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Ahtman wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:You said it yourself: "people who have surgery on their penis later in life that notice a difference", of course people that were circumcised as a child didn't note a difference, they are babies, they don't even remember the procedure let alone if they had more or less sensitivity in their glands before it, they have no frame for comparison!

You are making an assumption that those who where circumcised as infants have just adjusted but don't truly have the same sensation, but you have no medical proof to back that up. Anyone who has surgery later in life notices a difference, so there isn't necessarily anything to say this is somehow a special case. Outside of that we don't have evidence that circumcised men don't enjoy sex just as much as uncircumcised, but do have studies that say that they do.

It isn't because I say so, but because science doesn't work by filling in the blanks with what you want. I'm not pro-circumcision or anti-circumcision, but I am against calling an assumption is a fact.

That link doesn't exactly strike me as The NEJM or OJM, and the language used seems questionable as well. For example, referring to circumcision as only done to control a boy's sexual sensitivity because of personal bias. That isn't medical language.

The linked referenced a study done by the British Journal of Urology International, while the article posts some questionably biased language, the study that they reference was what I was trying to get at. If you prefer, you also have this paper:

http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1036&context=hss_pubs&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fscholar.google.com%2Fscholar_url%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fepublications.bond.edu.au%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1036%2526context%253Dhss_pubs%26sa%3DX%26scisig%3DAAGBfm1vgfJeT_7jhYzRaUlUQvI_108X7Q%26oi%3Dscholarr#search=%22http%3A%2F%2Fepublications.bond.edu.au%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1036%26context%3Dhss_pubs%22

But feel free to post some links to actual research done to disprove this...

That is a "Humanities and Social Sciences" piece, not a Medical piece, and while interesting, has all the medical weight of Freud saying "It's always your mother". The idea that all circumcised men are lying about being fine and many of them having PTSD strikes me as odd. Sort of a 'when did you stop beating your wife' sort of dichotomy. If you say that you suffered trauma from an event when you an infant you are in touch with your feelings, but if you don't then you are in denial about it.

mattyrm wrote:
There must be foreskins floating all over the fething place Stateside!

A man walked down a street in a Jewish part of town, window shopping, he came to the first shop, through the window he saw racks of lamb, it was of course a kosher butcher, but he didnt need to buy any meat that day. So he went to the next shop, in the window he saw hand crafted shoes, a shoemaker, but he didnt want to buy shoes that day. So he went along to the next shop, in the window were clocks, lots of clocks; wall clocks, tower clocks, mantlepiece clocks, cuckoo clocks, all hand made by skilled craftsmen. He always wanted a clock so in he went.
"How much for one of your cuckoo clocks?", he said to the man behind a desk in the shop front.
"I am sorry, but the clocks are not for sale", was the reply.
'Hold on, why are there all these clocks in the window if they are not for sale?", he asked with a confused expression.
The man behind the desk sighed and said, "I am the local circumcist, what else should I put in my office window."

Kilkrazy wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:Someone I spoke with a while ago said that in hospitals around where they lived in the US you had to specify you did not want parts of your new son lopped off as the assumption was that you did - doesn't sound right to me, but that is what they said

Once again the web is your friend.

http://www.circumstitions.com/USA.html

I didn't see anything in there about circumcision being considered the default choice when it comes to "taking care of" newborn boys.

Orlanth wrote:

mattyrm wrote:
There must be foreskins floating all over the fething place Stateside!

A man walked down a street in a Jewish part of town, window shopping, he came to the first shop, through the window he saw racks of lamb, it was of course a kosher butcher, but he didnt need to buy any meat that day. So he went to the next shop, in the window he saw hand crafted shoes, a shoemaker, but he didnt want to buy shoes that day. So he went along to the next shop, in the window were clocks, lots of clocks; wall clocks, tower clocks, mantlepiece clocks, cuckoo clocks, all hand made by skilled craftsmen. He always wanted a clock so in he went.
"How much for one of your cuckoo clocks?", he said to the man behind a desk in the shop front.
"I am sorry, but the clocks are not for sale", was the reply.
'Hold on, why are there all these clocks in the window if they are not for sale?", he asked with a confused expression.
The man behind the desk sighed and said, "I am the local circumcist, what else should I put in my office window."

In a Jewish area they wouldn't be called a circumcist, but a moile, and you forgot the set up, which is that the man had a broken clock, or watch depending on version of the joke, that he wanted repaired.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:Someone I spoke with a while ago said that in hospitals around where they lived in the US you had to specify you did not want parts of your new son lopped off as the assumption was that you did - doesn't sound right to me, but that is what they said

Once again the web is your friend.

http://www.circumstitions.com/USA.html

I didn't see anything in there about circumcision being considered the default choice when it comes to "taking care of" newborn boys.

Check the charts. If 90% of non-Jewish, non-Muslim men in some US states are circumcised, it is pretty much the default choice in those states.

Ahtman wrote:

I think KK has cut to the meat of the issue though with "Circumcision is essentially a cosmetic procedure carried out for psychological and social reasons."

Hey it was cutting to the meat that started this whole fething conversation!

Oh, Matty...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ahtman wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

mattyrm wrote:
There must be foreskins floating all over the fething place Stateside!

A man walked down a street in a Jewish part of town, window shopping, he came to the first shop, through the window he saw racks of lamb, it was of course a kosher butcher, but he didnt need to buy any meat that day. So he went to the next shop, in the window he saw hand crafted shoes, a shoemaker, but he didnt want to buy shoes that day. So he went along to the next shop, in the window were clocks, lots of clocks; wall clocks, tower clocks, mantlepiece clocks, cuckoo clocks, all hand made by skilled craftsmen. He always wanted a clock so in he went.
"How much for one of your cuckoo clocks?", he said to the man behind a desk in the shop front.
"I am sorry, but the clocks are not for sale", was the reply.
'Hold on, why are there all these clocks in the window if they are not for sale?", he asked with a confused expression.
The man behind the desk sighed and said, "I am the local circumcist, what else should I put in my office window."

In a Jewish area they wouldn't be called a circumcist, but a moile, and you forgot the set up, which is that the man had a broken clock, or watch depending on version of the joke, that he wanted repaired.

I still don't get it.

Kilkrazy wrote:Check the charts. If 90% of non-Jewish, non-Muslim men in some US states are circumcised, it is pretty much the default choice in those states.

Sorry, I meant to say that the doctors would circumcise babies "automatically" unless the parents said otherwise - that was what I was told and what I didn't think was accurate.

Yeah, in most of the US that was the default until relatively recently. It was believed to be healthier/more hygienic, and more attractive. It's really in the last decade or so that I've seen more public debate and discussion about it and more parents opting out.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Check the charts. If 90% of non-Jewish, non-Muslim men in some US states are circumcised, it is pretty much the default choice in those states.

Sorry, I meant to say that the doctors would circumcise babies "automatically" unless the parents said otherwise - that was what I was told and what I didn't think was accurate.

well as of 4 years ago, my doctor was against it, but in the end it is the parents decision in the states. Parents have to sign and give permission for any medical procedure. I applaud Germany for taking the stance that they did. There is no benefit to it, and grave consequences should it go bad.

sirlynchmob wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Check the charts. If 90% of non-Jewish, non-Muslim men in some US states are circumcised, it is pretty much the default choice in those states.

Sorry, I meant to say that the doctors would circumcise babies "automatically" unless the parents said otherwise - that was what I was told and what I didn't think was accurate.

well as of 4 years ago, my doctor was against it, but in the end it is the parents decision in the states. Parents have to sign and give permission for any medical procedure. I applaud Germany for taking the stance that they did. There is no benefit to it, and grave consequences should it go bad.

Quite of my three brothers 2 had botched circumcisions. One wasn't so bad (relatively) the other required a specialist.

I am generally against it for this reason and should I have sons I will not have them circumcised.

On a serious note, she also said that most Americans are circumcised for no reason at all?

Its very common among Christians in the US as a result of the Great Awakening. EDIT: Add in the Fundamentalist Era and the Culture wars. There's a lot of factors into why its so prominent here.