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Hey all, this week me and my buddy decided to get a game in the day I got my dark eldar, giving me a chance to test em out! I'd write a story, but for all intents and purposes Dark Eldar would have no real reason to raid a necron planet @_@ Anyways, onto the report!

Aarons list (necrons)
--------------------------
3 squads of 20x warriors
2 squads of 5x destroyers
2 lords, one in two diff squads. They had the following;
-1x veil of darkness, rez orb
-1x lightning field, rez orb, nightmare shroud
- both had warscythes

My list (Dark Eldar)
-----------------------
1x Archon
- Punisher, Drugs, Shadow Field, Tormenter Helm, Animus Vitae, Plasma Grenades
w/ 5 incubi and Drazhar retinue
- Plasma Grenades
mounted in a Raider (no upgrades)

8x Wyches w/ Succubus
- Plasma Grenades/Wych Weapons
- Agonizer
- 2x Blaster
- trophy rack
- Mounted in Raider w/ horrorfex

8x Wyches w/ Succubus
- Plasma Grenades/Wych Weapons
- Agonizer
- 2x Blaster
- trophy rack
- Mounted in Raider w/ horrorfex

Warp Beast Pack w/ Beastmaster

2x Ravagers
- 3 Disintigrators on each
- Night Shields

1x talos

2x Raider Squads
- 10 warriors mounted in each
- syrabite w/ agonizer
- blaster/shredder cannon in each

3x Heavy support Warrior squads
- 10 man squads
- 2x Dark Lances in each

We rolled for mission/deployment and got Annihilation/Dawn of War. I won the roll off!

Deployment was pretty simple, i placed my archon raider and 1 warrior raider in the middle, giving me the ability to mobilize anywhere to get the assault on the dirty crons! I place 1 of my heavy support teams hiding behind a small hill, giving cover while my dark lances are in front peeking over to be able to shoot! For his deployment he ran 20x warriors on the back left corner, and 20 warriors w/ lord to the left of my raiders ~20 inches. he fails to steal and the DE go first!


Deployments

Dark Eldar T1
-----------------
All my forces move on. Both my other heavy teams come in on my right flank, hiding in some terrain. My wych raiders and warrior raider turboboost 24" on on my left flank. My talos turboboosts 18" or so on on my right. Both ravagers move on 12" (I forgot about night fighting ><. My archon raider turboboosts over to the right, aiming for the squad of warriors in the back. My warrior raider goes left, aiming for the squad w/ lord.

Due to night fighting I fail to see anything with my dark lance squad/ravagers :(


The Dark Eldar Raider wave!

Necrons T1
--------------
His destroyers move on 12", one squad on the left (by my warrior/archon raiders) and one on my right (near my archon raider). His last squad of warriors come on just to the left of his other 20 man squad on the board edge.

For shooting his destroyers on my right can see the archon raider with 3 guys (after night fighting), managing 3 pens and blowing up its darklance when all is said and done (yay for turbo boost cover!). The other squad of destroyers see it with everything, immobilizing(wrecking due to TB) the archons raider. They pass their pinning test! The 20 man warrior squad I fell out in front of (oh no >< can see with about 15 after night fighting... managing a metric asston of wounds on my archon squad >< After saves I'm left with my archon and drazhar with 1 wound left! They stick in there tho! His large 20 man squad with the veil of darkness lord manages 3 glances on the warriors raider, resulting in crew stunned after all is said and done.


Oh noes robot zombies!

Archon/Drazhar barely hanging on!

Dark Eldar T2
-----------------
Talos moves ahead at turbo boost ~ 15" to get into LOS of the destroyers for the next turn. My shaken warrior squad gets out and moves toward his destroyers! One wych raider TB's to the back left corner between two squads. My other wych raider move up 12" and disembark, in range to charge his lord/warrior squad! My second warrior squad chills in their raider for now.The archon/drazhar move up 6" easily in charge range. Ravagers move up 12"

In my shooting phase my heavy support squads on my right knock over 3 destroyers on my right. My two DL and last heavy support team on my left knock down 1 destroyer after cover saves. Wyches blast down 2 warriors w/ blasters. My warriors knock down 1 more destroyer with their blaster.

In the assault the warriors charge his 3 destroyers on my left, wyches charge the massive squad of warriors + lord, archon/drazhar charge his massive 20 man squad. The warriors manage a few wounds, the agonizer fails, and I lose 1 warrior by combat end, losing and tieing combat. The wyches take a massive toll on the warrior squad, doing 13 wounds total (2 power weapon), and after saves... he fails 8 of them!!!!! He also forgets to have his lord in the front, so only warriors swing back, doing nothing and causing the warrior squad to get sweeped! talk about bad luck! The archon + drazhar combined kill off 7 warriors. They do nothing in return, and as a result are swept. My wyches consolidate toward the destroyers, my archon/drazhar move to the left toward his destroyers as well.


Wyches tool the warriors on my left!

Talos lines up!

This is basically how the board looked after T2, no other pics taken afterward as crons conceded shortly afterward!


Necrons T2
--------------
Things aren't looking good at all, but all but 2 destroyers get up across the field (1 in both groups). His right hand destroyers move 12" to the back corner of the field. No other movement.

In shooting phase his remaining lord uses Nightmare Shroud, hitting the squad of warriors in combat w/ the destroyers... causing them to run! I fail my initiative (roll a 1) and he rolls a 5, the destroyers sweep the warriors! He consolidates toward my archon, forgetting he can't shoot this turn with the destroyers that were in combat! The warriors manage to immobilize (wreck) the turbo boosted raider. Destroyers unload on the talos, but I save all my wounds!

Dark Eldar T3
-----------------
Seeing victory is assured, I move up with both squad of wyches toward the warriors. My archon moves into charge range of his left destroyers. Talos gets 12" toward his back destroyers, and is within charge range. Seeing as there would be no way for him to pull it out (as he lost veil) he concedes. Victory to the pirates!

Aftermath: Aaron said he didn't want to run 'Liths against DE because he'd feel cheesy. Even after I said its cool several times he still refused... I honestly think they would have helped a lot and made the win almost impossible (because of the number of KP's I have vs. necrons). Either way, was a fun game and a definite learning experience for us both! As well I forgot to do anything with my beasts/ravagers all game (too focused on assaulting lol) thus why I omited what I did with em.

As much as I'd like to hope that monoliths would have helped him, it really wouldn't have. They're slow, easy enough to move around with such fast forces, and you know where the guys are going to be coming out. With multiple monoliths it spreads out the area you'd have to cover to assault everything, but then your seriously reducing the number of necrons, making phase out easier to reach. And with the disparity in close combat ability and resolution, there's a good chance that all you have to do is make it to the necrons, and the squad is gone.

But otherwise, good report. And it gave me an idea or two I'd like to try with my necrons. I'd share, but here isn't the place.

dancingcricket wrote:As much as I'd like to hope that monoliths would have helped him, it really wouldn't have. They're slow, easy enough to move around with such fast forces, and you know where the guys are going to be coming out. With multiple monoliths it spreads out the area you'd have to cover to assault everything, but then your seriously reducing the number of necrons, making phase out easier to reach. And with the disparity in close combat ability and resolution, there's a good chance that all you have to do is make it to the necrons, and the squad is gone.

But otherwise, good report. And it gave me an idea or two I'd like to try with my necrons. I'd share, but here isn't the place.

You make some valid points, however with liths it gives him more pew pew (gauss flux arc would have been devastating in this game), teleporting, and a wall that dark eldar can never fully destroy (only immobilize :( ). I'd say 1 lith definitely would have helped!

talking after the game Aaron said next time he faces something like DE he'd make his warrior squads smaller, take a lith or two, and possibly a squad of immortals. Immortals with a veil lord in this game would have been insanely hard to deal with unless I got my archon squad to em, but even then if I didn't take down the lord I would have been hard pressed! T5 troops are very difficult for DE to do anything about I've noticed.

Either way, it was a good learning experience for us both. I think the fact I got to go first and it was dawn of war deployment helped tremendously. It neutered his ability to lay waste to my raiders with glancing shots, while allowing me the chance to get up close and personal quickly. Destroyers could have wrecked me this game if they had gotten the chance to!

Um...Talos cannot turboboost 18".

The only unit types that can make this type of movement (or a similar movement) are vehicles of the fast or fast skimmer variety or jetbikes. The Talos is neither of these.

The skimmer rule under the Talos entry explains exactly how it works. It is merely a monstrous creature that gets to move over terrain and enemy models. Otherwise, it is still limited to 6" moves, run, and normal assault moves.

Some people are not a big fan of the GW FAQs, but here is GW's position on the issue:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180149_Dark_Eldar_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

Zid wrote:

dancingcricket wrote:As much as I'd like to hope that monoliths would have helped him, it really wouldn't have. They're slow, easy enough to move around with such fast forces, and you know where the guys are going to be coming out. With multiple monoliths it spreads out the area you'd have to cover to assault everything, but then your seriously reducing the number of necrons, making phase out easier to reach. And with the disparity in close combat ability and resolution, there's a good chance that all you have to do is make it to the necrons, and the squad is gone.

But otherwise, good report. And it gave me an idea or two I'd like to try with my necrons. I'd share, but here isn't the place.

You make some valid points, however with liths it gives him more pew pew (gauss flux arc would have been devastating in this game), teleporting, and a wall that dark eldar can never fully destroy (only immobilize :( ). I'd say 1 lith definitely would have helped!

talking after the game Aaron said next time he faces something like DE he'd make his warrior squads smaller, take a lith or two, and possibly a squad of immortals. Immortals with a veil lord in this game would have been insanely hard to deal with unless I got my archon squad to em, but even then if I didn't take down the lord I would have been hard pressed! T5 troops are very difficult for DE to do anything about I've noticed.

Either way, it was a good learning experience for us both. I think the fact I got to go first and it was dawn of war deployment helped tremendously. It neutered his ability to lay waste to my raiders with glancing shots, while allowing me the chance to get up close and personal quickly. Destroyers could have wrecked me this game if they had gotten the chance to!

Gauss flux arc can be, but it's still situational. Smaller units of warriors might let you put them in the middle of a monolith triangle closed off so nobody got LOS to the warriors, or enough room to charge past them, and then you can gauss arc and large blast all day. But as all a unit needs to do is get to the necrons, and then they wipe them out so that there is no wbb, it's worth the sacrifice of getting hit with the gauss arc after. Remember, wipe out/phase out is an automatic victory regardless of all other victory conditions. Trading a unit for a unit, or 2 to 1, so long as you have one left when they phase out, is a win.

Yeah, the immortals are the way to go with a veil lord. Warriors are rather risky, the 12 inch range after the teleport means you are showing up dangerously close to whatever your shooting, or are showing up far enough out that you aren't getting in any shots.

Saldiven wrote:Um...Talos cannot turboboost 18".

The only unit types that can make this type of movement (or a similar movement) are vehicles of the fast or fast skimmer variety or jetbikes. The Talos is neither of these.

The skimmer rule under the Talos entry explains exactly how it works. It is merely a monstrous creature that gets to move over terrain and enemy models. Otherwise, it is still limited to 6" moves, run, and normal assault moves.

Some people are not a big fan of the GW FAQs, but here is GW's position on the issue:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180149_Dark_Eldar_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

Aye, I only learned this AFTER the game and read up on the FAQ. Either way, the talos didn't really do much of... well, anything that game. So its really moot altogether. But I know now why people never run them lol (an MC that cannot run? fail)

And agreed one some points cricket. I find when running crons (I have a small army) Gauss Flux Arc is insanely good against eldar, dark eldar, and tau. So much so I rarely use the blast template in those games (unless I'm trying to kill a unit I really hate, like striking scorpions or crisis suits). Its entirely situational, but needless to say, even 1 lith in a list is a powerful tool!

Saldiven wrote:Um...Talos cannot turboboost 18".

This is very much true whether or not you go with the GW FAQ. Without the FAQ all they can do is ignore terrain tests for movement and potentially have to take dangerous terrain tests if they stop in it. Thankfully now it can run in 5th, but it's still on the slow side if you're running as many Raiders as you are.

Also, just as a heads up, you had incorrect deployment - a dedicated transport counts as an additional unit. Therefore you started the game with 2 HQ (retinue and dedicated transport) and 3 troop (Raider squad, Dedicated Raider, and Warrior Squad) on the table. Check out pg. 93 bottom right corner of the example to see this in practice in the 5th edition rulebook.

As a bit of advice, with DE, I would generally advocate taking second turn on DoW deployment games and start your entire army off board. It will cut down on how much he can shoot at you and let you see how you want to deploy versus him. You also want to be careful about rushing up your Lord unsupported like that - Raiders are easy to explode and once you're out of the Raider they can shoot up your super assault retinue like nobody's business. DE have no problems dealing with Monoliths - just dance around the slow moving wreck and shoot up his units. Assault anything that moves outside of flux arc range with Wyches. Phase out and you're done. If you're really bored you can shoot up his Monolith with Lances till you weapon destroy him to the point the Flux Arc is useless and then just assault in and kill everything. With Necrons your big danger is Destroyers, as those things eat Raiders like candy. They are the primary target with Immortals a reasonable close second.

Good to see a DE battle rep though.

Thor665 wrote:

Saldiven wrote:Um...Talos cannot turboboost 18".

Also, just as a heads up, you had incorrect deployment - a dedicated transport counts as an additional unit. Therefore you started the game with 2 HQ (retinue and dedicated transport) and 3 troop (Raider squad, Dedicated Raider, and Warrior Squad) on the table. Check out pg. 93 bottom right corner of the example to see this in practice in the 5th edition rulebook.

Well I didn't know about transports being troop choices (that honestly makes no damn sense in any logical way lol), so yeah I ahd that wrong. but how does the retinue count as an HQ? from the way I look at it I'd have 4 troops (2 transports, 2 troops) and 1 HQ w/ retinue. A Hive tyrant with guards still counts as 1 HQ.

The IC is perma joined with the retinue - when I said retinue I was shortening saying DE Lord plus his Incubi retinue. All of them together are one unit and thus one HQ choice for DoW deployment.

It became 2 when you included their dedicated transport Raider, which officially is under the HQ force Org chart.

Thor665 wrote:The IC is perma joined with the retinue - when I said retinue I was shortening saying DE Lord plus his Incubi retinue. All of them together are one unit and thus one HQ choice for DoW deployment.

It became 2 when you included their dedicated transport Raider, which officially is under the HQ force Org chart.

ahhhh understood!

Thereby cementing my opinion that Dawn of War is the worst game type in 40k lol...

Thor said what i was going to about transports... lol. It is still great for DE if you get the first turn on DOW though. You force back your opponent to his board edge and then bring all your units on taking positions you want. Then your opponent suffers Nightfight so little pain for you to deal with, and then *BANG* you are first out of Nightfight with his whole army to see/kill. I quite like DOW because even going 2nd at least you can bring on your army in responce to your opponent and put what needs to be in the right place.

All i can say to your friend is that 'Liths are fully playing into your hands. Fewer models for phasing out and he achieves very little extra with them. Scattering your Raiders he is never going to cause you a catastrophic issue with the Lith weapons, and in responce you can move away and completely ignore it for most of the game...

Yeah, still not sold on the monoliths, and I have 3 of them. Necrons could really use a fast opened top skimmer, that the immortals could fire out of. Now that would be nice... (Alright, so they could really use an awful lot of stuff)

Yeah you're best just leaving 'Liths and going with Heavy Destroyer Squads. Hoping for the first turn so they can do the damage Vs heavy vehicles before they get smacked silly.

I quite like 'Cron lists with lots of Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers... along with 2 Lords on Destroyer Bodies and 2 Tomb Spyders. Gives them the speed they need!

Messiah2k02 wrote:Yeah you're best just leaving 'Liths and going with Heavy Destroyer Squads. Hoping for the first turn so they can do the damage Vs heavy vehicles before they get smacked silly.

I quite like 'Cron lists with lots of Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers... along with 2 Lords on Destroyer Bodies and 2 Tomb Spyders. Gives them the speed they need!

I agree with the heavy destroyers, they're epiccly good! Lascannons that can move 12" a turn is never bad!

I'd still say 1 lith would have worked well, along with smaller warrior squads, and a lord w/ immortals and veil. I think the key to the game was my wyches wiping out a 560 point squad and his most valuable lord on the table in a second turn assault that cemented the game. As well, I think he deployed poorly with his destroyers. He should have kept them away from the bulk of my forces, when in fact he deployed one squad right where all my stuff was coming.

There was quite a few things that could have gone differently, and I think his list lacked flexibility. Destroyers were a great choice, but 3 giant squads of warriors didn't really do much except for give my wyches and archon squad giant squads with an "eat me" stamp pasted on em. I only ever run a 20 man warrior squad if I'm deep striking a lith to teleport them in. As well, I've NEVER seen a use for 3 liths (unless your paying like 4000+ points). I find using 1 between 1500-2000 and 2 at 2000-2500 pretty average (and using heavy destroyers if I'm facing things like marines).

Anyways, I'll let aaron know the feedback ya'll are giving! He played DE back in 3rd ed, but this was the first time hes ever played AGAINST them!

Ummm..... did you remember phase out? or were you playing without that rule?

I think that both necrons and dark eldar are 'broken' anyway. In the sense that both have not have new codexes for years and many editions of the rules. If you try to use the new rules with them it simply does not work. If you had played the game using old rules it could have been fairer. Necrons are seriously underpower in the 5th edition and dark eldar are not much better.

Last time i played my DE i played against necrons, and I stayed at 31 inches away for the first two turns, with my ravagers and I wiped out the necron players destroyers with my ravagers.... then i moved up too 25 inches and layed wasted into the rest of the army.... I lost no models that game.... the necron player was just so shocked that he couldnt , touch me with his weapond.... the only thing that saved him was the cover saves..... I rained down 9 blast templates a turn and 12 dark lances a turn into his squads.....

StarGate wrote:Last time i played my DE i played against necrons, and I stayed at 31 inches away for the first two turns, with my ravagers and I wiped out the necron players destroyers with my ravagers.... then i moved up too 25 inches and layed wasted into the rest of the army.... I lost no models that game.... the necron player was just so shocked that he couldnt , touch me with his weapond.... the only thing that saved him was the cover saves..... I rained down 9 blast templates a turn and 12 dark lances a turn into his squads.....

Haha nice. That woud be an amazing tactic against an assaulty army like orks, tyranids, GK's, daemons or csm.

DE vs Necron batrep-now theres something you don't see everyday!

Overall, nice report Zid . If I was the Necron player, I think I would have attempted to keep the two destroyer squads together when they arrived and send them down a singular flank, while reinforcing the other with the warrior squads-Necrons are never going to be faster than dark Eldar, so IMO holding a static footing and shooting at you as you move closer would have been a solider plan. Just an observation though, not a critiscm, and altogether sounds like a thouroughly enjoyable game!

Good thing he didn't have any monoliths, eh? >< That would have been ugly for you.

To be frank, Dash, when it comes to Necrons I'm mostly scared of Destroyers (and to a slightly lesser extent H. Destroyers and Immortals). A Monolith is just a big slow firebase that can't possibly fire enough to disable too many Raiders over the course of the game.

Thor665 wrote:To be frank, Dash, when it comes to Necrons I'm mostly scared of Destroyers (and to a slightly lesser extent H. Destroyers and Immortals). A Monolith is just a big slow firebase that can't possibly fire enough to disable too many Raiders over the course of the game.

Unless he gets a lucky flux arc, in which case it can be painful if they roll well :(

Talk about thread necromancy LOL!

Zid wrote:Unless he gets a lucky flux arc, in which case it can be painful if they roll well :(

My basic response would be - what are you doing in flux arc range? It's an 18" threat radius so there's no reason for your Raiders or Ravagers to come within it. They should be operating on the edges with splinter weaponry and waves of Dissie shots as well as pouring lances into the Destroyers. You might end up exposing some units and vehicles to it late game, but at that point you should have the Necrons on the ropes anyway so the loss of a Raider is fairly meaningless.

Thor665 wrote:

Zid wrote:Unless he gets a lucky flux arc, in which case it can be painful if they roll well :(

My basic response would be - what are you doing in flux arc range? It's an 18" threat radius so there's no reason for your Raiders or Ravagers to come within it. They should be operating on the edges with splinter weaponry and waves of Dissie shots as well as pouring lances into the Destroyers. You might end up exposing some units and vehicles to it late game, but at that point you should have the Necrons on the ropes anyway so the loss of a Raider is fairly meaningless.

Deepstrike lol. Dunno about you, but when I had 'Crons I'd rarely start it on the board. You can still arc after DS, and if they get a lucky scatter, could have a huge threat. I'd DEFINITELY not go near a 'Lith if I had a choice lol

I would be quite happy if a Necron player decided to deepstrike his Monoliths instead of starting them on the board versus DE.

Thor665 wrote:I would be quite happy if a Necron player decided to deepstrike his Monoliths instead of starting them on the board versus DE.

Aye, but that puts it where it could do more damage against DE. If its starts on the board we can just outmaneuver it and make it use its blast to kill MAYBE 1 raider a turn. Not very good use of it. Its just a personal opinion, and I haven't fought 'Crons again (yet) with my DE to test this out. Mostly a bunch o' marines, which as we know, DE can make quick work of

The reason I am happy to not see a Monolith on the board is it serves as a sort of security bubble to keep my Wyches from getting into h2h combat with the Necrons - which is something I want and the Necrons do not. Yes, I can stay out of range of the Monolith, but engaging in a shooting war with Necrons is slower work then getting them in h2h.

With the Monolith off the board I can spread out my battle lines, pick at the Necrons from range and then on turn 2 if he's lucky he gets his Monolith to DS in. At that point I am either forcing him to drop it to try to bust up some Raiders, or drop it to create a security bubble to defend his units from Wych assault. If he chooses the latter then I've basically earned two turns in a row without him firing the Power Matrix at me - win for DE. If he chooses the former then I am able to then assault with my Wyches - win for DE. If he doesn't get a DS Monolith (50% chance) then I can assault and give him an even more obnoxious set of options on turn 3 - win for DE)

I'll have too many Raiders in too many locations for a single Monolith to be a danger. My big threat is those thrice accursed Destroyers - who are much more dangerous to my Raiders then anything else he has and can be a little tricky to run down and lock into h2h even with Wyches.

Zid wrote:

Thor665 wrote:

Zid wrote:Unless he gets a lucky flux arc, in which case it can be painful if they roll well :(

My basic response would be - what are you doing in flux arc range? It's an 18" threat radius so there's no reason for your Raiders or Ravagers to come within it. They should be operating on the edges with splinter weaponry and waves of Dissie shots as well as pouring lances into the Destroyers. You might end up exposing some units and vehicles to it late game, but at that point you should have the Necrons on the ropes anyway so the loss of a Raider is fairly meaningless.

Deepstrike lol. Dunno about you, but when I had 'Crons I'd rarely start it on the board. You can still arc after DS, and if they get a lucky scatter, could have a huge threat. I'd DEFINITELY not go near a 'Lith if I had a choice lol

Sadly I've learned that you can't flux after DS'ing as you count as going full out. Now yes you can particle whip as you can do that no matter what you move but the flux has to wait one turn

Well, quick clarification - DSing models count as moving at cruising speed - not flat out (this makes a big difference for me when I DS Raiders or Ravagers)

However you're right - I had been wrong that the shoot after moving effect of Monoliths extended to the Gauss Arc - it only works for the Power Matrix. A good thing to keep in mind.