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What part of "you have made that up out of thin air" didnt you understand?

A restriction applied on purchasing options after nomination is not a restriction on when you can nominate. For the 2nd time.

You have a vague implication, which is not enough. You dont realise this.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Odd, thats you just making rules up

So, have you found a rule restricting when you can nominate? Because I've asked quite a few times now, and you keep avoiding actually answering.

Nominating doesnt cost anything either, so you still seem to have failed to produce a non-fallacious argument that doesnt rely on anything but very vague implication

So there is no restriction as to when to nominate a unit (effectively turn them into Plague zombies) ?

Indeed. Read the nomination requirements, and notice ALL they do is place a restriction on what you can perform after nominating (purchase options) - it does not actually place ANY RESTRICTION whatsoever on whenyou actually nominate

It's what Fragile is struggling with, because the rules do not actually say what they are claiming

In this game, it is *not* you can do it until you can't.

In Warhammer 40k the system of rules is: you cannot do it unless it says you *can*.

The rest is up for interpretation, but honestly this thread goes nowhere. The best thing to do is talk to your local TO, grab their advice/decision and run with that until a firm FAQ from Games Workshop is released.

Im not struggling with anything Nos. A rule written sequentially is typically intrepreted sequentially. I can see playing you it would go something like.

Nos Turn 1. The cultists move 6" and now I run d6.

Nos Turn 2. The cultists 6" and I run d6". Now that Im on that objective I GTG and nominate them to become zombies to get FNP, fearless. But its ok, I can't buy any upgrades for them now.

Yes, you are clearly struggling, as you have failed to actually read and comprehend the rule you are citing, because it does not say anything like what you are claiming

Again: a restriction on purchasing options after nominating is NOT a restriction on *when* you can nominate.

That is a true, factual statement, and one you are completely incapable of addressing. Until you do without running yet more fallacious "arguments' by, you dont have an argument.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Indeed. Read the nomination requirements, and notice ALL they do is place a restriction on what you can perform after nominating (purchase options) - it does not actually place ANY RESTRICTION whatsoever on whenyou actually nominate

It's what Fragile is struggling with, because the rules do not actually say what they are claiming

So can I nominate a unit of Cultist in Turn 3 of the game?

Emp. wrote:
The best thing to do is talk to your local TO, grab their advice/decision and run with that until a firm FAQ from Games Workshop is released.

This is the only sane rational thing I've read in this thread so far. I'm sure if I come back after five more pages of nonsense it will still be the only rational thing said. This thread should be locked.

Yes, if you want to. Because the actual rule does not limit when you can nominate, just what is allowed after you nominate a unit.

Do I expect that it will stay as loose as that? No. I fully expect you have to nominate before deployment, when they FAQ this, but having spoken to PK at GD I know he certainly intended you to be able to add more zombies. So HIWPI is i would always let my opponent have as many cultists turned to zombies as they like, up to 35. I dont and wont run them myself - i dont like hordes, im always about the elite armies. Despite Fragiles attempts at impugning my rules standpoint by suggesting i have ulterior motives, in a classic attempt at deflecting attention from a rules-less argument


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 undertow wrote:

Emp. wrote:
The best thing to do is talk to your local TO, grab their advice/decision and run with that until a firm FAQ from Games Workshop is released.

This is the only sane rational thing I've read in this thread so far. I'm sure if I come back after five more pages of nonsense it will still be the only rational thing said. This thread should be locked.

there is merit in determining what the rules actually say, as opposed to what people want them to say. I TO occasionally so i use this forum as a good exercise in determining what hte rules actually say, so when i have players asking for a ruling I can state the RAW and also, if needs be, produce a FAQ beforehand where I think RAQ falls short - usually by giving an unresolvable situation.

"ask your TO" and "wait for a FAQ" are good general advice, but useless when discussing actual rules - as useless as referring to TMIR

goatboy says he heard from Phil Kelly that they go to 35. Apparently it was an oversight. I am going keep playing 35 knowing that it will be FAQd.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
goatboy says he heard from Phil Kelly that they go to 35. Apparently it was an oversight. I am going keep playing 35 knowing that it will be FAQd.

My dog barked at another dog and then looked at me funny but I think I heard him say that it's still only 10 until the FAQ. I think our sources are even credibility dontyathink?

No, given one is an appeal to authority, the other is humour.

I also spoke directly to PK, however that doesnt alter that RAW you can, indeed, go to 35 (24 better than 11!) because no limitation is made on when you nominate.

I am suggesting nothing Nos, your deliberately trying to interpret the rule based on your own personal feeling on how it works (based of your conversation with PK). You continue to ignore the fact that it states when you nominate, which is before you buy options. Buying options is done during list building. You have nothing RAW to support any of your statements.

I went to church the other day and prayed about it and God, who is omniscient, told me in no uncertain terms that it is RAW and that the nomination process is during the list building phase. We then went out for some pizza and brews.

Aycee

Fragile wrote:
I am suggesting nothing Nos, your deliberately trying to interpret the rule based on your own personal feeling on how it works (based of your conversation with PK). You continue to ignore the fact that it states when you nominate, which is before you buy options. Buying options is done during list building. You have nothing RAW to support any of your statements.

Please stop making up rules.

It staes a RESTRICTION on purchasing options AFTER you nominate

This does not in any way shape or form give you a restriction on when you can nominate, just on what happens after you do so

You continually ignore this point, as it demolishes what little argument you had.

Nos, when do you ever buy options once your forces are on the table top? I can't recall ever having the ability to purchase options once the game starts.

If you could purchase options after the game started then I could see what your saying.

Aycee

No where does it say you nominate BEFORE you buy options. Though it does say you must buy the unit before you nominate it.

That has nothing to do wit the restriction.

You can nominate at any time - total RAW, as no limits are placed on when you nominate

IF you nominate during list building IT RESTRICTS YOUR OPTIONS THEN. If you nominate after list building there is no restriction.

Again, read the actual rule and notice it is a restriction on buying options IF you have nominated, it is NOT a restriciton on when you can nominate.

Plague Zombies cannot purchase Options, correct?
To me (no longer saying this is RAW) this implies that you nominate the unit while building the list.

HOWEVER, assuming one can nominate the unit at any point (even in the middle of the game), once the game starts, can you buy Options for a unit? No. Therefore you have two restrictions on buying Options in the middle of the game.

Yeah I gotta say nosferatu, you're really reaching on this one. I usually make my list, like, before playing the game. Crazy I know.

 Crablezworth wrote:
Yeah I gotta say nosferatu, you're really reaching on this one. I usually make my list, like, before playing the game. Crazy I know.

Yep, and nothing in the rule for PZ requires you to nominate before purchasing options. It just points out what happens if you DO nominate before purchasing options

I quite like to play the rules as they are written, not how I think they are written because i havent read them clearly, despite having them explained over and over. Crazy i know.

This is going in Circles.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
That has nothing to do wit the restriction.

You can nominate at any time - total RAW, as no limits are placed on when you nominate

IF you nominate during list building IT RESTRICTS YOUR OPTIONS THEN. If you nominate after list building there is no restriction.

Again, read the actual rule and notice it is a restriction on buying options IF you have nominated, it is NOT a restriciton on when you can nominate.

If you break apart rules and take them out of context, then you can do lots of things in this game.

It will do until one side manages to provide some rules to counter the very clear argument that has been presented - that a restriciton on purchasing options is not a restriction on nominating, no matter how many fallacious arguments are presented purporting to show this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
That has nothing to do wit the restriction.

You can nominate at any time - total RAW, as no limits are placed on when you nominate

IF you nominate during list building IT RESTRICTS YOUR OPTIONS THEN. If you nominate after list building there is no restriction.

Again, read the actual rule and notice it is a restriction on buying options IF you have nominated, it is NOT a restriciton on when you can nominate.

If you break apart rules and take them out of context, then you can do lots of things in this game.

Ah, so you still cannot provide an actual rules argument then.

This just highlights how utterly #^@&ing stupid GW's lack of designer blogs is.

This one is a clear cut case the designer could answer in 10 seconds. GW is stuck in the 19th century.

However, the fluff says the units should be small (the plague doesn't become overwhelming until after Typhus leaves), the most defensible position in the rule is the "10" rule, and folks are arguing about it.

PK can respond to GB with "nope, it's 35", but GW can't issue a FAQ despite at least 3 thorny debates with the codex arising.

They dont issue FAQs immediately - they wait a good month, usually

Nos, the problem is that you can't provide a precedent that supports your interpretation of the rules. In fact, I would say that there is circumstantial evidence against your version of the rule. That being said until some more clarification is presented it is up to the individuals to work out the mechanics. Just don't be surprised when people call BS.

Aycee

No, there is very vague implication

You dont need precedent when you have clear permission - you are allowed, with no restrictions, to Nominate a unit as PZ. After you do so the unit cannot take options. This is no way shape or form places a restriction on when you nominate, and you will notice that none of the anti's have actually managed a rules based argument against it - just some poor attempts at disparaging my motives behind the argument.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 undertow wrote:

Emp. wrote:
The best thing to do is talk to your local TO, grab their advice/decision and run with that until a firm FAQ from Games Workshop is released.

This is the only sane rational thing I've read in this thread so far. I'm sure if I come back after five more pages of nonsense it will still be the only rational thing said. This thread should be locked.

there is merit in determining what the rules actually say, as opposed to what people want them to say. I TO occasionally so i use this forum as a good exercise in determining what hte rules actually say, so when i have players asking for a ruling I can state the RAW and also, if needs be, produce a FAQ beforehand where I think RAQ falls short - usually by giving an unresolvable situation.

"ask your TO" and "wait for a FAQ" are good general advice, but useless when discussing actual rules - as useless as referring to TMIR

I get that there's merit in discussing rules, even when they're not too ambiguous, as it gives you more ammunition at the gaming table if someone is trying to get away with something. But this thread is ten pages (thus far) of:

Yes it is!!
No it isn't!!
Yes it is!!
No it isn't!!
Yes it is!!
No it isn't!!
Yes it is!!
No it isn't!!
Yes it is!!
No it isn't!!
Yes it is!!
No it isn't!!
Yes it is!!
No it isn't!!

This reminds me of the painboy debate, we all know how that turned out...