling, final guy is similar to me).

Has anyone else ever had this kind of problem, and what solutions have you tried?

Try bleaching your hair.

G

Ive always enjoyed playing against my power gamer friend. In everything we have done it helps me and him both get better when we bring our best every game. Thats not to say I cant lean back and play some fluffy stuff also. I love the off the wall combos in games and stuff.

Try to find a guy at your store who you can be competitive against. In my experience if you dont get your competitive game out of you every week you will end up making a lot of casual gamer friends mad. I always know I have an opponent to pitch my meddle against and then the rest of my friends to chill out and have a good time with.

Don't try to fight your nature

Troll thread much? You're assuming that effectiveness and competetiveness are bad. I disagree with your premise, but you're entitled to your opinion :shrug:

Just be less inflammatory and you'll get better answers from everyone.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:Troll thread much? You're assuming that effectiveness and competetiveness are bad. I disagree with your premise, but you're entitled to your opinion :shrug:

Just be less inflammatory and you'll get better answers from everyone.

Some people don't play optimized lists. They may have an unfun time playing against someone who does. I did not find his post inflammatory at all.

5th seems to bring out the power creep so just go with it.

Try this every once in a while [This is how we countered Abadon for the 50th time]
Each bring a full 3000+ point list
Then one at a time take turns removing one unit from your opponent. When you can not remove a unit without going under 1000 your list is finished being reduced.
-Option #1: All of the revmoved units are destroyed.
-Option #2: All of the units are in Reserve [Makes got a long game, but the more powerful units takes a wile to get there.]

@Lukus , i dont know the extent of what kind of power gamer you are ( but you can still be competitive yet not a TFG )
so aslong as you are aware of it , there is still hope.

If you want to see what TFG power gamers behave like , just read GreenBlowFly and Dead Shane's dakka posts during tournament months.

Haha, Luna made me laugh. So true though.

Whoa Whoa Whoa.

It's ok to win a lot. Not because "Oh, I must be good" but that means that sooner of later, your opponents will change up their tactics. If you feel like it, point out what they could do next time to secure victory, oh go over what they should add/subtract from their lists.

Play to win, just make sure that you have fun doing it. Don't worry about playing competetivly, personally, I find a level of competition is what makes the game fun. It's no fun going against a list that both me and my opponent knows is sub-par.

so aslong as you are aware of it , there is still hope.

Brought to you by the Dakka Casual Gaming Mafia.

Ketara wrote:Brought to you by the Dakka Casual Gaming Mafia.

DCGM4L!

Lukus83 wrote:Our group is small and we are in the hobby for our own different reasons (1 guy is a master tactician, 1 loves his modelling, final guy is similar to me).

So there is 1 master tactician, 2 (aspiring) power gamers and 1 guy who loves the modelling.

We can probably guess who wins the least games out of the four of you

Turn away from the dark side.. ask for forgiveness...

Well, I honestly don't know how much of a power gamer I am. Where we are our gaming group of 4/5 is pretty much the whole 40k scene, so there's not much to compare to.

I wasn't trying to be inflammatory. I was in fact hoping for some advice to take the edge off. I enjoy playing powerful lists. Not just to win, but also the tactics involved in getting to the win. All 3 are good gamers, they make solid lists, but generally don't use power builds. I just personally think that when I play my lists don't make for a fun match for the others. No-one has complained yet (and I think the tactician guy enjoys it), but it's worrying to me since I don't wanna end up annoying the guys I play with (and the fact that we are all pretty good mates too).

I myself have used fluffy lists and lost and had a blast, but I'm not into it as much as the others. I like a hard tactical battle where both sides have put their all into their lists and the actual battle itself. My favourite games have probably been the draws, but had to fight tooth and nail to get it. That's the way I'm built.

At TBD: He may be into modelling (and is damn good at it), but that doesn't mean he isn't a good general.





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Anpu42...that sounds like a great idea. Thanks

Nothing wrong with taking the best army you can, any limits should be defined by the codex and what you think is cool enough to use, nothing else.

That said, if you have a friend who you're beating every time, and you feel that you have an overwhelming advantage even from before deployment, you could switch some of your army's units for things that aren't quite as good, but which are cool, or you could try a few radically different ideas for armies, or you could take out 1-2 units and buy some fun upgrades on the rest of the force.

These things might help you (and your inept opponent) have more fun - but then again you could just give him some advice on tactics and unit selection. Either way is good. Personally, I think it's better to encourage effective play than to keep everything at a sub-optimum level to satisfy 1 opponent. On the other hand, given the internal imbalance of units in most codexes, a lot of cool models and units will never see the table if you play at the limit of what your army can do.

Summary: what you use in your army is completely up to you. If you're beating someone every time, automatically, either encourage him with advice, or take the opportunity to try new units and ideas - this should lead to closer and more exciting matches, instead of just creaming him in the same way again and again.

It's not that my opponents are inept, it's that they don't particularly like building ultra competitive lists. That's what's causing the issue with me. However I do agree with you that I could change a few units, but like you mentioned, in older codexes especially, the less used units are generally less used due to their ineffectiveness. I really don't like the idea of replacing a carnifex with a set of biovores, or my termagants with a brood of hormagaunts. It feels like auto lose to me.

All my opponents know how to build tough lists...they are experienced generals, they just like to build lists with the units they like and work from there.

As its been said above there is nothing wrong with being a powergamer or compete on a high level, I don't think it deserves a bad light. Playing to win and being polite and nice is much different than playing to win and being an ass about it.

It just sounds like you like to win and as long as you do that without being rude then your fine.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Try bleaching your hair.

G

This.

TFG is nothing to do with your list, and everything to do with your attitude my friend.

Lots of the guys I game with a Tourny goers, yet only rarely do I feel the need to remind them that I don't really enjoyTourny Practice.

You only become TFG when your attitude is that you and you alone deserve to enjoy the game.

I lose or tie 99% of the time and don't mind because I enjoy the game. As long as you do not rub into someone's face that you are always winning the no one will mind unless they are an ultimate d-bag.

If you want to power game, that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with being a powergamer.

TFG, on the otherhand...

Just do the following to avoid becoming a TFG:

1) Don't cheat
2) Let your opponent know in advance that you are bringing a hard list
3) Don't be an ass
4) Don't cheat

pombe wrote:If you want to power game, that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with being a powergamer.

TFG, on the otherhand...

Just do the following to avoid becoming a TFG:

1) Don't cheat
2) Let your opponent know in advance that you are bringing a hard list
3) Don't be an ass
4) Don't cheat

Don't forget to tell him not to cheat

GW's official policy is: Winning is Rude and should be avoided at all costs.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Power Gaming. I mean, if you're within the rules of your 'dex and you're legal, it's all good.

The fact that your mates don't seem to mind means you're not one of those jerk power gamers - the kind that win and then rub it in.

The key is to learn how to be a good winner. Be generous to your opponents, let them take back the odd move or two if you like, but certainly don't pull punches and certainly keep making lists you enjoy playing. It isn't that bad being beaten by a "good winner." Because the game isn't all about winning, right? It's about having fun. That's what I say to my friends who lose to me all the time.

As far as making "fluffy" lists, this is all good if you enjoy it. It is another side of the hobby and is almost like learning a new army. It does add variety to the game. And if you're worried about becoming a Power Gamer, maybe it is just because you have sensed that there can be more to the game than just powerful lists, and you have decided that you want a taste of it.

If that's the deal, I say go for it. But don't turn your back on the lists you enjoy, either.

Well... wouldn't it be more insulting to dumb your list down for the purposes of opponent consideration (kids/newcomers aside)?

Powergaming(TFG lvls) and taking a 'Ardlist are not the same thing.

Just be honest with yourself and take what you want. You pay money for this hobby. You put time in this hobby (something you can't get back)...go with what you think is fun. Just don't be a jerk and be honest and laid-back about a game of little plastic soldiers and you are all set.

If you opponents are not learning/adapting the way they deploy or use units (not necesarilly tailoring) then it's THEIR problem, not yours.


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For all else, there is Raptor Jesus with his Holy Shotgun to consider as an incentive back to the carebear side in the land of Poketeletubbie Sqare Pants...

Tell your local group your sick of just randomly throwing dice to see who wins. You want 40k to be an actual test of skill and that you want to get better with them. Encourage them to play optimized lists as well so that you can all get better together.

As long as none of you get pissy and moany when you lose, you will not turn into TFG.

LunaHound wrote:
@Lukus , i dont know the extent of what kind of power gamer you are ( but you can still be competitive yet not a TFG )
so aslong as you are aware of it , there is still hope.

If you want to see what TFG power gamers behave like , just read GreenBlowFly and Dead Shane's dakka posts during tournament months.

Deadshane is in no way shape or form a power gamer. I am but I am also a fluff Nazi. You on the other hand are a TM.

G


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MarvinGayeIsMyDaddy wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:Try bleaching your hair.

G

This.

Exactly.