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Knights paid an appropriate cost in 7th edition. Namely a 100 point base price to be a superheavy with 6hullpoints. Then it paid for it's armor (60 points), shield (20 points) etc.

Then it paid for a long range cannon of some kind while also buying a very powerful melee weapon forcing it to close the distance to ensure it was used to its full extent

So yes, it pays for what it does by diversifying targets and necessitating a close assault role while also sporting long range firepower. That is the opportunity cost.

It will pay that now while also feeling the pressure of a declining statline.

Here's what we know:
1. A Knight is Power Level 23
2. A 5 Man Tactical Squad is Power Level 5
3. A tooled up 5 Man Tactical Squad in 7th is around 100 points

If the Marine unit stays around 100 points in 8th, that will put the Knight in around 460 points. Is that enough for balance purposes?

tneva82 wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:
I am sure GW are aware that the Wraithknight was a bit too good for its points in 7th and it will be tweaked appropriately in 8th to bring it in line with other similar models. The fact that Iks now have wounds already weighs in its favour. Also it looks like Gargantuan is no longer a thing so you won't be stacking T8 3+/5++/FNP in the same way anymore.

My main hope is that it is still possible to include a single LoW in a mixed army. I don't want to spam them, but a single big hitter forming the centerpiece of an army looks really cool (and also fluffy, at least for Iyanden ).

Well knight will probably up it's wounds in 8th ed as well. And single LOW possible is pretty much quaranteed.

One good thing is that Wraith Knights and Riptides will now decline in power as they take wounds - something that was severely needed in 7th ed.

How on earth are people still lumping riptides with wraithknight?

 Mr Morden wrote:

One good thing is that Wraith Knights and Riptides will now decline in power as they take wounds - something that was severely needed in 7th ed.

While this will surely be the case for the WK, what makes you so sure the Riptide will get the same? It is entirely possible that the Riptide will have less than 10 wounds, but still have 2+/5++ and an ability called 'Stim Injectors' that is basically FNP (like we know Dark Eldar are getting through 'Power from Pain' and Nurgle Daemons get with 'Disgustingly Resilant')

 BoomWolf wrote:
How on earth are people still lumping riptides with wraithknight?

Because they are both the most powerful/cheese unit in their respective Codices, they are both near unkillable creatures (not vehicles) and Marine players hate them with the fires of hades.
They are also on the same size base, which premiered for Flyers, the DK, Riptide and WK.

-

 Galef wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

One good thing is that Wraith Knights and Riptides will now decline in power as they take wounds - something that was severely needed in 7th ed.

While this will surely be the case for the WK, what makes you so sure the Riptide will get the same? It is entirely possible that the Riptide will have less than 10 wounds, but still have 2+/5++ and an ability called 'Stim Injectors' that is basically FNP (like we know Dark Eldar are getting through 'Power from Pain' and Nurgle Daemons get with 'Disgustingly Resilant')

While we don't know for sure, given The Swarmlord has 12 Wound it's highly likely that a Riptide will have at least that many.
Especially given that Dreadnoughts have 8.

I think you're right about the Riptide, but at the rate that stats decrease (half wounds, than quarter wounds), a 12 wound Riptide isn't likely to care about its declining stats unless they are dramatically different from 7E (i.e. no Stims or Nova reactor)

I don't mind it being tough if it costs appropriately. Also, there's no ignore cover and to-hit increases now. So, riptide's killiness is likely to go down a bit.

 koooaei wrote:
I don't mind it being tough if it costs appropriately. Also, there's no ignore cover and to-hit increases now. So, riptide's killiness is likely to go down a bit.

Ehhhh... I remember when Warhammer had the "oh, yeah Vampire Counts are strong, but the units are trash." What does it matter that half your points are tied up in one character when literally nothing in the enemy army can kill it.

 koooaei wrote:

Spoiler:

 Roknar wrote:
Yea, hence the 50% attacks hitting. 3+ WS going to 4+.
We know furious charge is still around with khorne daemons and icons are still there too, so I'm pretty confident we can still get that strength buff, which suddenly matter a great deal more than it did with powerfists and their ilk. In this case wounding the knight on 3s as opposed to 4 like "normal" fists.
Either way, I think it's pretty safe to say that you don't want to get into CC with them/fist units with multiwound units.

There are likely no bonus attacks on the charge. Well, MoK Might give one. But you should also take it into consideration. 3 combi-meltas are likely to deal a bunch of wounds to a knight at half range. It's statistically ~1.5 that lands a wound after to-hits and 5++. So, it would be some damage. Than the fists will be swinging and dealing some more damage. I'd expect you to have at least 10 termies with close to average rolls with all combi-meltas and a bunch of axes, fists and chainfists to one-shot a knight.

I think it was blood letters that they said would get +1 strength and +1 attack on the charge. Mok has always either been +1 strength or attack, not so sure on furious charge anymore but given how the current icon gives khorne units furious charge, I would be surprised not to see some combination of both in 8th. Be it from the icon or whatever the mark equivalent is or more likely, a combination thereof.
I doubt they'll receive less base attacks either. That would give us a pretty safe assumption of a minimum of 3 attacks on the charge for khorne termies.
From what we've seen so far though, I'm not confident they reduced attacks across the board. It feels more like they intend to crank up melee as a whole, so personally I have no doubt they will get their fourth attack from somewhere.

I have no doubt whatsoever that 10 termies can oneshot a knight without breaking a sweat, but we might well be able to achieve the same with much less. Not accounting for loosing models of course so you still want more but yea.