Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
daedalus wrote: Step 1: Dress up to attract attention around unattractive people who characteristically have problems with social interaction, ESPECIALLY with women.
Step 2: Act surprised and outraged. Alert the media, because step 1 was still not enough attention.
Lord-Loss wrote: There's truly been some strange and pretty digusting comments in this thread, I mean, wow. Next time I wonder why there are certain aspects of nerd culture where there are a huge lack of women participating in i'll just read this thread again.
I think we've all learned something today.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
LordofHats wrote: I work a job I hate because its the best paying job I can get. I see no reason why porn stars must necessarily have a different mentality.
I highly doubt one gets into the porn industry without at least a passing enjoyment of sex.
DutchKillsRambo wrote: You act like no woman has ever benefited from being a sex object.
Sure, because that's not the point of this discussion. You keep saying that this woman put herself in a position she did not enjoy because she did enjoy it (in some sense) but lied about it to reap a benefit. I am taking her at her word, that she did not enjoy it and did not ask for it. So for me, the lesson isn't that women can benefit from being treated badly. I'd say the lesson is, you're not supposed to treat people badly and made-up, post hoc hypothetical scenarios doesn't change that.
LordofHats wrote: I work a job I hate because its the best paying job I can get. I see no reason why porn stars must necessarily have a different mentality.
I highly doubt one gets into the porn industry without at least a passing enjoyment of sex.
Or a history of child abuse.
WARBOSS TZOO wrote:Grab your club, hit her over the head, and drag her back to your cave. The classics are classic for a reason.
DutchKillsRambo wrote: Overall I think its a lot more convoluted than any of us have been saying really.
I 100% agree with this.
LordofHats wrote: I work a job I hate because its the best paying job I can get. I see no reason why porn stars must necessarily have a different mentality.
And this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/22 20:53:38
DutchKillsRambo wrote: You act like no woman has ever benefited from being a sex object.
Sure, because that's not the point of this discussion. You keep saying that this woman put herself in a position she did not enjoy because she did enjoy it (in some sense) but lied about it to reap a benefit. I am taking her at her word, that she did not enjoy it and did not ask for it. So for me, the lesson isn't that women can benefit from being treated badly. I'd say the lesson is, you're not supposed to treat people badly and made-up, post hoc hypothetical scenarios doesn't change that.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Look through her website Manchu. She has shirts with couples performing various sex positions. Shirts with the word whore on it. A jean skirt with feth it written on the back. There;s no way these comments were knew to her.
There was an interesting point on the last page of women wanting to be objectified at times. I completely agree on this point. Strippers, porn stars, etc. have all been listed and are perfect examples. If you a tell girl in the bar bikini contest she's hot it'll make her smile and make you smile.
Most of you know I have an interesting history, so I can say with some authority it's very important to develop the awareness of what a woman wants, when she wants it and what she *thinks* she wants. If one is attempting to woo a girl in a public place, say a coffee shop, witty conversation, a flirty glance and a fitting compliment should be more than enough to get a feel of where she stands on you. She's already decided that quickly. Let's say you're at a club dancing and a girl wearing skimpy clothes comes up and starts dancing with you and grinding, she may or may not want anything more from you. Come on too strong and you'll alienate her immediately. Come on too weak and she'll judge you as a pussy. If you're in the bedroom, sometimes it is appropriate to handle her, toss her around and say horribly objectifying things, but this takes either knowing a person very well, or being compatible enough to read them very well. The only way to build that awareness is to communicate and observe til it becomes a sixth sense. Hopefully this has been informative.
Apparently "I look good and I'm not afraid of attention" = I don't deserve to be treated like a person. People like that are only objects that want to be objectified. Anything else would be uncivilized.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
She acted naive by saying she was shocked that men would be rude to her for wearing a racy costume at a comic con. In my mind shes lying. In yours shes not. Only she knows the truth.
DutchKillsRambo wrote: She acted naive by saying she was shocked that men would be rude to her for wearing a racy costume at a comic con. In my mind shes lying. In yours shes not. Only she knows the truth.
No, no: she said she was surprised that people would act this way to here in a situation where that normally doesn't occur in her experience. As a separate matter from surprise, she was also repulsed by the behavior.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/22 21:05:01
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Ahtman wrote: Apparently "I look good and I'm not afraid of attention"
So when you get that attention dont be surprised when its not all good maybe?
Your falling back to that failed idea that there aren't different types of attention. I should also have added "I'm not scared of human sexuality" to that bit as well, which much of this seems to revolve around. It isn't that she wanted attention, it is that the attention in this case was based around sexuality to some extent, and to a known comic character as well. We have multiple forums on this very website for people to seek attention on their work, but we don't condemn them for it and demean them as people for showing their minis, but we do to this woman.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
DutchKillsRambo wrote: I highly doubt one gets into the porn industry without at least a passing enjoyment of sex.
I think most of the human race has at least a passing enjoyment of sex. But really, have sex with a hot member of the opposite (or same) sex in front of a camera and we'll pay you more than most people make in half a decade? I'd do it but I don't have the legs for it
Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote: If you a tell girl in the bar bikini contest she's hot it'll make her smile and make you smile.
Telling a girl she's hot in a situation where that comment is appropriate and welcome isn't really objectifying her.
It is though, but I clarify that I don't believe in good and bad, just stuff existing. Objectifying isn't inappropriate in and of itself, just most of the time with most people. I say it is objectifying her because to a small degree you are indicating that her physical appearance is more important than her other attributes at that moment. A Shakespearean sonnet is a classier way of doing this which shows, through time and effort, a concern towards arousing her emotion as well which indicates you care about more parts of her. Even the Bible gets a little objectifying at times ("Your breasts are like fawns"). What the real issue is, is that women only want to be objectified when they want to objectified and it's up to men to decode their psycho-ness (which men have their own breed of and both sexes trade off on even within the framework of sexual identity).
Ahtman wrote: Apparently "I look good and I'm not afraid of attention"
So when you get that attention dont be surprised when its not all good maybe?
Your falling back to that failed idea that there aren't different types of attention. I should also have added "I'm not scared of human sexuality" to that bit as well, which much of this seems to revolve around. It isn't that she wanted attention, it is that the attention in this case was based around sexuality to some extent, and to a known comic character as well. We have multiple forums on this very website for people to seek attention on their work, but we don't condemn them for it and demean them as people for showing their minis, but we do to this woman.
If you cant see that sexuality changes the subject matter, especially in prudish America, then your being daft. A woman in a skintight outfit is very different than a mini of the same thing. But then we could trace it all the way back to why all comic artists feel the need to sexualize their female characters.
Ahtman wrote: Apparently "I look good and I'm not afraid of attention"
So when you get that attention dont be surprised when its not all good maybe?
Your falling back to that failed idea that there aren't different types of attention. I should also have added "I'm not scared of human sexuality" to that bit as well, which much of this seems to revolve around. It isn't that she wanted attention, it is that the attention in this case was based around sexuality to some extent, and to a known comic character as well. We have multiple forums on this very website for people to seek attention on their work, but we don't condemn them for it and demean them as people for showing their minis, but we do to this woman.
If you cant see that sexuality changes the subject matter, especially in prudish America, then your being daft. A woman in a skintight outfit is very different than a mini of the same thing. But then we could trace it all the way back to why all comic artists feel the need to sexualize their female characters.
To sell more comics. Unless they're actually attempting to change people's minds about women in general in a negative way, the women in the comic books are fictional so it's a fairly victimless crime. Kinda like killing a character in a horror movie.
AustonT wrote: Right she can only Cosplay and pose as comic book characters right?
You've lost me now. All I know is that you have failed to show any evidence supporting your statement.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote: I say it is objectifying her because to a small degree you are indicating that her physical appearance is more important than her other attributes at that moment.
That's what you think telling a girl she is hot means? I use it to mean "I find you sexually attractive."
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/22 21:22:11
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
AustonT wrote: Right she can only Cosplay and pose as comic book characters right?
You've lost me now. All I know is that you have failed to show any evidence supporting your statement.
I see plenty of evidence.
This is kind of weaving in and out of my question for Cannerus, but is the issue here that you are equating sexual attractiveness with being objectified? My own account of sexuality is that people are the proper objects of sexuality so even in that technical sense, being the object is not different from being a person -- in other words, this isn't the de-personalizing objectification that we're talking about. (Contrast this with someone who wants to rub their privates against a shoe or a pillow.) A woman being sexy isn't being less of a human being.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/22 21:27:59
my wife leaves the house in her corset, and her sweater puppets will be up her nose.
look at her? fine. she wore it, its out, no sense in getting angry. she can cover up if it upsets her.
touch her? absolutely not. then you deal with me. and i'm prepared to go to jail in defense of my wife.
shout inappropriate things at her? combo of one and two. show some respect and keep the dirty thoughts in your head where everyone elses are. I WILL say something back, but she can always put the girls away if she wants to.
its really all up to the woman. if they enjoy the attention, clearly they have emotional issues and they need help, OR, they're just fine and don't mind the objectification.
meanwhile, I walk Renn Faire in a kilt and boots. and thats it. like it or don't, its how I roll. same can be said for the ladies.
