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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

In thinking about it, I'm now going to Ignore the apologists. People who would go to such lengths to defend a blatant cheater lack the minimum of character and integrity that I would require for further communication. One could say that I'm placing a lifetime ban on reading their posts.
____

ETA - wow, press 2 buttons, and the thread got much better!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 15:25:44


   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





In his initial response it seems pretty clear that he takes minor rule transgressions for granted in a tournament environment.

If "everyone does it" or "he cheated too" is your argument, you've pretty much given yourself away.
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Thanks for sharing that LVO info. That guy seems pretty TFG for sure.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 15:48:13


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

 SHUPPET wrote:
Jesus, people are ridiculously angry towards anyone who doesn't agree that a model bump that looks deliberate and couldn't possibly be accidental


every second post is a personal attack lol. Talk about toxic


People aren't getting toxic to anyone who suggests it may be accidental.

They're getting toxic towards people who say "it might be accidental" as a reason to let him off the hook. The best way to cheat is in a way you could plausibly say "oops, it was an accident." I "accidentally" played two cards when I meant one in Uno; it's because of how I organize my hand and fatigue, I swear. I "accidentally" fell onto the woman and penetrated her without consent. The premise that "just because it 'could' be accidental" isn't a reason to let the guy off, because damn near anything can be accidental in Warhammer.

Ultimately, it is a subjective decision as to whether or not it was deliberate as only Mr. Harrison knows. But the consensus of the judges and many other people is that it was deliberate, and saying "but what if it wasn't" is just not helping, because that's used to justify all kinds of spurious behavior. The standard of evidence required to determine if someone cheated is necessarily lower than that of a court - because otherwise, the "it's an accident" works, as it did for the link above. Cheating so blatant as to not be excusable with "omg sorry accident" when called out is probably already weeded out at most levels.
   
Made in au
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 SHUPPET wrote:
Jesus, people are ridiculously angry towards anyone who doesn't agree that a model bump that looks deliberate and couldn't possibly be accidental


every second post is a personal attack lol. Talk about toxic


People aren't getting toxic to anyone who suggests it may be accidental.

They're getting toxic towards people who say "it might be accidental" as a reason to let him off the hook.


Well, They are, actually. Some are absolutely and undeniably doing exactly that. I outright said in other responses that they are free to take whatever ruling they like. Just that I don't think he was definitely guilty. And yet the same guy I responded to with this accused me of being a cheater for defending him, and made a bunch of other character attacks. Another guy just above directed it specifically to anyone who would defend him, lacks the minimum of character and integrity to justify talking to. Didn't say anything about it being only people who are trying to change the ruling.

And all that aside, Whatever the reason, I don't think this little technicality in argument justifies this toxic personal attacks and flaming people of different opinions regardless

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 16:01:07


P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Can we pause for a minute. I make rules mistakes when I play in tournaments, but in general when i reflect on them, they hurt me, not just help me.

Example time.

I forgot for an entire tournament to take advantage of my monstrous rending claws. On a roll of 6 that's an AP-6, flat 3 damage hit. With strength 6 they're rerolling wounds, meaning you have a decent chance to produce that 6. 2 Flyrants over 3 games, never once taking advantage of this. I even spent CP to fight twice with them because they weren't dealing damage. What a bonehead move.

In another game, at a final table, i skipped my psychic phase, totally by accident. I was exhausted and had just won an awful game with a true "That Guy" the game before and just wanted to go home. Me, an undefeated Tyranids player, having won 4 tournaments in the previous 3 & a half months, skipped a psychic phase at a final table. Whoops.

I'm very careful in regards to position of synapse. In that same game, I forgot to penalize myself for losing a synapse bubble on one unit. This was to my benefit. But in this game, and in general, it's fairly obvious that half of my blunders hurt me (quite badly). I'm not constantly making mistakes in my favor.

It's the fact that this guy was consistently making the same mistakes, and they were the kinds of mistakes that exhausted players don't generally make. No matter how tired you are, you will be careful in regards to position. I knock my miniatures over if my sweatshirt or hoodie grabs onto their ridiculously sharp claws. This happens. But to bump them with your arms, and slide them forward without knocking them over? Come on. I mentioned forgetting to take a morale test because of synapse. Fine. But that's not me fundamentally not understanding how synapse works, which is comparable to not understanding how greater good works.

The volume of mistakes and the kind of mistakes, the way they were made, should clearly suggest this guy was intentional in his mistakes.

EDIT - And just to add this game operates on good faith. If i forget to take a morale test because i kill a unit out of range by stupidity or exhaustion without thinking, that's unacceptable. I feel bad about it. Yes, my opponent should ask me to take a morale test in a perfect world, but in reality, he shouldn't have to: this is what i mean by good faith gameplay. I should know that i'm no longer subject to synapse and take my morale check. The game is better when people make an effort to be as fair as possible with their opponent. I've played a ton of tournament games with hyper competitive players. It's freaking obvious who is intentional and who isn't. I watched a guy roll a 2 and a 1, and tell me he passed two 5+ invulnerable saves. He didn't think i could see his dice. People who roll out of view of their opponent are not playing in good faith. I bring a dice tray and set it up in the center and always offer (a) to let my opponent use my tray and (b) roll any of my dice to take saves rather than counting up and rolling their own, to speed up gameplay. This way people always have the ability to see my rolls, and also audit them before taking saves, so i'm not touching my dice after rolling. Outside of "That Guy" i generally have people friend request me and want to play with me again, because i go so far out of my way to be a courteous opponent and be completely transparent in what i'm doing.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 16:17:18


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I know a 12 years old child that plays in our store.

At first with all of his mistakes (Like Plague Drones hitting on 3+ instead of 4+ even after I pointed out I was pretty sure they hit on 4+, the warlord trait of death guard that increases Disgusting Resilient of the warlord from 5+ to 4+ affecting ALL of the army, etc...) I just assumed he was just making mistakes because, well, hes a kid.

But then after talking with my friends, all of his mistakes don't only always benefit him (For example, I played my Reaper Autocannon as Heavy 3 for 3 full tournaments, so 9 games, when its actually Heavy 4) but he don't make the same "Mistake" with a person.
Like the drones hitting on 3+ instead of 4+. He played with a friend of mine, and he made them hit on 3+, then the next game he played agaisnt me and they where hitting on 4+ because I allready pointed out that the past tournament.

So, if somebody is always making "Mistakes"; but then ALL of those mistakes always work in his benefit... thats not a mistake.

(Basically, what Marmatag said)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 16:07:54


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

The difference between accidents/mistakes and cheating is pretty simple:
* accidents/mistakes hurt the player, too
* accidents/mistakes get corrected as soon as possible, and generously

That means:
* you re-roll dice that you didn't get your opponent to verify
* you move models back to the most unfavorable position that they might have been
As so forth.

The onus is on the player to play the game correctly. At no point should the opponent ever be penalized or disadvantaged for a player's mistakes.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The difference between accidents/mistakes and cheating is pretty simple:
* accidents/mistakes hurt the player, too
* accidents/mistakes get corrected as soon as possible, and generously

That means:
* you re-roll dice that you didn't get your opponent to verify
* you move models back to the most unfavorable position that they might have been
As so forth.

The onus is on the player to play the game correctly. At no point should the opponent ever be penalized or disadvantaged for a player's mistakes.


While this is the logic I generally live by, it's worth noting that I've seen players intentionally question things that shouldn't have been in question to take advantage of generous corrections. Particularly when it comes to dice rolls there's a very fuzzy line between it being my mistake that I didn't LET them verify and their mistakes that they weren't paying attention.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 LunarSol wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The difference between accidents/mistakes and cheating is pretty simple:
* accidents/mistakes hurt the player, too
* accidents/mistakes get corrected as soon as possible, and generously

That means:
* you re-roll dice that you didn't get your opponent to verify
* you move models back to the most unfavorable position that they might have been
As so forth.

The onus is on the player to play the game correctly. At no point should the opponent ever be penalized or disadvantaged for a player's mistakes.


While this is the logic I generally live by, it's worth noting that I've seen players intentionally question things that shouldn't have been in question to take advantage of generous corrections. Particularly when it comes to dice rolls there's a very fuzzy line between it being my mistake that I didn't LET them verify and their mistakes that they weren't paying attention.
Then politely ask your opponent to actually pay attention when you roll your dice.
If you roll correctly (in sight, remove failures, leave successes for a moment for verification) its not my problem if they are checking their twitter instead.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 LunarSol wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The difference between accidents/mistakes and cheating is pretty simple:
* accidents/mistakes hurt the player, too
* accidents/mistakes get corrected as soon as possible, and generously

That means:
* you re-roll dice that you didn't get your opponent to verify
* you move models back to the most unfavorable position that they might have been
As so forth.

The onus is on the player to play the game correctly. At no point should the opponent ever be penalized or disadvantaged for a player's mistakes.


While this is the logic I generally live by, it's worth noting that I've seen players intentionally question things that shouldn't have been in question to take advantage of generous corrections. Particularly when it comes to dice rolls there's a very fuzzy line between it being my mistake that I didn't LET them verify and their mistakes that they weren't paying attention.


But that isn't what happened here. We're discussing very specific mistakes in a very specific scenario.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Marmatag wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The difference between accidents/mistakes and cheating is pretty simple:
* accidents/mistakes hurt the player, too
* accidents/mistakes get corrected as soon as possible, and generously

That means:
* you re-roll dice that you didn't get your opponent to verify
* you move models back to the most unfavorable position that they might have been
As so forth.

The onus is on the player to play the game correctly. At no point should the opponent ever be penalized or disadvantaged for a player's mistakes.


While this is the logic I generally live by, it's worth noting that I've seen players intentionally question things that shouldn't have been in question to take advantage of generous corrections. Particularly when it comes to dice rolls there's a very fuzzy line between it being my mistake that I didn't LET them verify and their mistakes that they weren't paying attention.


But that isn't what happened here. We're discussing very specific mistakes in a very specific scenario.


John's post seems to be a general guideline to differentiate accidents and cheating. I'm just commenting on how simple definitions can be abused by those willing to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ordana wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The difference between accidents/mistakes and cheating is pretty simple:
* accidents/mistakes hurt the player, too
* accidents/mistakes get corrected as soon as possible, and generously

That means:
* you re-roll dice that you didn't get your opponent to verify
* you move models back to the most unfavorable position that they might have been
As so forth.

The onus is on the player to play the game correctly. At no point should the opponent ever be penalized or disadvantaged for a player's mistakes.


While this is the logic I generally live by, it's worth noting that I've seen players intentionally question things that shouldn't have been in question to take advantage of generous corrections. Particularly when it comes to dice rolls there's a very fuzzy line between it being my mistake that I didn't LET them verify and their mistakes that they weren't paying attention.
Then politely ask your opponent to actually pay attention when you roll your dice.
If you roll correctly (in sight, remove failures, leave successes for a moment for verification) its not my problem if they are checking their twitter instead.


I agree, but I've also been called in as a dice observer when someone was almost certainly intentionally waiting for the dice to be picked up before questioning the result. It shouldn't be your problem, I agree, but a lot of cheating is about exploiting the trust your opponent has that the things you do are not intentionally malicious.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 17:01:44


 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Gotcha. Yeah those guidelines are half baked.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Unlike the ork player who slow played to victory at WHF Alex defended himself here which shows some character in my opnion. I think Geoff Robinson would have said something if he thought he was being cheated too - he is no slouch and does not tolerate any sloppy play from what I’ve seen. Some people they get triggered and go totally nutso when this type of things happen and there’s no objectivety they want blood and they want it now. They are bullheaded and it’s pointless trying to discuss because they will only argue and never give an inch. It’s said and done now so best just to move along and ignore the mob here.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Tbh I couldn't really tell if it was cheating or not. Thats part of the problem though. Its too easy in this game to hide bold faced cheating. The sloppy play and getting rules wrong excuse are to hard to discount because everyone is guilty of that at some point in this game.

Also the whole attitude that the onus is on the player to keep their opponents honest doesn't help matters any when you have a game that is this complex. I've been to a few events where I couldn't tell if my opponents were deliberatly trying to cheat or just didn't know the rules well. The only way I would find out really is watching all the guys other games and see if they were pulling the same stuff at other tables as well. There aren't any feasable solutions to that problem though that I can think off.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Primark G wrote:
Unlike the ork player who slow played to victory at WHF Alex defended himself here which shows some character in my opnion. I think Geoff Robinson would have said something if he thought he was being cheated too - he is no slouch and does not tolerate any sloppy play from what I’ve seen. Some people they get triggered and go totally nutso when this type of things happen and there’s no objectivety they want blood and they want it now. They are bullheaded and it’s pointless trying to discuss because they will only argue and never give an inch. It’s said and done now so best just to move along and ignore the mob here.
Multiple people in chat noticed Geoff was holding Alex to a lot more tight play then he normally would leading to suspicions that stuff happened during their previous game.

Tho it could just as easily be tensions for the final after him losing the previous game big.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/24 19:27:20


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

That is totally subjective. It was a big game and they both had a long long day.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





licclerich wrote:
40k is the worst bloody awful set of rules to play in torneys. Too many extra rules in the codex, crappy and overly powerful codexes. Torneys set up without all the codex's release.
You pay for it so don't moan about who and what turns up opposite you.


This has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand and adds nothing. Start a new thread if you want to whine about 40k not being appropriate for tournaments.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Primark G wrote:
They are bullheaded and it’s pointless trying to discuss because they will only argue and never give an inch. It’s said and done now so best just to move along and ignore the mob here.


What the literal feth?

There's quite a few rational posts detailing why he deserved consequences.

What inch specifically are you giving?

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

I never said he is innocent but I don't any intelligent rationale person that plays 40k can say without some doubt he cheated.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 Primark G wrote:
I never said he is innocent but I don't any intelligent rationale person that plays 40k can say without some doubt he cheated.


If you define cheating based on intent, then there could be a doubt, but i certainly wouldn't describe that as reasonable doubt. To me, there is enough evidence to suggest he cheated beyond a reasonable doubt.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Post deleted. Basically Tau whining..

I rather stare at a blank piece of paper for 4 hours than play a game against Tau.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 21:11:42


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Thebiggesthat wrote:


Was he tired at the other tourneys he cheated at? Tired at the SCGT was he? Tired at the AoS tourney where he had to be threatened with a table flip to stop his bull? Tired at the two previous 40k tournaments he nudged and moved models.

People like him get away with being an arse because it's mainly decent people that want to enjoy their time doing a hobby they enjoy. It's not life and death so let it slide.

Whatever the shambles the LGT was this year, kudos for them to finally call out his nonsense.


I wasnt going to reply to this thread but this is utter garbage.

SCGT i did not cheat. I moved a model which I discussed to my opponent he had moved too far and moved it back. Since then my opponent has even said it was fine and the internet exploded assuming i cheated as there was no sound.
Threatened with a table flip, what on earth are you on about? Thats never EVER happened. Youre literally spreading absolute nonsense. Two previous events i went to I droped out the second day because I was ill and I have never nudged or moved models. Stop spreading lies. Youre the problem with this community, literally.

People like you get away with giving others who are out there enjoying the game a bad name.

As for this nonsense about me being hungover, I was not hungover, I was tired. Because the TO forced me to play the invitational which I did not want to play because I was tired and was told Id have to be up at 5am to play the rest of it because we were rushed out the door. Again, get your facts straight. Chinese whispers is all youve been doing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ordana wrote:
 Primark G wrote:
Unlike the ork player who slow played to victory at WHF Alex defended himself here which shows some character in my opnion. I think Geoff Robinson would have said something if he thought he was being cheated too - he is no slouch and does not tolerate any sloppy play from what I’ve seen. Some people they get triggered and go totally nutso when this type of things happen and there’s no objectivety they want blood and they want it now. They are bullheaded and it’s pointless trying to discuss because they will only argue and never give an inch. It’s said and done now so best just to move along and ignore the mob here.
Multiple people in chat noticed Geoff was holding Alex to a lot more tight play then he normally would leading to suspicions that stuff happened during their previous game.

Tho it could just as easily be tensions for the final after him losing the previous game big.


Nope he was a bit more tense because he losed. We definitely had a good game both times. I have spoken to Geoff and he will be covering his view in a podcast before. He has alsready stated to me our game was fine and handled well after the hammerhead mistake and thats that. Ive made my response to the rest of the nonsense claims. Sorry I didnt want to reply but just thought id cover that.

One thing is I even made a mistake in all my games. I was causing a wound on my riptides all tournament when I rolled a 1 to hit with the Nova charged very of its Heavy Burst cannon. I also thought riptides had 13 wounds, not 14, which I realised halfway through the tourney. So yes I made mistakes which hurt me aswell.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 21:13:25


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Good for you sticking up for yourself! Look it all these anon internet lions - LOL!

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Why was there a hammerhead mistake? Did you have 0 practice games and never actually look at the ability in the codex? Can you explain why this rule would be misplayed so egregiously?

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Marmatag wrote:
Why was there a hammerhead mistake? Did you have 0 practice games and never actually look at the ability in the codex? Can you explain why this rule would be misplayed so egregiously?


Correct, 0 practice games. Never read the rule, just assumed they had it, as did many other tau players at the event (not to deflect, just saying). We even checked the rule at the table with the judge on my epub version of the codex and still miss-read the rule as it looked to us as if the tanks did have FTGG.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

@killswitch
Man, don't try to defend yourself on the internet. It's a bit of a fool's errand. Best defense would be to quietly discuss with the LGT people and get the ban removed. Most of them will take that as proof of innocence. If that can't happen, then let them chatter with what they're gonna chatter about until they get bored of it.

20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

 KillswitchUK wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
Why was there a hammerhead mistake? Did you have 0 practice games and never actually look at the ability in the codex? Can you explain why this rule would be misplayed so egregiously?


Correct, 0 practice games. Never read the rule, just assumed they had it, as did many other tau players at the event (not to deflect, just saying). We even checked the rule at the table with the judge on my epub version of the codex and still miss-read the rule as it looked to us as if the tanks did have FTGG.


Wow, okay. In that case, i retract my statement about this specific instance being intentional.

In retrospect, once you found out this rule was played differently, the best thing to do is resign from the tournament. It sucks but then you don't run into this kind of thing.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
@killswitch
Man, don't try to defend yourself on the internet. It's a bit of a fool's errand. Best defense would be to quietly discuss with the LGT people and get the ban removed. Most of them will take that as proof of innocence. If that can't happen, then let them chatter with what they're gonna chatter about until they get bored of it.


Actually i am glad he's discussing this. Finding out he had 0 games played as Tau actually makes the error more understandable. While there should have been consequences clearly a lifetime ban is not appropriate here.

Things like declaring you pre-measured and trying to move later are dubious but that's also a culture thing maybe? I would never let people do this to me, because it smacks of bad form at the least. So while some of his moves were questionable, the biggest issue to me was misplaying what should be a very well understood rule. But, if he has never really touched the army or list, i mean, sure, that's just incredibly surprising.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/24 21:25:52


 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 niv-mizzet wrote:
@killswitch
Man, don't try to defend yourself on the internet. It's a bit of a fool's errand. Best defense would be to quietly discuss with the LGT people and get the ban removed. Most of them will take that as proof of innocence. If that can't happen, then let them chatter with what they're gonna chatter about until they get bored of it.


Agreed, problem is the LGT people who promised a public apology and apologised for me for the nonsense they have posted, havn't done so. And that above coment really made me bite. Lies and chinese whispers of the worst kind!
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Marmatag wrote:
 KillswitchUK wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
Why was there a hammerhead mistake? Did you have 0 practice games and never actually look at the ability in the codex? Can you explain why this rule would be misplayed so egregiously?


Correct, 0 practice games. Never read the rule, just assumed they had it, as did many other tau players at the event (not to deflect, just saying). We even checked the rule at the table with the judge on my epub version of the codex and still miss-read the rule as it looked to us as if the tanks did have FTGG.


Wow, okay. In that case, i retract my statement about this specific instance being intentional.

In retrospect, once you found out this rule was played differently, the best thing to do is resign from the tournament. It sucks but then you don't run into this kind of thing.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 niv-mizzet wrote:
@killswitch
Man, don't try to defend yourself on the internet. It's a bit of a fool's errand. Best defense would be to quietly discuss with the LGT people and get the ban removed. Most of them will take that as proof of innocence. If that can't happen, then let them chatter with what they're gonna chatter about until they get bored of it.


Actually i am glad he's discussing this. Finding out he had 0 games played as Tau actually makes the error more understandable. While there should have been consequences clearly a lifetime ban is not appropriate here.
And how about if you look at the part where he still miss played his Hammerheads the next day (he no longer fired the main gun with FTGG but still did the SMS's)
   
 
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