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Orks certainly believe that their gods are the most powerful, the truth of that is anyone's guess.

As for the tactical acumen of orks, certainly they come pre-equipped with the sort of knowledge that it would take many years for a human to be taught but they are not as all powerful as some posters might like to paint.

That is the advantage of orks though; they are bred easily and whilst growing below ground are almost impossible to spot allowing them to reach near maturity without difficulty and when they do emerge they do so with a working knowledge of machines (basically weaponry) and the kind of low cunning you need in a fight.

What it all boils down to, is that what would take a human twenty or thirty years to achieve (starting from birth), with intensive training and education an ork has within a few weeks of the spore landing in the right spot and the yoof becoming a boy.

WarrKing wrote:

Gogsnik wrote:

-Loki- wrote:I know. But I mean, a single squad of Space Marines on a planet infested with supposedly tactical equivalents... Orks should have caught them pretty quickly.

More pertinently, if Orks were born with the tactical knowledge and skill that Marines have to strive for centuries to obtain then what the hell have the Orks been doing for the last sixty million years? If the Orks were literally that good they would have conquered the entire galaxy long, long ago.

Here is my thought on this: Orks are born to fight, they know battle tactics from their ginetic coding, most just choose not to use them? Though Blood axes have used tactics in fights. Also (this is all speculation from what ive read so far in this forum) Gork and Mork are the strongest gods out there right? And only reason they keep other gods alive is for entertainment? So wouldn't that mean that they would "help" both sides of wars? If the Orks conquere the galaxy, then that would be the end to Gork and Morks fun? So they would do anything they had do to keep fights going? Even helping the enemy?

There's a difference between combat knowledge and strategic knowledge. I'm guessing Orks are born with the former. Very few Ork warlords in fluff have displayed the latter.

What have Orks been doing all these years?

Well the answer is obvious. Orks have dominated the galaxy, conquering the majority of known planets and populating hte galaxy with their race to the point where they're the most populous sentient race.

... duh?

Gogsnik wrote:it takes almost ten years of intensive therapy and physical alteration to perfect what an Ork knows instinctively!'

Cite the source for this quote. Simply saying "an official source" isn't helpful, as there's quite a few of them.

edit: In academia, using someone else's words without citation is called plagiarism So, being a college student, I place a very high emphasis on citing sources when I make direct quotes.


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-Loki- wrote:There's a difference between combat knowledge and strategic knowledge. I'm guessing Orks are born with the former. Very few Ork warlords in fluff have displayed the latter.

Oh, any Ork big enough to be called a Warlord has shown strategic knowledge.

But warbosses don't necessarily have it. Most warbosses will probably never reach the position of warlord.

Melissia wrote:

Gogsnik wrote:it takes almost ten years of intensive therapy and physical alteration to perfect what an Ork knows instinctively!'

Cite the source for this quote. Simply saying "an official source" isn't helpful, as there's quite a few of them.

edit: In academia, using someone else's words without citation is called plagiarism So, being a college student, I place a very high emphasis on citing sources when I make direct quotes.

Okay, this one is definitely from the Lukas Anzion papers in the former ork codex. I'm sure of it.

Melissia wrote:... duh?

Orks are found all over the place but they have hardly conquered the majority of the known worlds or dominated the galaxy. Codex Orks uses the phrase, 'Ork settlements have been found scattered to the furthest corners of the galaxy.' It does not say they have conquered most of the known worlds. Later the Codex says that at the close of the 41st Millennium there are more Ork empires than ever so I reiterate my point, if the 41st Millennium marks the point where there are more Ork empires than ever then they haven't really done that much in the past sixty million years. I'll repeat that, sixty million years, that's a long, long, looong time for them to have only just become more of a menace than they have been in the past. You might well have a boner for Orks but your exaggerations of their prowess are just plain silly.

edit: In academia, using someone else's words without citation is called plagiarism So, being a college student, I place a very high emphasis on citing sources when I make direct quotes.

Well I happen to have graduated from university many years ago and I can tell you that your definition of plagiarism is wrong. Plagiarism arises when you copy or imitate someone elses words or ideas and present them as your own. I never presented that quote as my own and even if I had it would have made the quote utterly redundant so I would never even have tried too.

Still though, good for you that you place such a strong emphasis on citing direct quotes, what a shame then that you rarely actually use direct quotes and rely on hyperbole instead.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Okay, this one is definitely from the Lukas Anzion papers in the former ork codex. I'm sure of it.

That actual particular sentence is from Da Uvver Book but since Lukas Anzion is in almost every source book for the Orks these days it hardly matters.

Well I happen to have graduated from university many years ago and I can tell you that your definition of plagiarism is wrong

No, you can't.

Princeton defines plagiarism as "taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own"

Directly quoting someone and then not citing them is the exact same as taking someone else's words and making them your own. And at least one person was kicked out of my English comp class years ago for doing exactly that


As for the rest, the map is in the rulebook, showing rather clearly the insanely high Ork presence in the galaxy.

-Loki- wrote:

WarrKing wrote:

Gogsnik wrote:

-Loki- wrote:I know. But I mean, a single squad of Space Marines on a planet infested with supposedly tactical equivalents... Orks should have caught them pretty quickly.

More pertinently, if Orks were born with the tactical knowledge and skill that Marines have to strive for centuries to obtain then what the hell have the Orks been doing for the last sixty million years? If the Orks were literally that good they would have conquered the entire galaxy long, long ago.

Here is my thought on this: Orks are born to fight, they know battle tactics from their ginetic coding, most just choose not to use them? Though Blood axes have used tactics in fights. Also (this is all speculation from what ive read so far in this forum) Gork and Mork are the strongest gods out there right? And only reason they keep other gods alive is for entertainment? So wouldn't that mean that they would "help" both sides of wars? If the Orks conquere the galaxy, then that would be the end to Gork and Morks fun? So they would do anything they had do to keep fights going? Even helping the enemy?

There's a difference between combat knowledge and strategic knowledge. I'm guessing Orks are born with the former. Very few Ork warlords in fluff have displayed the latter.

The majority of the Blood axes use stratagy in battles: camoflauge, tactics, ect, though they may not be as developed as some human tactics, they are still basic stratagies that they are born with right?

Melissia wrote:Princeton defines plagiarism as "taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own"

Exactly, and at no point did I ever make out that the quote was my own words and not someone elses.

Directly quoting someone and then not citing them is the exact same as taking someone else's words and making them your own.

Oh. My. God. No it isn't. Taking someone elses words and making out that they are your words and not theirs is plagiarism. Taking someone elses words and acknowledging that fact but not citing the book and page reference is not plagiarism, sloppy essay writing maybe but it ain't plagiarism and I'm not writing an essay.

As for the rest, the map is in the rulebook, showing rather clearly the insanely high Ork presence in the galaxy.

A high level of presence does not, in any way, reinforce your wild claim that Orks have conquered almost every known world in the galaxy, nor does this line of argument make anyone forget the equally absurd claim that an Ork yoof has the tactical knowledge and skill of a centuries old Astartes.

Gogsnik wrote:A high level of presence does not, in any way, reinforce your wild claim that Orks have conquered almost every known world in the galaxy

Whelp, he's started to make gak up and claim I said it, so I'm gonna go over there and put him on my ignore list now.
So anyway....

Blood Axez use tactics, but so do the other clans. They just favor different ones. For example, Goffs prefer the simple, yet surprisingly effective Ork Wave tactic, which relies on Ork numbers and biological durability to get into close combat. It actually works quite well or them, given the massive numbers that Goffs can often put into a battle.

Basically, soon after he dies, the Ork releases spores which lodge themselves in the ground and grow and a fully grown Ork eventually emerges. This is why the Imperium always burns Ork corpses quickly after the battle, so the spores are destroyed. It's the same with the 'nids. As for their ships, they just loot what they can and build very basic ships with the parts.

'nids are different, if the Tyranid win over a planet rippers are sent down to collect all biomass living and non -iving, Tyranid or non-Tyranid. This is then taken back to the hive ships to be processed in the spawning vats. Therefore in an Tyranic invasion if they are not beaten back, they gain everything back and more. orks cannot subjugate a planet the way Tyranids can, not to mention sheer size of the fleets.

That's because Tyranids don't subjugate planets, they eat them.

Every single Ork releases spores all over their life, and especially when they die. That means that Ork numbers grow exponentially-- an ork-conquered world will, even with the constant fighting (or perhaps because of it), very quickly become so infested with Orks that they turn their eyes to invade new stars, to find new battles and wars to fight. And to win.

Tyranids don't do this. They consume a limited number of resources and then move on.

Limited? They consume more of a planet than any other race would ever use. Basically, the entire biosphere. Including not only plants and animals, but minerals, oceans and other liquids, even gases. The planet is left as a bare rock in space. While they don't stay on the planet, and thus don't get the benefit of new plants and animals growing, by the time that would make a difference, they've moved on to another planet.

So yeah, technically, limited in that they don't get the benefit of growth in the biosphere. But less limited than other races in that they literally take everything.

Melissia wrote:

Gogsnik wrote:A high level of presence does not, in any way, reinforce your wild claim that Orks have conquered almost every known world in the galaxy

Whelp, he's started to make gak up and claim I said it...

You said:

Melissia wrote:Orks have dominated the galaxy, conquering the majority of known planets

I did not make up anything and claim you said it, you actually said it, the post is on this page! Man, you've got some serious issues.

Manchu says: Please do not purposely attempt to interfere with legitimate uses of the Ignore function.

-Loki- wrote:So yeah, technically, limited in that they don't get the benefit of growth in the biosphere. But less limited than other races in that they literally take everything.

They don't take metals, for example, as they don't use much of them. Nor do they likely take all of the various silicon compounds either. If they did take all the metals and silicon/carbon compounds, they'd not even leave an asteroid when consuming an earthlike planet (most of Earth is molten iron, for example).

Which basically means that the planet can still be utilized by other species.

-Loki- wrote:Just because she ignored you...

It was an off-topic post I'll admit but I don't like being called a liar when I am not. To be honest with you though I don't even know what "ignoring" someone actually does/means so I could care less.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Maybe the Orks do think of reproduction, since their main method is through these spores they are quite willing to die to create offspring.
An instinct to kill themselves (through battle) which creates new orks from the corpses must help the species. If all orks were pacifist how quickly would they expand?

An evolutionary imperative, that is an incredible insight, well done. Think it is a bit elegant for GW though, you are perhaps giving them too much credit. They are good at coaxing amazing theories like this from fans.

That might be a biological imperitive, but that doesn't mean that they personally think of such things.

Sorry, this isn't an ork question, its a nid question, but it sprung up when i read this quote so,

Loki wrote:Limited? They consume more of a planet than any other race would ever use. Basically, the entire biosphere. Including not only plants and animals, but minerals, oceans and other liquids, even gases. The planet is left as a bare rock in space. While they don't stay on the planet, and thus don't get the benefit of new plants and animals growing, by the time that would make a difference, they've moved on to another planet.

When nids "eat" a planet (comsume the biomass) does the atmosphere remain? because if it doesn't then there would be no

new plants and animals growing

and even if there was an atmopshere remaining, could life start over on a barren rock?

Life as we know it? Not necessarily. But Orks can survive in a vacuum (they send fighta-bommas up into space without any such issues), so it's very possible that Orkoid populations could.

WarrKing wrote:When nids "eat" a planet (comsume the biomass) does the atmosphere remain?

They do, consuming the atmosphere is one of the last things the hive ships do.

could life start over on a barren rock?

It's possible but it would take hundreds of millions of years to start over.

Isn't what happened was that the old ones got into a war with the necron gods and they were loosing so they made the orkz and the eldar. But what wound up happing way that some creepy things that are realy telopathic came out of the warp and drove the necrons away.

p.s. orkz are a sexual

Yes, the Enslavers (also Psyrens, Krell, dominators. puppeteers). There's new information on them in the Dark Heresy roleplay supplements.


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By the way, reading Into the Storm:

This reproductive system gives rise to another notable Ork trait: genetic knowledge. The ability to fight, to speak, and in the cases of the specialists or "Oddboy" castes, an understanding of science, technology, medicine, or any of a number of other complex skills, are all hard-wired into an Ork's genetics, as natural and instinctive as breathing. Orks emerge from the ground almost completely mature, with most of the skills they will ever require already present.

Similarly:

Orks in service of the Dark Gods, or even succumbing to the corrupting influence of the warp, are so rare as to be essentially unheard of. Simply put, Orks aren't as easily tempted to Chaos and they're far more resistant to the warping influence of Chaos than humans, for reasons that nobody has been able to accurately define.

Into the Storm is a great source, as ther's lots of information about Orks in general here.

To be fair, Tyranids are born fully grown with their intended behavior bred into them to. Synapse is there to guide them when they need guidance, but when it's not there, they can still do what they should be doing, if a little uncordinated.

This is in response to the questions that were raised about Orks actually having an understanding of sciences.

That is to say, they do. Their oddboyz know their science like we know how to breathe.

Eldrad wrote:Isn't what happened was that the old ones got into a war with the necron gods and they were loosing so they made the orkz and the eldar. But what wound up happing way that some creepy things that are realy telopathic came out of the warp and drove the necrons away.

Pretty much.

The Old Ones were attacked by the Necrontyr firstly but since the Old Ones had access to the webway they were easily able to push the Necrontyr back until they were little more than a minor irritation. The Necrontyr did not learn of the C'tan until later and eventually the C'tan with their new Necron slaves were able to crush the Old Ones.

It is unclear if the Old Ones literally made some of the ancient races or if they simply enhanced races which already existed. Personally, given the words and wording chosen in the Necron Codex I would opt for the latter, that the Old Ones enhanced existing races. According to the Codex they manipulated and nurtured many races, choosing the most warlike and making them more psychic to defend themselves against the C'tan.

These newly [or enhanced] psychic races are what caused the warp to become turbulent and turned the existing warp entities into ravening predators. The Enslavers are drawn to psykers especially as they use them to create warp portals which allows them ingress to the material world where they then enslave other races to do their bidding. Since the Enslavers were being attracted in ever greater numbers, destroying the young races in the process the C'tan decided to wait for the Enslavers to thin the psyker population and for the galaxy to throw up new life which they could then enslave and consume themselves and so went into stasis.

Melissia wrote:Life as we know it? Not necessarily. But Orks can survive in a vacuum (they send fighta-bommas up into space without any such issues), so it's very possible that Orkoid populations could.

To an extent, certainly, but even an Ork needs to breathe. I think the estimates are that they can survive for a few hours in a vacuum, but no more - somewhere in the Big Book, I believe.

In Rogue Trader: Into the Storm it describes an ability Orks have to resist the effects of the void, which can last quite a while.

Certainly I would think that it would be long enough to, say, develop an underground colony given that first fungus and then squigs form from said colonies.

Damn, they're hardier than I expected. Is it down to survival mechanisms or simply holding their breath for extended periods?

Uh, the skill's anme is "too 'ard to die". Or something to that effect.