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I found this ridiculously hilarious so had to post it here for us dakkites to share....

.................................................................

Imagine you're driving down a street and up ahead is an intersection. The traffic light turns yellow, and since you're going pretty fast, you decide to step on the gas to make it before it changes to red.

Then a cop stops you. Confused, you ask him why.

"All of us cops in this part of town got together and decided, running the yellow is illegal," he tells you.

"But...but why?" you stammer.

"Because not everyone has a car that can accelerate quickly enough to make it before it turns red. It's not fair to the other motorists who also want to get to their destination quickly and don't have a car like yours," he explains.

Shocked, you looked down at your car, a 2004 Honda Civic. "But sir, it's not like this is a Corvette or a Ferrari, it's just a Honda."

"Corvette? Ferrari? Son, those cars aren't even ALLOWED to drive in this part of town, unless maybe they agreed to having their transmission broken."

"Their transmission broken?" you ask.

"Well yeah, to keep them from getting past second gear. How else are you going to make sure they don't go too fast?" he tells you, in a tone of voice that makes it clear you're clearly slowed for not knowing that.

"But, that's unconstitutional! You can't make laws, you're cops!" you say, horrified and angry.

"The Constitution is not perfect, so we make sure we fix it so everyone else can live happily under it. After all, that's what the creators wanted, right? For everyone to be happy? We know what they really meant what they wrote it, and we know they made mistakes, but that's ok, that's what we're here for," he explains to you as if you were a child.

"That's bs, that's not what you're here for!"

"Well, all of the cops in this part of town agree, and so do a lot of people who follow our new laws, and if you don't like it, you're obviously wrong and a criminal. Please step out of the vehicle," he tells you, reaching for his gun.

"What the feth? This is flying rodent gak crazy!" you yell, revving up the engine to make a run for it.

"Son, I don't believe I like your tone of voice. You wouldn't be questioning my authority, would you? That's also a crime around these here parts..."

Did this slip through a wormhole from 2002? By that, I thought that complaining about comp in tournaments is about a relevant these days as railing against the Hapsburgs. Sure, both are still technically alive, but in no way relevant.

Still though, you have to applaud analogizing a custom in a community for deciding competitions to unconstitutional actions by the State. There's drama, high drama, internet drama... and finally YTTH drama.

I'll be so glad when people realize YTTH isn't relevant, and eventually stop referring to that site.

GG

Ironic commentary from a guy who spends a lot of time telling others how they're playing wrong.

And yeah, is comp even a relevant topic in the 40k scene anymore?

gorgon wrote:And yeah, is comp even a relevant topic in the 40k scene anymore?

In some places, yes.

Austrlian tournament organisers are still clinging doggedly to it.

Got to agree about Comp.

All your doing is changing what constitutes a powerlist.

Kind of annoys me when my local club does a lot of Tourny practice, and like to have comped lists for 'practice'.

Buggers up some of my Themed lists a treat that does, to the point where I can't take them at all. Been running a Beastly Dark Elf army for 5 or 6 years now, and all of a sudden I can't take two Hydras. Fair enough I suppose, as they are filth. But to then extend it to not being allowed to take Bolt Throwers and a Hydra? Whats the point?

up here in the new england area i've never played in a non-ardboyz tournament without comp. and I for one am greatful for it. Judge scored comp, with 3/4 judges, that is. Player scored comp is just a problem waiting to happen... people have no idea how to properly score armies.

edit- I suppose I should define comp here, as it is applied up here.

you take a varied army with a variety of choices from your codex, that conforms to a theme. repetition is allowed within the theme, but only to a certain extent. examples:

a poor comp army would be 2 lash princes/plague marines/9 oblits.

a good comp army would be a lash prince/lash sorc/ noise marines / 3 oblits / vinidcator / defiler.

still good, still has 2 lashes and alot of blast weapons, but it shows variety of unit choice, and a slaaneshi theme in the troops/HQ section of the army...



another example... if your playing eldar, and you go mechanized, fine. Don't take 4 min squads of dire avengers in serpents though, you'll get hammered for comp. take a unit of storm guardians in one, a unit of dire avengers in another, and maybe a squad of rangers to hold your home objective, depending on your craftworld theme.

A good rule to go by to getting a good themed army:

If you have multiple units duplicated, ask yourself these questions:
Can another unit in my codex fill the same role? If so, mix it up and take the other unit in addition to the one unit you wanted to take.
Is my unit at max size? Maybe I should combine 2 min sized units into a larger one.

Also, a word on special characters.... Taking one is fine, just make sure your army is themed for the character. Don't take prince yriel unless you have lots of wraiths/wraithlords... don't take eldrad unless you have lots of guardians, ect. Don't take lysander in a land raider/terminator heavy army... things like that. Also, don't take conflicting special characters. Taking eldrad+ yriel is a big no no, they are from different craftworlds. Taking vulkan + tigurius is a problem, they are from different chapters. Taking calgar + tigurius is fine though, as long as your doing an ultramarines army.

IF your list is codex legal play it.

If mine is codex legal then STFU ...

Horst wrote:up here in the new england area i've never played in a non-ardboyz tournament without comp. and I for one am greatful for it. Judge scored comp, with 3/4 judges, that is. Player scored comp is just a problem waiting to happen... people have no idea how to properly score armies.

Still don't see the need.

The guys played in one where you had to submit your list beforehand to be approved. Even then I think it's far too much messing around.

see above edit ^^

Horst wrote: Taking eldrad+ yriel is a big no no, they are from different craftworlds. Taking vulkan + tigurius is a problem, they are from different chapters.

Going by GW's current stance on Special Characters (namely, that taking a given special character and using his rules for your own army is perfectly acceptable) I can't say I agree with this completely.

Ignoring the fact that, themewise, it would be reasonably easy to come up with a fluff explanation for Eldrad and Yriel, or Vulkan and Tigurius to be in the same force, it's perfectly acceptable (at least so far as GW are concerned) to take not-Vulkan and I-Can't-Believe-He's-Not-Tigurius, paint them up in your own Chapter colours and include the both of them in your army. Thus removing the problem of them being from different Chapters.


I've always hated the 'no duplication' aspect of most comp systems as well, since for some armies it does fit the theme to have multiples of the same units.

Not to mention that in some cases duplication is (or at least was under older codexes) almost required in order to actually get a legal army. When Orks start being penalised for having multiple squads of Boys, you know that Comp's got a little out of hand.

If only all people treated Tournaments as a method of finding and playing new opponents, rather than the minority of cock wavers, we wouldn't need such a discussion.

Either hold your Tournament with pre-set lists, or leave it to Codex Legal stuff.

orks aren't penalized for taking multiple squads of boyz...

take a squad of 30 boyz with big shootas
take another 30 boyz with rokkits
then 30 shoota boyz with big shootas
than 30 shoota boyz with rokkits
then 30 'ardboyz
then some nobz.

boom, just filled your 6 troop choices with no problem.

I just go to play and have fun. I typically play a themed army in tournaments. I dont complain about cheesy lists or over powered or whatnot. I enjoy all people i play there only have been a handful that i havent enjoyed but that was for reasons such as taking too much time on their turn or rules bickering for their advantage so on and so forth. I enjoy trying to figure out how to beat my opponent or how i could have beaten him if i lose.

Horst wrote:orks aren't penalized for taking multiple squads of boyz...

Under your system, perhaps. I've seen comp systems where simply taking two of the same unit type got you docked.

insaniak wrote:

Horst wrote:orks aren't penalized for taking multiple squads of boyz...

Under your system, perhaps. I've seen comp systems where simply taking two of the same unit type got you docked.

Well of course, we all know that Marines never go to battle with more than one tactical squad, and guard don't deploy more than one platoon of infantry!

Necrons are properly fethed then innit?

Horst wrote:orks aren't penalized for taking multiple squads of boyz...

take a squad of 30 boyz with big shootas
take another 30 boyz with rokkits
then 30 shoota boyz with big shootas
than 30 shoota boyz with rokkits
then 30 'ardboyz
then some nobz.

boom, just filled your 6 troop choices with no problem.

BOOM you just made a list that doesn't support itself and is not codex legal unless you get to tell me which HQ to pick. You also made me spend 340 points on a 220 point squad and 90 points on upgrades which i don't want to take for the sake of your idiotic concept of what is and is not "fluffy". Since when is using The Green Tide not fluffy the entire point of ork boyz is they suck and get mowed down by the dozens on route to something to slaughter in cc, but sheer numbers let them get there regardless.

This post was a response to another post on the WarhammerAU site.

The original post came as a response to someone in Australia who wanted to bring 4 land raiders to a 1200 point game and a lot of posters said that he should not do it because if he does he will have 6 miserable games and because that type of army either will win big or lose big and skill will have little to do with it.

What people fail to realize is that there are different war gaming cultures around the world, and Australians are a very comp friendly people. Most of the posts are Americans saying that comp is stupid but you can’t impose what you like to play on others. In the US there are pockets of comp friendly areas and they have the most fun doing it like that. If the Aussies want to play that way, and everyone ahead of time knows it, let them.

I have no issues with comp if it is either a checklist as a one time thing in the tourny or done by the judges, but some armies like necrons or BT have very little in the way of choices.

some people will see a BT Mechanized list with the EC a marshal, termies in an LRC 3 crusader squads in rhinos and a couple of predators as bad comp, but, we have one troop choice, one, so if we have several troops units there is likely going to be a similar unit there, I see the asme thing happening to necrons and maybe some of the others codex's with limited choices in tropps or other sections of the FOC.

http://www.daboyzgt.com/gt09/Final%20Comp.htm

comp used at the local tournament by me. gave fair scores imo.

Comp limits fun. By forcing a comp on me you have hindered my concept of fun and fluff. Comp does nothing for balance, on changes what armies are on top. As for fluff it kills it too. The game spans 10k years. To say what I have isnt fluffy is to say that in 10k years of constant war, this formation never battled.

comp limits fun. I hear this alot. people say "comp limits how much fun I can have"

well, what if I considered murder fun. Are laws that hinder my fun wrong?

when people adopt this kind of attitude, It is extremely selfish. The idea of comp is to create a common ground between those who enjoy armies that make sense working together, and those who enjoy building a list that ignores established fluff and is designed to just flat out stomp people.

Of course at some point in 10,000 years of constant war things, wierd were probably fielded that were unconventional. However, this does not make your fateweaver + bloodcrusher list fluffy. it does not make your 9 oblit list fluffy. instances like this were probably exceedingly rare in the fluff, and obviously show a desire to win without regard to established storylines.

Are you honestly going to sit here and compare a game of plastic men to the murder of another human being?

You just lost all credibility to the argument in my eyes.

I could use any argument that involves ignoring other people's enjoyment for your own. I just chose a jarringly different one.

Polonius wrote:I thought that complaining about comp in tournaments is about a relevant these days as railing against the Hapsburgs.

There's drama, high drama, internet drama... and finally YTTH drama.

Comp is religion, and thus inarguable. Either you believe, or you don't. Regardless, the opposing viewpoint is utter and irredeemable heresy.

The last note was as funny as true.

Everyone in this thread needs to calm down.



Argue the points, not the poster.

And keep in mind that over the top comparisons usually don't go over so well, for whatever reason, in Internet Discussions.

Usually.

but... but... alpharius, they aren't agreeing with me!

how can I get them to bow down and acknowledge my argument is correct unless I attack them directly? I won every debate in school by telling people to go f' themselves, and I can't see the flaw in that strategy!

Wheres Calvin... off doing a number one on something i suppose.

Perhaps many of you are talking past each other or assuming that the other party desires/disdains comp for nefarious reasons. I think there is a common ground that everyone can agree on;

Playing unique armies in tournaments is a good/fun experience.
Playing cookie-cutter lists that consist of the same units on each table is a bad/boring experience.

If everyone can agree with that, then the discussion will be less personal and more focused on how to achieve it. Possibilities;

1. Each codex will be perfectly balanced with all units having appropriate points/rules/in game viability. I consider this impossible.
2. Make the theme/appearance/unique score a large percentage of the overall. I consider this the best option.
3. Enforce comp based simply on what units are taken. I consider this a bad remedy that leads to more issues.


Given 2, you could take the standard 2 lash/PM/Oblit list and suffer no penalty....provided you did something with your army to make it unique. Presentation, modeling, conversion, story, whatever it takes to make it stand out. Now obviously, this theme/unique aspect would be more difficult when Billy Bob, Joey and Frank are running the same army down the table....but this is where the score would be self correcting. Armies that consist of less seen units (Havocs, Tzeentch lists, etc) would be easy to make thematic while perhaps more difficult to make competitive. No one is punished while the players providing variety to the tournament are rewarded.

Instead of a 'Comp restriction' grant players a 'Unique Score'. Thoughts?