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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Desubot wrote:
I dont think markerlights are straight dead.

you can shoot off a couple and you dont need the full 5 dot shebang.

getting 1 is already good enough.
2 is a little meh unless you are building a seeker list
3 is only really beneficial for i think infantry with heavy weapons OR extra markerlights on the move. technically since all shots are individual one at a time, you shoot of one markerlight at a time till you hit. after which any additional hits are reroll 1s so you have a slightly better chance to hit any additional shots. (i think)

4 is really good but is situational useless if they are not in cover.

5 is the grand poobaa but its going to take a bit to get to.

i honestly think just the one marker light hit is pretty powerful as its often a normal HQ level power.


Having never play Tau and looking at them for the 1st time, i dont think Markerlights are easy to get and amazing!

Tau seems so much more fun now, i'm starting them atm.

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I am getting back in the game after a few years off. I am seriously considering tau. I like the fire warriors and pathfinder models. I have read a couple of posts saying they are good if spammed. Do you more experienced players think so?
   
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Philadelphia

I think drones are good; but having to fire at the closest target will be so easily exploited by good players. Kroot hounds are half the points; fast, and still hit reasonably hard on the charge.

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Imho its quite obvious that in the line 'can fire using a weapon's Nova profile' the singular element references the Nova profile and not the weapon. It simple states that when shooting all your weapons, you can choose to use the nova profile (if the weapon has one) to do so, no restrictions that its only allowed for one weapon.

To stay in the farmer example, when meeting farmer John you are allowed to pet his cow(s), but not on head. However, if you give him a tenner, while petting a cow you are allowed to pet a cow's head. How many cows are you allowed to pet on the head?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/18 11:48:23


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I'm working on theory still, here, but it strikes me that Cadre Fireblades can really underpin any Markerlight strategy. Say you've got 3 squads of Fire Warriors supported by a Cadre Fireblade for objective holding and back line defense. The Fireblade starts by firing a Markerlight at a target with a high probability to hit (now everyone re-rolls 1s). Then the Fire Warrior Shas'uis can roll their Markerlights, getting 1-2 more hits. If you've got a single Pathfinder unit, this is probably enough to get the extra 2-3 hits for the jackpot 5 hits. Alternatively it makes it easy to dole out single hits for when split fire is the right choice. This isn't even including other penny packets of Markerlights like Stealth Suit team leaders or a few Markerlight drones thrown in the mix. All of these things strike me as pretty minimal investment for a big potential payoff. With the exception of Pathfinders, you're just paying for the Markerlights themselves on units that are useful in their own right.
   
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 The Shrike wrote:
I think drones are good; but having to fire at the closest target will be so easily exploited by good players. Kroot hounds are half the points; fast, and still hit reasonably hard on the charge.
I don't think that limitation can be exploited very easily. Really the only thing you don't want drones shooting at is T6+ stuff with a 2+ save, and even then, weight of fire can drag them down. Drones are reasonably fast, so you can likely maneuver away from any impending Land Raiders or whatever and get shots at more appropriate targets. You also probably have the option of just blasting that hard target away so your drones can frolic. Kroot Hounds are an interesting option, but I think it's pretty hard to ignore our 8pt burst cannons.
   
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Is this right Stealth -1 to hit means if plasma shoots at you and roles a 2 it becomes 1 and explodes? Likewise without stealth if a unit has +1 to hit then it won’t explode on a roll of 1? Stealth suits also look better in CC as that -1 effects CC hits and the unit can withdraw from CC and shoot weapons.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/18 12:21:06


 
   
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Lisbon, Portugal

BoomWolf wrote:
You are right on the horde, but wrong on the unit horded.
You horde drones.

They are brutal in overwatch, creepy effective in shooting in general against most things, cheap, fast, durable enough, and are the ultimate meatshield for your important tau units as they can tank fro your characters even when behind them. (and for other battlesuits/infantry too)

Drones are currently the crutch holding together the mess that is the tau index.


I think Drones would be good as a cushion behind the Kroot Hounds. If the enemy charges the Hounds (and it'll have to), the Drones can help with overwatch

Something like this:



Pottsey wrote:Is this right Stealth -1 to hit means if plasma shoots at you and roles a 2 it becomes 1 and explodes? Likewise without stealth if a unit has +1 to hit then it won’t explode on a roll of 1? Stealth suits also look better in CC as that -1 effects CC hits and the unit can withdraw from CC and shoot weapons.


As per the Designer's Commentaries (aka 'first FAQ'), yes. Unless the rules say 'unmodified rolls of X' (like overwatch), modifiers indeed stop overheating.
Is there anything in T'au index that gives us +1 to hit? I've seen re-rolls of 1 and +1BS, but not modifiers to the roll itself, IIRC.

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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
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Bristol

 Vector Strike wrote:

Is there anything in T'au index that gives us +1 to hit? I've seen re-rolls of 1 and +1BS, but not modifiers to the roll itself, IIRC.


5 Markerlights.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
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Anyone had any thoughts on using the XV8s third slot for a flamer? Along with a pair of regular weapons i mean as opposed to a tripflame suit. An autohitting overwatch deterrent seems like it'd be useful with the new charge system.

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Philadelphia

 Vector Strike wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
You are right on the horde, but wrong on the unit horded.
You horde drones.

They are brutal in overwatch, creepy effective in shooting in general against most things, cheap, fast, durable enough, and are the ultimate meatshield for your important tau units as they can tank fro your characters even when behind them. (and for other battlesuits/infantry too)

Drones are currently the crutch holding together the mess that is the tau index.


I think Drones would be good as a cushion behind the Kroot Hounds. If the enemy charges the Hounds (and it'll have to), the Drones can help with overwatch

Something like this:




I like this idea. Maybe instead of 100 hounds, it's 60 hounds and 20 Gun Drones (5 units of 4). That's an even 12 fast attack slots with my two Y'Vahras. So two Outrider detachments. Perfect.

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Lisbon, Portugal

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Vector Strike wrote:

Is there anything in T'au index that gives us +1 to hit? I've seen re-rolls of 1 and +1BS, but not modifiers to the roll itself, IIRC.


5 Markerlights.


And here I was, thinking 5 MLs gave +1 BS. They give +1 to hit, which is even better.
Now to get those 5 Mls reliably...

AI & BFG:
40k:
SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




100pts of Pathfinders should do the trick. I don't think you're going to find more than 1-2 targets in armies worthy of that kind of focused fire, so you really don't need as many markers as it may initially appear. It seems to me that many people are caught up in 7th rules where you wanted like 15% of your army to be marker lights. Now, that amount is excessive at best and outright wasteful at worst. Take enough to reliably get your 5 hits on something giant, even if they have to weather a turn of shooting, and be done with it. Afterward, you're probably best splitting your markers up for rerolling 1s, which is, in my opinion, the second best buff after +1 to hit.

I like the idea of markers being a less significant part of our army points-wise, but their diminished role and importance hurts the synergistic aspect of Tau armies I enjoyed so much in previous editions. I mean, it's not all bad, but I like having to weave different units together for greater effect. It adds a lot of depth to the game play and list building. We still have that quality to an extent, but it seems like Tau have trended more towards being individual units, even with the new drone rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/18 14:53:12


 
   
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 Vector Strike wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Vector Strike wrote:

Is there anything in T'au index that gives us +1 to hit? I've seen re-rolls of 1 and +1BS, but not modifiers to the roll itself, IIRC.


5 Markerlights.


And here I was, thinking 5 MLs gave +1 BS. They give +1 to hit, which is even better.
Now to get those 5 Mls reliably...


This will be easier than you think once you start looking at the cool combos you can do.

Between the special character, drones, vehicles etc.. you will be able to get 1 uit at full and a few units with 1-2 if need be.

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Three games now with a 9-flamer suit team using the homing beacon. Great results against SM and IG. Can really impact your opponent's strategy.
   
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I played around some with an all-flamer suit lineup coupled with promethium pipes in 7th, and it was unexpectedly awesome. I'm very interested to see how they adapt the pipes to the current rule set and may have to repeat my flamer madness if it feels right.
   
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Philadelphia

MilkmanAl wrote:
I played around some with an all-flamer suit lineup coupled with promethium pipes in 7th, and it was unexpectedly awesome. I'm very interested to see how they adapt the pipes to the current rule set and may have to repeat my flamer madness if it feels right.


As fun as that sounds, I think terrain is going to be faction specific now. In matched play I think it might be tidewall or nothing for us.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/18 16:45:14


Rule #1 is Look Cool.

4000 Tau'Arn Desert Raiders

2000 Sa'Cea Sept Urban Assault Cadre

1000 V'iet Jungle Insurgents (Under Construction)  
   
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xmbk wrote:
Three games now with a 9-flamer suit team using the homing beacon. Great results against SM and IG. Can really impact your opponent's strategy.

9 Crisis Suits with Flamers?
By the way, Crisis Suits can now use and fire 3 Weapons each. Meaning 9 Suits would be 27d6.
This would also be 69 points per suit, or 621 points. (ATS would be 1 point per suit cheaper, or 612 points)

As far as TriFlamers vs TwinFlamer ATS
vs MEQ
27 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 15.75
18 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 1/2 = 15.75

vs GEQ
27 * 3.5 * 2/3 * 2/3 = 42
18 * 3.5 * 2/3 * 5/6 = 35

vs BEQ
27 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 5/6 = 39.37
18 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 6/6 = 31.5

vs TEQ
27 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 1/6 = 7.87
18 * 3.5 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 10.5

vs Rhino/Dread
27 * 3.5 * 1/3 * 1/3 = 10.5
18 * 3.5 * 1/3 * 1/2 = 10.5


6+ = 6/36 | Reroll 1s = 7/36 | Reroll Misses = 11/36 ||||||| 5+ = 12/36 | Reroll 1s 14/36 | Reroll Misses = 20/36 ||||||| 4+ = 18/36 | Reroll 1s 21/36 | Reroll Misses = 27/36
3+ = 24/36 | Reroll 1s 28/36 | Reroll Misses = 32/36 ||||||| 2+ = 30/36 | Reroll 1s 35/36 ||||||| Highest of 2d6 = 4.47
 
   
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Germany

MoD_Legion wrote:
Imho its quite obvious that in the line 'can fire using a weapon's Nova profile' the singular element references the Nova profile and not the weapon. It simple states that when shooting all your weapons, you can choose to use the nova profile (if the weapon has one) to do so, no restrictions that its only allowed for one weapon.

To stay in the farmer example, when meeting farmer John you are allowed to pet his cow(s), but not on head. However, if you give him a tenner, while petting a cow you are allowed to pet a cow's head. How many cows are you allowed to pet on the head?


No need to discuss this any further, he is the only one arguing you can't shoot both an he disqualified himself with that "cow" example that doesn't even fit the situation...
   
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Lisbon, Portugal

I have a question on Homing Beacon. It says "(...) If there are any friendly homing beacons on the battlefield at the end of your Movement phase, one of your <SEPT> units that has been set up in a Manta hold can perform a low-altitude drop instead of a Manta strike."

Does it mean that, no matter the number of friendly homing beacons on the game in a particular phase, I can bring only 1 unit this way? Or can I bring at least 1:1 unit per homing beacon?

The Shrike wrote:
MilkmanAl wrote:
I played around some with an all-flamer suit lineup coupled with promethium pipes in 7th, and it was unexpectedly awesome. I'm very interested to see how they adapt the pipes to the current rule set and may have to repeat my flamer madness if it feels right.


As fun as that sounds, I think terrain is going to be faction specific now. In matched play I think it might be tidewall or nothing for us.


Just checked Index Imperium 2; all fortifications there are Unaligned.

AI & BFG:
40k:
SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ah, interesting. I didn't realize fortifications were in Imperial 2. If promethium pipes still make things "torrent," which looks to be 16" range, that could be brutally awesome on flamer suits. That volume of medium-range autohits with split fire damn near breaks the game. That's all speculation, of course, but I'm veeeeeery interested in this scheme.
   
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Lisbon, Portugal

Pipelines are just terrain now. Act as barricades but, for each final roll of 7+ (like rolling a 6 when using it as cover), roll another die; if you roll an 1, the unit suffers a mortal wound.

Nothing on turning fire stuff into 'torrent'

AI & BFG:
40k:
SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in it
Water-Caste Negotiator





 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Shame to see what they've done to so many Tau units - nerf them into oblivion. I'm suprised that more people aren't upset about the thrashing the Riptide has received at the hands of GW - almost every Tau player had one or more of these expensive models, and now they're little more than paperweights.

I don't entirely blame GW for this though, but the spiteful player base calling for the Tau to be gutted...well, GW was listening, and they were not kind with the knife. Did some units need rebalancing? Absolutely. Did those units need to be made nearly useless? Absolutely not.

Same here. I consider myself lucky to have multiple armies, but my favourite one (Tau) just does not look interesting to play anymore. I'll keep painting whatever models I have still unpainted but my planned purchases are for those other armies I have.
Whether a unit is viable or not to play is, sadly, one of the factors for me when considering a new purchase. I guess that Tau sold too well in the last few years and now GW has to push some other factions.

As for the Riptide, I have only one of them and it is simply overcosted for what it does. I can't find room for it in any list I make.

What buggles me is a lot of combined changes, both in the general rules and Tau-specific ones. I simply cannot accept that the only viable lists include hundreds of Gun Drones or Kroot Hounds, didn't they tell us that "everything will be viable and balanced"?
Let's wait for a Codex and hope for the best.


 
   
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Germany

What the riptide broke was the kind of player, that brought 3 or even more of them to the table.
1 riptide was a perfectly reasonable unit. A very good and tough one, but not broken. I expected a slight pointraise or some nerfs to it, but this is just crazy.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Vector Strike wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
You are right on the horde, but wrong on the unit horded.
You horde drones.

They are brutal in overwatch, creepy effective in shooting in general against most things, cheap, fast, durable enough, and are the ultimate meatshield for your important tau units as they can tank fro your characters even when behind them. (and for other battlesuits/infantry too)

Drones are currently the crutch holding together the mess that is the tau index.


I think Drones would be good as a cushion behind the Kroot Hounds. If the enemy charges the Hounds (and it'll have to), the Drones can help with overwatch

Something like this:



Pottsey wrote:Is this right Stealth -1 to hit means if plasma shoots at you and roles a 2 it becomes 1 and explodes? Likewise without stealth if a unit has +1 to hit then it won’t explode on a roll of 1? Stealth suits also look better in CC as that -1 effects CC hits and the unit can withdraw from CC and shoot weapons.


As per the Designer's Commentaries (aka 'first FAQ'), yes. Unless the rules say 'unmodified rolls of X' (like overwatch), modifiers indeed stop overheating.
Is there anything in T'au index that gives us +1 to hit? I've seen re-rolls of 1 and +1BS, but not modifiers to the roll itself, IIRC.

Longstrike gives +1 to hit to other hammerheads which I means you can overcharge Ion cannons without risk of overload. Which might be nice as that's D6 against units if 10+ models.
   
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 Vector Strike wrote:
Pipelines are just terrain now. Act as barricades but, for each final roll of 7+ (like rolling a 6 when using it as cover), roll another die; if you roll an 1, the unit suffers a mortal wound.

Nothing on turning fire stuff into 'torrent'
Well crap.

By the way, I agree with the "WTF?!" sentiment about most of our bigger units. I was cautiously optimistic that maybe the costs would prove okay-ish in the larger picture of the game, but those hopes have largely been dashed. Stormsurges are usable, and I like the idea of an EWO Surge protecting stuff from drops. That said, it seems like the best way to play Tau is massed troops plus doing the dropping, yourself, so that counter-strategy may not really be terribly useful. Ghostkeels are interesting as speedy forward distraction units, but again with the drops. Crisis Suits are overcosted, and R.I.P.tides are a calamity. I'm hopeful that the Forgeworld suits will ease the pain a little, and the Y'Vahra looks like a promising start, even though it's going to be 400+ points.

As it stands, if you're going to win games, we're a horde army supported by Commanders. I think that's actually going to be a competitive strategy, but there aren't a whole lot of other viable options that I see. Perhaps someone will blow us all away with their Vespid/Piranha spam list or something, but we need that codex STAT.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/18 18:35:07


 
   
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Germany

After reading the FAQ:

How do the bonusses of 1 and 5 Markerlights work together?

I cannot reroll 1s if I have 5 ML, can I ?
   
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Aeri wrote:
After reading the FAQ:

How do the bonusses of 1 and 5 Markerlights work together?

I cannot reroll 1s if I have 5 ML, can I ?
Fortunately, they state explicitly that "re-rolls always happen before modifiers," which makes a hell of a lot more sense to me than the other way around, which a lot of people seemed to think was the case.
   
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There was a FAQ?

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It's linked in the rumors forum. It's actually very useful and answered a lot of questions I had.
   
 
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