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With the whole hacked off with GW kicking off isn't it time to think about trying a new system? What we need is a comparison list if possible. By this I mean for a 40k game you usually need a 1500pt or 2000pt army to play a game that lasts 2-3 hours. What would the cost be for such an army?

I'll start the ball rolling with my choice, which is Rules of Engagement. To field a German Panzergrenadier force, with support choices it will cost:

Army deal from Warlord Games:

£27.00 - 1 command squad and 2 infantry squads (24 figures)
£6.00 - 1 HMG squad (3 figures)
£5.00 - 2 sniper teams (4 figures)
£6.00 - 1 mortar team (3 figures)
£10.00 - 1 extra squad (10 figures)
£5.00 - 1 Panzerjaeger squad (4 figures)

£59.00 gives you a force that is tactically flexable to fit in with the different missions in RoE. If need be you can add a tank to your force for about £20 (Tamiya 1:48 model works fine). The game usually lasts between 2 - 3 hours, so the same as a 40k game.

If you consider that this is the average cost of a complete force, you can purchase 2 armies for around the £120 mark, which means you have the forces for a mate to use as well.

PLEASE try and avoid the old "like for like" price comparison trap. What I want is the cost for a typical force that allows you to play a game for 2 - 3 hours. This should hopefully allow people to get a more balanced view on what else is out there to play.

Wolfstan wrote:With the whole hacked off with GW kicking off isn't it time to think about trying a new system? What we need is a comparison list if possible. By this I mean for a 40k game you usually need a 1500pt or 2000pt army to play a game that lasts 2-3 hours. What would the cost be for such an army?

I'll start the ball rolling with my choice, which is Rules of Engagement. To field a German Panzergrenadier force, with support choices it will cost:

Army deal from Warlord Games:

£27.00 - 1 command squad and 2 infantry squads (24 figures)
£6.00 - 1 HMG squad (3 figures)
£5.00 - 2 sniper teams (4 figures)
£6.00 - 1 mortar team (3 figures)
£10.00 - 1 extra squad (10 figures)
£5.00 - 1 Panzerjaeger squad (4 figures)

£59.00 gives you a force that is tactically flexable to fit in with the different missions in RoE. If need be you can add a tank to your force for about £20 (Tamiya 1:48 model works fine). The game usually lasts between 2 - 3 hours, so the same as a 40k game.

If you consider that this is the average cost of a complete force, you can purchase 2 armies for around the £120 mark, which means you have the forces for a mate to use as well.

PLEASE try and avoid the old "like for like" price comparison trap. What I want is the cost for a typical force that allows you to play a game for 2 - 3 hours. This should hopefully allow people to get a more balanced view on what else is out there to play.

Ok, maybe not the best comparion in points but in time, 2-3 hours of At-43 would need arround 3000-3500 AP (points) that could be done farilry easily with a 2 Army Box (50-70 USD/65€) each box, not necesarily a "tournament list"

If any readers are wondering what else possibly could rival GW games and don't know where to start, can I suggest taking a few minutes to browse http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/ and if you are feeling like something to read in more detail mabe getting hold of a copy of The Ancible (http://www.the-ancible.com) or Wargames Illustrated (www.wargamesillustrated.net).

There really are loads of great alternative games out there that provide variety, often are cheaper than GW to get into, and often play with a lot more fun and less rules "issues" than 40k and WFB.

Sure its easy to "just fit in" if the local gaming crowd only play 40k, but can I encourage people to grow a backbone and have courage to break out of the mundane GW-only straightjacket! Finding at least one person to try out a new game with really isn't that hard if you give it a serious try, unless you are a total newcomer to the hobby!

Myself and a fellow Dakkaite were at a local war gaming show last month. Picked up a copy of 'Napoleon' and a free booster of perry miniatures, i.e. THE michael and alan perry.
I can't say for a comparison of points yet as we haven't got into the nitty gritty of it. But a box of 'line infantry' is £15 for 40 models. From what i can tell from the rules so far 4 models per base, so 10 bases for £15?? Can't be that bad.
Were hoping to get a test game after the UK doubles Tourney.

Osbad wrote:Sure its easy to "just fit in" if the local gaming crowd only play 40k, but can I encourage people to grow a backbone and have courage to break out of the mundane GW-only straightjacket! Finding at least one person to try out a new game with really isn't that hard if you give it a serious try, unless you are a total newcomer to the hobby!

worth repeating

I find myself once again seriously thinking about plunging into something deliciously not-GeeDub, and we'll see what Black Friday @ TWS holds. I may just, after years of denial, drop buck on Infinity ... but Firestorm Armada is looking nifty too, and a lot of dudes at the FLGS are interested, so maybe that one instead.

Partially driving this is that I'm at my self-imposed limits for warhammer armies (3 fantasy, 2 40k), and have a huge amount of painting backlog to get those 5 up to or back up to points ... So a new game means more stuff to buy, build and put on the queue

- Salvage

Anima Tactics. A 200 point game (4 chars each) allows for variety, and at 10 bucks a pop for the overwhelming majority of figs (you can get big figs for a little more if you want), it's a great one to buy into. The $20 starters are both very good, which is a bit uncommon form my experience too. Tournaments usually run 250-300 points, so with wise purchases you could be tournament-ready for $70 (if you want a fancy leader).

...

Superfigs.

Hordes.

Warmachine.

AE WW2

Secrets of the Third Reich

Pulp City

Flames of War

AT 43

Necromunda

Mordhiem

Gorkamorka

Star Wars

Warlord

Chaos over Carpathea/ chronos /

Drums in the ohio vally

Gangland

.45 cal adventure

All Things Zombie


ect.ect.ect.

There are so many systems out there that you could play one a day and never get to them all in a lifetime. 40K and GW just don't know what kind of competition they really have in thier ivory tower. Most of these have a marginal price and you get a good batch for arounds 20 bucks or so.
You can make scenery out of cardstock, play on a small table, and go for broke.

Cost is irrelevent. What do you want to play and how does it play with other people. THATS the real price.

Now is a good time to jump on the Warmachine bandwagon as they are realeasing MKII pretty soon and they have the new interchangable plastic jacks. Good deal IMO.

Leviathan ("naval" combat with 1910 alternate history airships) just released today as a free, professionally edited pdf and soon to be boxed set with plastic airships. For the time being, there are ship cut-out counters included in the pdf. Download link on http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/ near the top.

If only it was free I would get it..

I might consider some Hordes in addition to my GW, but only just for the painting aspect.

Hordes/Warmachine players are too competative for me.

My group plays 40k, and not much else. Only Microarmor, and I don't want to play with a bunch of eensy weensy guys. Despite all the problems that come with GW, there are multiple good parts. If pricing is an issue, eBay/Swap Shop/etc can get you models at a reduced price. The fluff has problems and holes in it but overall, it's a pretty good universe, and personalized armies can be created and their creation enjoyed. The scale is perfect (not too small/not massive) and 40k is a fairly common hobby. Gw itself is just a bag of pricks, but the hobby is engrossing and fun. I don't see myself changing to anything else in the near future, unless it's LoTR, but we'll see about that.

Rico...

Lord of battles wrote:If only it was free I would get it..

If $3 doesn't sound reasonable, there's a legit torrent right here http://catalystgamelabs.com/download/resources/CAT31000a_Leviathans_LtManual.pdf.torrent

lord_blackfang wrote:

Lord of battles wrote:If only it was free I would get it..

If $3 doesn't sound reasonable, there's a legit torrent right here http://catalystgamelabs.com/download/resources/CAT31000a_Leviathans_LtManual.pdf.torrent

Thank you!

For painting/modeling the stuff coming out of Warlord and Perry is second to none.

http://www.thewarstore.com/WarlordECWPikeShot.html



http://www.thewarstore.com/PerryBros28mmPlastics.html



Neither is a period I'm interested in but both are spectacular.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:For painting/modeling the stuff coming out of Warlord and Perry is second to none.

http://www.thewarstore.com/WarlordECWPikeShot.html



http://www.thewarstore.com/PerryBros28mmPlastics.html



Neither is a period I'm interested in but both are spectacular.

Nice quality figs, but I just can't help laughing at those hats.

The torrent didnt work... :(

EDIT we need a sad orkmoticon
EDIT Those Hats are EPIC dont question them

Lord of battles wrote:The torrent didnt work... :(

EDIT we need a sad orkmoticon
EDIT Those Hats are EPIC dont question them

Colon, Apostrophe, Parenthesis.

The more you KNOOOOW!

Rico!

Well, I plan on buying some gamezone mini, and I'm off-and-on working on some rules for a standalone 40k based skirmish game...

Does anyone know of a US e-tailer that sales Secrets of the Third Reich? I can only find it UK style

I have to admit, I found myself spending some time browsing the forum with reference to Flames of War the other day. There definitely seems to be plenty of choice out there.

there are so many games out there to try, it all depends on what you are looking for.

even though black tree designs has a bad rep of never delivering things on a timely manner. I actually took a plunge and bought myself some WWII germans. For $49 (which included the shipping) I received over 51 nice quality cast no flash models. That included characters, lmgs, smgs, mortars, etc

Which I will be using for both Secrets of the Third Reich (platoon level game) and AE WWII (skirmish). Even if you add the cost of BOTH rulebooks its still less than $150.

Pulp city is also a popular game because you can have nice full games with only 2-3 miniatures a side at about $8-10 a miniature AND a free downloadable rulebook on the site. You can pick up a handful of villians/superheros for $60-$80 and have two fully playable forces.

Don't forget that Secrets of the Third Reich also has "Doomsday" coming out soon, the expansion. I'd also like to take this time to pimp out the AWESOME sculpts of Infinity and the gorgeous nature of the rulebook.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

te3b0r wrote:Does anyone know of a US e-tailer that sales Secrets of the Third Reich? I can only find it UK style

So far, I haven't really found any. The Warstore is taking preorders for "Incursion" however.

Kanluwen wrote:So far, I haven't really found any. The Warstore is taking preorders for "Incursion" however.

Dag nabit!!! I think I shall bug Neal and see if he will at least look into this. I am very interested in this game and with the conversion rate it is scaring me off

Yeah, I've been thinking about pestering my local store to see if we can start having an "order day" where we take the orders and then just mass buy everything for everyone interested at once.

warpcrafter wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:For painting/modeling the stuff coming out of Warlord and Perry is second to none.

http://www.thewarstore.com/WarlordECWPikeShot.html

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/ekmps/shops/warlord/images/ecw_infantry_sprue_back(1).jpg

http://www.thewarstore.com/PerryBros28mmPlastics.html

http://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/fn/fn100/Full%20box%20contents.jpg
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/fn/fn100/French%20skirm%20and%20command.jpg
Neither is a period I'm interested in but both are spectacular.

Nice quality figs, but I just can't help laughing at those hats.

HOW DARE YOU!

Napoleonics was the Golden Age of military millinery.

That and Samurai Japan, of course.

Kanluwen wrote:Yeah, I've been thinking about pestering my local store to see if we can start having an "order day" where we take the orders and then just mass buy everything for everyone interested at once.

Well I am a hell of a lot closer to Raleigh then NY so if your group ever does this let me know and I will make the journey or at least get it ordered via proxy or something

Hah. If you haven't checked out Hangar 18 Hobbies yet, I highly suggest it. We've got a yahoo group for the store too, since they just opened last month. /shamelessplug off

I buy most of my gear direct from the game compnay. WW and John over at Secrets Of The Third Reich are really good people to work with. No issues with them. Templates, books, etc. good selection, good delivery.

I get some great finds from the War Store, and from FRG games.

Those Perry Games, Any chance of them having a sharps rifles box in thier Napolean Game? Those guys that they have there really harken back to the first run of the empire guys from the first or second boxed set. Great detail for that scale!!!

The more I see from them the more impressed I am. Anyone played this one yet? whats the low down on thier games?