Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Mekboy wrote:Okay then Airman, who have you investigated? And what were the results?

Sadly my investigations have been foiled by a genestealer mangus, but I believe that the mangus is BrotherStynier.
Here are my reasons:
1. BotherStynier was the one that dropped "the hammer" on Arheiner.
2. The whole "my subtle assassin" could have been BrotherStynier telling the other genestealer that Thor665 was a assassin.
3. On day one BrotherStyner unvoted not_u and then voted mekboy without any reason.
4. Gornall put BrotherStynier on his "suspicious list" but didn't vote to lynch him.
5. Thor665 said

If you think I'm being your "subtle assassin" somehow then please come out and state how my push on Arheiner and feelings of suspicion towards Mekboy, Gornall, and you somehow makes me the master of a giant plot to get you to vote for Arheiner so I can lynch you on Day 3. This is an incredibly scummy post you're making and is an appeal to emotion without any sort of supply of reasoning or logic. I really see no reason for you to post like you have if you are a loyalist.

What, all of your attempts? That sounds remarkably unlucky. Or maybe a bad cover-up?

Well played Stynier... Well played... FOR TRAITOROUS SCUM!!!

You act argumentative the entire time, making very little actual contribution to our cause. Then when you sense that things might be turning against you (off of Arnheiner) you drop the hammer on Arnheiner, even as Thor is questioning you, rather than giving him time for the conversation to run its course (as compared to me, who didn't drop the hammer vote because I wanted to give more time to dicuss things). Then, as you know if Thor survives the night, he will continue his questioning of you, especially as Arnheiner turned out to be innocent. Therefore you have him killed to cover your tracks. Luck smiled on you in that he was also an assassin, so you killed a flock of birds with one stone. Not only can you cast doubt on me from my earlier encounters with Thor, but you also can claim to be the Inquisitor and state after the fact that your poor choice of words about subtle assassins was in fact actually reaching out to him. Further, because you claimed first, now anyone else claiming looks desperate. Overall, it looks like a winning proposition for you, as you assumed you needed only one more innocent lynch to win.

However, several things happened that threw your plans into complete disarray. First off, you did not count on a Night Lord Cultist in our midst. “How do you know that there is one?” you might ask. I know there is one, because I happen to know Airman and Stynier are BOTH lying. I am THE Inquisitor. My first investigation was into EF who died. I wanted to investigate Thor, but I figured given his logical nature, it would be unlikely for the genestealers to let him live through the night. Therefore, I went with EF, as he had been very vocal and I needed to know where I could trust him or not. My second investigation was into Mekboy, as I still suspected him for his hammer on Vulkan. Since he had avoided the lynch, but still had suspicions on him, I figured he would be less likely to get night-killed. I still suspected him, so I wanted to know where he stood. He came back as a loyal citizen.

Because I am the Inquisitor, I know that both Airman and Stynier are lying. However, they are both taking positions that are mutually exclusive, meaning both are on different teams. This means that one has to be a Genestealer (which I believe to be Stynier because his actions make the most sense) and the other has to be a Night Lord Cultist (which fits against Thor as an Assassin). Stynier thought that by claiming to be the inquisitor, he could get me lynched. I argue that he probably thought Thor was the only pro-town role or that even if another Inquisitor was present, by claiming first he could win the debate. What still confuses me is why Airman came out to declare himself as an Inquisitor after seeing Stynier’s post. If he is indeed a Night Lord Cultist as I suspect, if he believed Stynier to be the genuine article, he would be better off staying quiet and letting a genestealer be lynched so he would have fewer threats against him. If he believed Stynier to be a genestealer, then my only idea is that he thought it would flush the real inquisitor out and still possibly get a genestealer killed. That way, the genestealers have to go after the inquisitor or risk being found out and he is free to go after a genestealer. I’ll be the first to admit it’s flimsy, but it’s a lot more plausible than “I got blocked every round by a Magus who would have no idea that I was an inquisitor…”.

What all this means is that I believe Stynier to be a Genestealer, Airman a Night Lord, and by process of elimination, Not_U to be Stynier’s partner. His "doubt" of Stynier is obviously a ploy to remove a connection between the two of them if their plans today go sour. That way if we (as in Mekboy and I) were to manage to lynch a genestealer today, the survivor would be less likely to be lynched tommorrow, giving them a better chance of victory. If people look back at both Stynier’s and Not_U’s past actions (voting patterns and behavior) they shall find all the evidence they need. Not_U was the only person to vote for both lynches and has been cryptic and hasn't provided hardly any useful input. Stynier dropped the hammer fast and has been argumentative and all over the place with his logic and voting.

What makes this difficult however, is given that there are 3 factions, two factions must work together to get a lynch. If no one is lynched or a genestealer (Stynier or Not_U) is lynched, then the genestealer(s) and night lord fight it out tonight and who knows what the outcome is. It wouldn’t look good for us unless we killed a genestealer, Airman kills the remaining one, and we lynch Airman tomorrow. If we lynch Airman the Night Lord, then the genestealers automatically win. If I am lynched, then the genestealers win. Therefore our only chance of survival is to kill a genestealer.
Because of this I Vote for Stynier .

Wow. Any other inquisitors want to pop up out of the woodwork?

Just reading your last sentance. Interesting how you managed to forget me. A slip of the tongue maybe. But nevertheless, suspicious. You say you know I'm innocent. But you would know that if you were a genestealer.

Here's my thought. An airman-Gornall pairing. The two of us that, according to him, must survive.

Vote: Airman

Well played Gornall.

Well airman, it's now pretty much a given that you're anti-imperium. There are two reasons to claim to be the inquisitor:
Actually being the inquisitor.
Being a 'stealer/heretic who is trying to misdirect us.

And I'm sorry but your excuse doesn't hold up.

Mekboy wrote:Well airman, it's now pretty much a given that you're anti-imperium. There are two reasons to claim to be the inquisitor:
Actually being the inquisitor.
Being a 'stealer/heretic who is trying to misdirect us.

And I'm sorry but your excuse doesn't hold up.

What about reason number three: being a citizen who's lying to save himself.

If you're a citizen, then you shouldn't pretend to be an inquisitor to save yourself, as the real inquisitor will call you out and get you lynched.

Mekboy wrote:If you're a citizen, then you shouldn't pretend to be an inquisitor to save yourself, as the real inquisitor will call you out and get you lynched.

I didn't say I was a citizen. I just said that some people might do that.

I never said you were a citizen, either.

It sounded like you said I was a citizen.

Mekboy wrote:Wow. Any other inquisitors want to pop up out of the woodwork?

Just reading your last sentance. Interesting how you managed to forget me. A slip of the tongue maybe. But nevertheless, suspicious. You say you know I'm innocent. But you would know that if you were a genestealer.

Here's my thought. An airman-Gornall pairing. The two of us that, according to him, must survive.

Vote: Airman

Obviously you must be the other Inquisitor Mekboy.

I am pleased that you are under the assumption that Airman and Gornall may be the genestealer scum, you have every right to suspect me yet chose them. This could make it seem like we are the ones working together, to the one other person that may be I only would like to know why it is you choose to split the votes between them? Could you in fact be one of them pretending to side with me, but choosing not to vote for your true partner?

@Gornall I find your claim to be a member of the most intriguing, coming out claiming to be the "true" Inquisitor after another imposter had already attempted to claim my title certainly shows commitment to your cause. Your claim that on the first night you investigated EF to be almost correct, you did pay the poor man a visit the first night, a visit which ended with you and your partner claiming the live of EF. Also I would like to know where the idea that there is a Night Lords Aspirant amongst us came from? The first post clearly states;

Lord-Loss wrote:I will verify that there is at least one pro-town role (like an Inquisitor or Doctor) and that there are two Genestealers in your midst.

Now not only have you, in your own words, put yourself at EF's room the night he was killed, but you also have made the error of claiming a role that was not even hinted at in the first post. Before you mention that "you are the inquisitor" and that's how you know he is a Night Lord Aspirant, I would like you to show me where in this thread Lord-Loss claimed there may be an additional Anti-Citizen role other than the Genestealers.

Acting argumentative the whole time? For the first while I engaged in the same acts of random questioning that you did as well, then I quickly quieted myself. In the first round of voting I did not vote for Vulkan, something you did do, that was a hunt you started. You counted on his inexperience, and possibly a "Accidental" vote from your partner to kill him, should Mekboy turn out to be your partner. As for the killing or Anrheiner, it was necessary in order to help identify you. You also fail to take into account that I would be more than aware of the fact that if Thor died in the night (going along with my vote for Anrheiner) I would become prime suspect the next day something that a genestealer, like yourself, would wish to avoid. It is then knowing that the death of Thor would help to drive the others against me, you then saw the perfect opportunity to set me up in a way that would allow you a quick victory.

The one thing you did not count on was me being the Inquisitor, you probably hoped that not only was Thor the one person who's death would assure you victory, but was also the Inquisitor. You hoped that his death would prevent him from learning that I was infact a loyalist. What I think how ever is that you either prevented a quick victory for yourself, in that he was unable to kill me in the night because he may not have gotten my hint and suspected me. Him killing me would have helped you. Now you are scrambling to try and make up for that mistake, hoping that the one person who you knew you could easily set up, who is also the true Inquisitor does not gain the support he needs to kill you.

Once again, I was the first vote on Vulkan in the RANDOM voting phase. What happened next was beyond my control, so I think that is hardly evidence that I'm a genestealer. Your hammer vote when under pressure from Thor is much more damning. You further say that Thor's death is proof of a setup, when it could just as easily be you covering your tracks.

As for my "mistake" of there being another anti-town role, it is the only plausible explanation for Airman's actions. Why else would he claim to be a second/third inquisitor?

Well I supose I have to pick a side eventually in this as I am actually the Inquisitor as well (joking).

Although it does seem like Styner honestly thinks that Gornall is the traitor, I just don't see the proof. He just simply claims to be the Inquisitor and says that he is. If he could just back it up, if he really knows that he is he'll be able to find all the evidence to point to it. However to me Airman seems to be the more suspicious one. He also claimed to be an Inquisitor, but it's even more unlikely than Styner being the Inquisitor. Call it flawed logic if you will, but I think Airman is probably one of the Genesteallers.

Vote: Airman

Unvote Stynier
Vote Airman

Gornall smiles and grabs Airman in a bear hug, Stynier just stands there, looking confused. Mekboy gets a knife from his belt and slices Airmans stomach open. Gornall lets Airman go. Dropping him on the floor, so he can die from loss of blood.


In Airman pockets, you find a book titled 'A guide to be being a fake Inqusitor' and some money.

Airman was a Imperial Citizen

You all turn around, going back to your room for the night. Gornall and N0t_u lag behind. BrotherStynier looks furious, he turns around to tell Gornall and N0t_u to hurry up. But a clawed hand grabs his face, and with inhuman strengh, smashes it down, upon the floor. Mekboy run for the exit, but N0t_u is already waiting. Mekboy screams as N0t_u teeth find the soft flesh of his throat.

With 4 left, the Genestealers, would have killed an citizen in night, then have lynched the remaining citizen in the next day phase

GAME ENDS, GENESTEALER VICTORY!

Nom nom....

Just as planned.




At first I honestly thought I would have been killed on Day 1. Styner was close but gave up and went to Mekboy instead. So that was probably luck, just like this last one was. We needed just one person to vote for a non-Genestealler, if you had believed styner and all voted for Gornall it seems likely that the Imperium would have won. As it wouldn't take much to figure out the other one based on elimination alone, the remaining Genestealler would be outnumbered and it would be fairly difficult to manage to win.

That was a pretty close game and it was fun. Good game everyone

Very good game! Echoing Not_U's remarks, I thought I was dead on Day 2 when Thor figured me out. I was too excited on Day 1 and really wanted more people to post (I'm tied to my computer in my home office because of work, so I'm on here quiet a bit).

I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts and I'll do a full breakdown of my thought process later tonight.

Damn it, I'd known you were suspicious since halfway through day 2 and then forgot about it to try and save myself.

so gornal and not_u were genestealers well played ive been watching and and guessing since i was out and never suspected not_u
well played

Goddam!
I got played :(

Until Day 2 I was sure that Mekboy was guilty, and I was sorta shifty around Thor. Then I figured on a Airman/Mekboy pairing. But I watched this thread carefully and I cheered as Gornall posted. I truly felt that he was the champion of the Imperial cuase. I feel so...betrayed now.

That was a lot of fun, even though I died early.

Gornall wrote:Very good game! Echoing Not_U's remarks, I thought I was dead on Day 2 when Thor figured me out. I was too excited on Day 1 and really wanted more people to post (I'm tied to my computer in my home office because of work, so I'm on here quiet a bit).

I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts and I'll do a full breakdown of my thought process later tonight.

I knew you were dicey. The problem was I just didn't have enough of Day 1 to get a clear read on you (that really did help the scum to have such a short day to prevent a lot of early reads), so it wasn't till the end of Day 2 I was really being fairly certain about you and/or Stynier (I was just wrong on Arheiner, though I was fairly confident Mekboy was innocent which was why I kept trying to ease the dogs off of him and I figured even if I was wrong on Arhny it would help me peg you or Stynier)). I also wish somebody had backed me with some pressure on you earlier on Day 2 as I think we could have got some better reads off of you, but the Mekboy wagon was so potent it was hard to keep any interest on ol' Gornall and his odd postings. Clearly my scum read on Stynier was more of a trying to fly under radar Inquisitor read - sometimes I do seem to have a bad habit of confusing the two. I hadn't got a clear read off of n0t_u yet, so he was doing an excellent job of not setting off any of my scum tell detectors.

I have no idea what airman was plotting with the false roleclaim - thanks to that on Day 3 I was pretty sure it was some sort of weird Gornall/airman pairing (and I couldn't figure why they'd both role claim), and I'd been getting town reads off airman all game so I would have been *very* confused by that point. Airman, what were you thinking with false claiming as Inquisitor? It is generally accepted that falseclaims are not a good pro-town action, and your claim helped weaken Stynier's fairly obvious Inquisitor claim.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Goddam!
Until Day 2 I was sure that Mekboy was guilty, and I was sorta shifty around Thor. Then I figured on a Airman/Mekboy pairing. But I watched this thread carefully and I cheered as Gornall posted. I truly felt that he was the champion of the Imperial cuase. I feel so...betrayed now.

That was a lot of fun, even though I died early.

A good game. I have to admit with the pressure you came in early with on me I was really suspicious of you. You were basically using the same arguments against me that Manchu had used in the Drk_O game, and Manchu had been scum and I'd called him out for those arguments. I'm actually (and don't take this a bad way) happy Gornall and n0t_u killed you when they did or I probably would have been left barking up the wrong tree on Day 2 since I would have been very focused on you. clearly we were not sending the best signals to each other.

This was a very good game overall, some interesting play on both sides and overall a good level of conversation from multiple players which is always key.

Arheiner wrote:Damn it, I'd known you were suspicious since halfway through day 2 and then forgot about it to try and save myself.

Oooh, and just on basic Genestealer game theory I have to call attention to this.

This is one of the reasons I keep harping that the job of vanilla Imperium is not to survive, their job is to catch Genestealers. It's hard to do, but you have to focus on making sure your goal is to root out those who seem suspicious over any generalized actions to save yourself (though of course there are exceptions - for instance if you and someone else are both at L-1 and you're vanilla Imperium, you probably want to lynch that other person over maybe your top suspect because at least there's a chance they're scum, and you know you're not)

Day 1: We both wanted to fly under the radar and just sow confusion/discord as much as possible without bringing too much attention on ourselves. As I already mentioned, I was overly excited about this game and was talking too much. That and I wasn't a fan of the story arugment, as I think those don't help anyone's cause at all. Also, I've been vocal in previous games, so I thought it was important to keep consistent. I got lucky in my initial vote for Vulkan as he made himself an easy target and Mekboy did pull the trigger early, which would prove to be useful.

Night 1: We knew Stynier and Thor would be our biggest concerns because of their past performances. I was overly concerned about the doctor role possibly protecting Thor, so I convinced Not_U (against his better judgement) to go after EF and try and pin it on Thor because of their argument. In hindsight, I shoulda listened to Not_U. We then determined that we wouldn't help each other if we were in trouble on the next day, so there wouldn't be a link later.

Day 2: Started out perfectly with Airman wondering aloud if Thor had EF killed. I also threw out the idea of Mekboy lynching very quickly. Not_U prodded Airman to continue on with his suspicions (with no luck). At that point, I pushed on Mekboy a little too hard and got jumped on by Thor. I barely managed to talk my way out of it, but had to be very cautious from that point on. I wanted to make my actions seem plausible and throw out just enough doubt that it would give people alternatives, but not so much that it looked like I was throwing people under the bus to save myself.

The one bright spot was that Arnheiner defended Mekboy, something we were able to leverage to get two trains going. I was really hoping for a Mekboy lynch, as several said they suspected Arnheiner in multiple pairings, so he would be a viable canidate for the next day. I tried to throw out there that if someone at L-1 knows they're innocent, they should take the opportunity to lynch the other person, hoping Mekboy or Arnheiner would lynch the other. When that didn't happen, I threw out there that I was thinking about switching to vote for Arnheiner. However, I realized that would shine a big beacon on Not_U and I as we both had voted for Vulkan, so both of us voting for an innocent again wouldn't be good, especially if we wanted to kill Thor. Luckily, I was able to say I wanted Arnheiner to defend himself (hopefully throwing out more accusations). This put some pressure on Stynier (I'm assuming) which lead to a great fight between him and Thor and a quick lynch. These would be perfect to use the next day. I'm interested to hear whether Thor figured out Arnheiner's code.

Night 2: Thor had to die. Pretty much all there was to it. We were still worried about a doctor role, but figured Stynier wouldn't use it on Thor if he was. Because Mekboy hadn't tried harder to save himself, I didn't think he was a special role. We decided that if someone got fingered by the inquisitor, they should just counter claim, say they investigated the other two loyalists and found them to be innocents and hope for the best. We went into the day knowing we only needed one "wrong" vote and we could pounce and be done with it.

Day 3: Egads! Stynier figured me out! Even though Not_U decided to defend me a little more strongly than I would have liked, I was going to stick to the plan. It actually looked pretty dang nice (I sent the speech to LL) as I stated I investigated Airman on Night 1 as he was likely to survive it and Mekboy on Night 2 because he had managed to survive that day's lynch. Overall, I think it looked pretty dang nice. However, Airman went and threw a wrench in everything!

When he posted, I was going "WTF!". I couldn't see why he would lie (and we knew he was lying becaue of no Magus). The only thing that made any sense at all was the Night Lord thing. I honestly thought that he was one. So that's what I sold. I figured that if I got lynched, it would look like a bad attempt to cover Airman, possibly leading to him getting lynched before Not_U (who I had thrown under the bus). When Mekboy went for Airman, it just came down to catching Not_U online and dropping the hammer.

Overall, what do you think the baddies could have done better Thor? I know I should have kept my mouth in check more. But what about target selecction and general conversations?

Yeah... I can't say enough how Not_U was one tricky SOB. I think he could have pulled it off if we had to have went another day.

He didn't seem to do anything but it was our mistake to completely ignore him as he was in a comfortable position all game.

@Thor, I was going to vote for Gornall but then everyone went at me and Mekboy so he was going to come under questioning after us.

Double post for the fail.

Gornall wrote:Overall, what do you think the baddies could have done better Thor? I know I should have kept my mouth in check more. But what about target selecction and general conversations?

I will say you probably had a good basic idea going into Day 1 of not wanting to change up your meta (it's how I pegged scum Manchu in Drk_O's game really). In the grand scheme to achieve more victories for whichever side you play you want your gameplay to be the same whether or not you are scum or townie. So, you had a good basic plan, you just may not have executed it to perfection as there were a few things that sent up warning flags for me.

I may guardedly agree with you on your logic for not killing me Night 1 (I was surprised I lived though) because you're right. Previous players with solid play capability records like Stynier and I are good targets to kill early, but with the presence of a Doc/Psyker you have to be careful because they can be an early defense choice as well, and nothing messes up scum quicker then missed night kills.

I think considering the heat that EF and I had between ourselves I would have left us both alive. It's hard to get someone lynched simply because they had a beef with someone who was nightkilled - but EF and I clearly had a lot of mistrust and were picking up on tells from each other that were not real. that's pure gold for scum because then you can let us tear into each other the next Day Phase and have a nice assured lynch of an innocent.

That's about the worst I can say about your guys' play though, as other then that you did quite well. n0t_u showed some real improvement to his gameplay style as I was getting zero reads off of him (it'll be really dangerous when he can learn to always give off some basic town reads, as then I might never be able to sniff him out). You also had some major nice things go your way with the speedy Day 1 and the airman claim that really helped slow down the Imperium's ability to get a clear read of the situation (I loved your play as the third Inquisitor by that point, it threw so much gak up in the air that you were practically assured a mislynch at that point - excellent move).

@Arheiner - yeah, it's always rough on your first exposure to the game to end up being an early suspect. Really it's my fault too, as I was the one who blew the whistle on you (really as a compromise candidate from Mekboy and to try to help me figure out the Stynier/Gornall question). For the most part you did treat your impending lynch quite well - as you did try to keep expressing your ideas about other suspects to a degree (though i wish you'd answered airman when he kept asking why you found him so suspicious). But overall you were communicative and tried some functional and good responses to being lynched, which was really good play for a vanilla townie at that point in time.