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2019/03/28 12:42:21
Subject: Re:Chaos Cultist new change - 5 Pts AND no legion trait. Thoughts?
Pleasestop wrote: Okay, then try and fight Orks. If you can't deal with 60+ guarden, how are you going to deal with 90+ Orks, where they kill almost anything they touch in CC thanks to Skarboys, Ghaz and Exploding 6s?
First of all... that's what you are taking as an example? None of that is anywhere near competitive. Skarboyz are less survivable than imperial guardsmen, cost 7 points per model and a CP per unit, Ghaz is a overcosted by a lot and the goff kulture is nothing but overkill. In addition, if I can kill 60 guardsmen (240 points) with heavy bolter shots, those same heavy bolters will kill 74 skarboyz (518 points and 3 CP). And that's not even considering that those skarboyz can't chose to be in cover. Second - Kill almost anything they touch? I just drive a PBC into a mob each and they are stuck in combat unable to charge for the rest of the game, neutering almost half of a 2000 point army.
The more important part - there is not a single ork unit that even remotely compares to a castellan, LRBT, bane blades, shadow swords, basilisks, manticores in shooting. Ork shooting is easily killed, short ranged and cannot ignore LoS and mostly has less strengt, AP and damage than their imperial counterparts: Lots of units will not be in range or sight of their preferred targets turn 1. In addition, the goff will have less shooting in general, because they spent 835 on Thrakka and his skarboyz, as opposed to the 310 points spent on the loyal 32.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/28 12:43:07
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/03/28 12:45:17
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change - 5 Pts AND no legion trait. Thoughts?
MinscS2 wrote: Reading trough this thread I feel like I'm doing something massively wrong when I play IG.
Most of, if not all of my regular guardsmen are usually dead by the end of the game, even against Thousand Sons.
(Who I'm currently on a loosing-streak against, but that has more to do with my opponent using loaded dice...at least it feels that way.)
I also feel that non-guard players are massively overvaluing lasguns.
I mean sure, on occasion the humble lasgun can blast a Knight of the table, but most of the time, it's just a bunch of dice being rolled for seemingly very little effect.
10 Guardsmen without FRFSRF against a MEQ:
12-24": 9 shots, 4,5 hits, 1,5 wounds, 0,5 wounds after saves.
0-12" 19 shots, 9,5 hits, 3,16 wounds, 1,05 woundsafter saves.
At optimal range, 40 points of guardsmen killed a single MEQ. on average.
10 guardsmen with FRFSRF against a MEQ:
12-24": 18 shots, 9 hits, 3 wounds, 1 wound after saves.
0-12": 37 shots, 18,5 hits, 6,16 wounds, 2,05 wounds after saves.
At optimal range, 40 points of guardsmen and 35 points of Officer kills 2 MEQ's on average.
Yes, the firepower of Infantry Squads is gamebreaking indeed.
And I agree with those above who state that if you bring a list that can't deal with 60-80 guardsmen, then you brought a very peculiar (read: bad/un-optimized) list.
If 60-80 T3 5+ guardsmen is giving you trouble, I would like to see you deal with a swarm of Orks or Nids.
The issue with guardsmen is not surviving all game, but rather forcing the enemy to waste expensive guns and models to clear out those guardsmen over two or three so they can reach the enemy tanks/knights shelling your army unhindered.
Guardsmen are cheap and can take a lot more damage before dying than most comparable units while still providing a non-trivial amount of shooting (killing two MEQ for 75 points is GOOD for a troops unit), while you have access to powerful weapons with high range which also very hard to kill in form of leman russes, baneblades and knights. Unlike other armies, IG does not need to maneuver or move in range in order to maximize their shooting, so you are unlikely to expose something you do not want to expose. For your opponent, it means if you can't get through the guardsmen before the tanks and knights have obliterated all key targets, the game is lost.
That's kind of how guard should operate, it's just that guardsmen are bit too efficient at holding the line.
Okay, then try and fight Orks. If you can't deal with 60+ guarden, how are you going to deal with 90+ Orks, where they kill almost anything they touch in CC thanks to Skarboys, Ghaz and Exploding 6s?
pretty simple for guard or most armies to deal with those orks. The issue is the guardsmen are a way to cheap screen with a mediocre offinsive capability. so those orks are the threat and cannot break through more than 1 rank of 3 bubblewrapped ranks in front of tanks. If there are guardsmen left in a squad they fall back without penalty and set up as a screen again, and might even get to fire on the orks that charged them. meanwhile those 30 man squads of boys are hemoraging orks and due to a low leadership once youdrop em below 10 they are probably runing away.
Skarboys is not great and costs CP Ghaz is overcosted by around 30% for what he does compared to imperium optins... btu that is just how orks work according to GW
as for the cultists part here... I do think they are a 5 point model as well.
10000 points 7000 6000 5000 5000 2000
2019/03/28 14:47:30
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Here's the thing. 90% of this forum is dedicated to group counseling people venting about math. Seriously. Less than 1 post about positive changes or happiness in the game this forum is dedicated to.
The General Forums is the Youtube comments section of Dakka Dakka.
2019/03/28 15:13:38
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Here's the thing. 90% of this forum is dedicated to group counseling people venting about math. Seriously. Less than 1 post about positive changes or happiness in the game this forum is dedicated to.
The General Forums is the Youtube comments section of Dakka Dakka.
Good point.
In general, I am very happy with the upcoming Chaos changes, I see a lot of dusty units that might be fun to play, even if not completely competitive. There you go, at least the post is partial positive.
Chaos players are generally salty because almost every single rules update in the game up until about 6 months ago, delivered some kind of nerf to the army. This is not hyperbole, this is documented fact, please feel free to take a look, hell, we'd get nerfed when completely unrelated codices would drop, it was absurd.
Removed - BrookM
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/28 17:47:09
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
2019/03/28 15:15:49
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
For april fools, the mods could implement something that replaces all variants of "guardsmen" with random troops from other armies and watch the world burn.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/03/28 15:46:34
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Jidmah wrote: For april fools, the mods could implement something that replaces all variants of "guardsmen" with random troops from other armies and watch the world burn.
The mods replacing 'guardsmen' with 'Grey Knight Strike Squads' would make my day.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2019/03/28 17:26:41
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Jidmah wrote: For april fools, the mods could implement something that replaces all variants of "guardsmen" with random troops from other armies and watch the world burn.
The mods replacing 'guardsmen' with 'Grey Knight Strike Squads' would make my day.
Holy crap, single best idea in Dakka history.
2019/03/28 17:45:24
Subject: Re:Chaos Cultist new change - 5 Pts AND no legion trait. Thoughts?
Pleasestop wrote: Okay, then try and fight Orks. If you can't deal with 60+ guarden, how are you going to deal with 90+ Orks, where they kill almost anything they touch in CC thanks to Skarboys, Ghaz and Exploding 6s?
First of all... that's what you are taking as an example?
None of that is anywhere near competitive. Skarboyz are less survivable than imperial guardsmen, cost 7 points per model and a CP per unit, Ghaz is a overcosted by a lot and the goff kulture is nothing but overkill. In addition, if I can kill 60 guardsmen (240 points) with heavy bolter shots, those same heavy bolters will kill 74 skarboyz (518 points and 3 CP). And that's not even considering that those skarboyz can't chose to be in cover.
Second - Kill almost anything they touch? I just drive a PBC into a mob each and they are stuck in combat unable to charge for the rest of the game, neutering almost half of a 2000 point army.
The more important part - there is not a single ork unit that even remotely compares to a castellan, LRBT, bane blades, shadow swords, basilisks, manticores in shooting. Ork shooting is easily killed, short ranged and cannot ignore LoS and mostly has less strengt, AP and damage than their imperial counterparts: Lots of units will not be in range or sight of their preferred targets turn 1. In addition, the goff will have less shooting in general, because they spent 835 on Thrakka and his skarboyz, as opposed to the 310 points spent on the loyal 32.
Not to be an imperial apologist but it is simply untrue that ork weapons have less AP/Strength/ and damager than imperial counter parts. Most of their big guns have AP-4 and high damage. The only thing making them worse is they don't hit as good...Unless they are freebootas...in which case they are just better. In general - orks are pretty dang good.
What do orks lack? They don't have undercosted infantry.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/03/28 17:48:34
Subject: Re:Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Not to derail the thread or anything but I keep seeing this mention of 10 Imperial Guard tanks in fictional Games were somehow they all have line of sight and can all be covered by this other fictional wall of 60 bodies that all seemed to get cover despite you having none and somehow you're not bringing enough of anything else to be able to do any damage to them.
Also I never understood the hate of basilisks. I mean I know they get the rerolls of number of shots so even if you always got six shots you only ever hit three times dealing usually around two wounds that can be multiplied to 4 on average after damage. If you're shooting at hiding infantry typically you're only killing two. And if you're shooting a tank it probably couldn't hide anyways bus negating its ignore line of sight.
2019/03/28 18:15:11
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Des702 wrote: Not to derail the thread or anything but I keep seeing this mention of 10 Imperial Guard tanks in fictional Games were somehow they all have line of sight and can all be covered by this other fictional wall of 60 bodies that all seemed to get cover despite you having none and somehow you're not bringing enough of anything else to be able to do any damage to them.
Also I never understood the hate of basilisks. I mean I know they get the rerolls of number of shots so even if you always got six shots you only ever hit three times dealing usually around two wounds that can be multiplied to 4 on average after damage. If you're shooting at hiding infantry typically you're only killing two. And if you're shooting a tank it probably couldn't hide anyways bus negating its ignore line of sight.
Your missing the prblem of ignoring LoS it means you can park your basilisks in a corner behind some terrain and your opponents ability to effect them is almost negligible.
Now if Cultists had some of that shenanigans to screen they might be worth 5ppm
2019/03/28 18:17:01
Subject: Re:Chaos Cultist new change - 5 Pts AND no legion trait. Thoughts?
Pleasestop wrote: Okay, then try and fight Orks. If you can't deal with 60+ guarden, how are you going to deal with 90+ Orks, where they kill almost anything they touch in CC thanks to Skarboys, Ghaz and Exploding 6s?
First of all... that's what you are taking as an example?
None of that is anywhere near competitive. Skarboyz are less survivable than imperial guardsmen, cost 7 points per model and a CP per unit, Ghaz is a overcosted by a lot and the goff kulture is nothing but overkill. In addition, if I can kill 60 guardsmen (240 points) with heavy bolter shots, those same heavy bolters will kill 74 skarboyz (518 points and 3 CP). And that's not even considering that those skarboyz can't chose to be in cover.
Second - Kill almost anything they touch? I just drive a PBC into a mob each and they are stuck in combat unable to charge for the rest of the game, neutering almost half of a 2000 point army.
The more important part - there is not a single ork unit that even remotely compares to a castellan, LRBT, bane blades, shadow swords, basilisks, manticores in shooting. Ork shooting is easily killed, short ranged and cannot ignore LoS and mostly has less strengt, AP and damage than their imperial counterparts: Lots of units will not be in range or sight of their preferred targets turn 1. In addition, the goff will have less shooting in general, because they spent 835 on Thrakka and his skarboyz, as opposed to the 310 points spent on the loyal 32.
Not to be an imperial apologist but it is simply untrue that ork weapons have less AP/Strength/ and damager than imperial counter parts. Most of their big guns have AP-4 and high damage. The only thing making them worse is they don't hit as good...Unless they are freebootas...in which case they are just better. In general - orks are pretty dang good.
What do orks lack? They don't have undercosted infantry.
You also forgot that most of their AP-4 High Damage guns are pretty overcosted or on bad platforms.
2019/03/28 18:32:50
Subject: Re:Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Your missing the prblem of ignoring LoS it means you can park your basilisks in a corner behind some terrain and your opponents ability to effect them is almost negligible.
Now if Cultists had some of that shenanigans to screen they might be worth 5ppm
This was always something they could do and no one cared before...
Honestly losing one to two guys a turn to a unit that's desperately trying to make its points back it's not particularly scary in my eyes. besides that Gun shield is fairly tall so there's not a lot of terrain to hide behind you can usually hide one maybe two Max on a board. I mean whirlwinds can do this and they wound at pretty much the same rate with a little less AP. But no one seems to care about them. Since the edition change I'd say my basilisks do less without templates...
As for fixing IS points and cultist I would say they are not significant different enough to warrant different points and should both be 5 points. The points granularity doesn't allow for it.
2019/03/28 18:39:50
Subject: Re:Chaos Cultist new change - 5 Pts AND no legion trait. Thoughts?
Pleasestop wrote: Okay, then try and fight Orks. If you can't deal with 60+ guarden, how are you going to deal with 90+ Orks, where they kill almost anything they touch in CC thanks to Skarboys, Ghaz and Exploding 6s?
First of all... that's what you are taking as an example?
None of that is anywhere near competitive. Skarboyz are less survivable than imperial guardsmen, cost 7 points per model and a CP per unit, Ghaz is a overcosted by a lot and the goff kulture is nothing but overkill. In addition, if I can kill 60 guardsmen (240 points) with heavy bolter shots, those same heavy bolters will kill 74 skarboyz (518 points and 3 CP). And that's not even considering that those skarboyz can't chose to be in cover.
Second - Kill almost anything they touch? I just drive a PBC into a mob each and they are stuck in combat unable to charge for the rest of the game, neutering almost half of a 2000 point army.
The more important part - there is not a single ork unit that even remotely compares to a castellan, LRBT, bane blades, shadow swords, basilisks, manticores in shooting. Ork shooting is easily killed, short ranged and cannot ignore LoS and mostly has less strengt, AP and damage than their imperial counterparts: Lots of units will not be in range or sight of their preferred targets turn 1. In addition, the goff will have less shooting in general, because they spent 835 on Thrakka and his skarboyz, as opposed to the 310 points spent on the loyal 32.
Not to be an imperial apologist but it is simply untrue that ork weapons have less AP/Strength/ and damager than imperial counter parts. Most of their big guns have AP-4 and high damage. The only thing making them worse is they don't hit as good...Unless they are freebootas...in which case they are just better. In general - orks are pretty dang good.
What do orks lack? They don't have undercosted infantry.
You also forgot that most of their AP-4 High Damage guns are pretty overcosted or on bad platforms.
its also ignoring that most of that stronger shooting are made of tissue paper (but not costed as if they were) and if freebootas in order to get the +1 to hit they have to be within 24 inches of a unit that destroyed a unit. and it is just that phase. So to properly use you have to overkill something (not easy with BS5+ and random shot weapons) and then you get that .16% better hit chance. usually you are better off with badmoons for rerolls of 1 or deathskulls for one reroll to hit and one reroll to wound per unit. as for being "pretty dang good" that must be why they did so well at LVO and have been placing so high in tournaments... oh wait...
10000 points 7000 6000 5000 5000 2000
2019/03/28 18:43:08
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Des702 wrote: Not to derail the thread or anything but I keep seeing this mention of 10 Imperial Guard tanks in fictional Games were somehow they all have line of sight and can all be covered by this other fictional wall of 60 bodies that all seemed to get cover despite you having none and somehow you're not bringing enough of anything else to be able to do any damage to them.
Also I never understood the hate of basilisks. I mean I know they get the rerolls of number of shots so even if you always got six shots you only ever hit three times dealing usually around two wounds that can be multiplied to 4 on average after damage. If you're shooting at hiding infantry typically you're only killing two. And if you're shooting a tank it probably couldn't hide anyways bus negating its ignore line of sight.
Your missing the prblem of ignoring LoS it means you can park your basilisks in a corner behind some terrain and your opponents ability to effect them is almost negligible.
Now if Cultists had some of that shenanigans to screen they might be worth 5ppm
Honestly guard, cultists, all of it should be more like 9-10 ppm. Their numbers are to large, it doesn’t reflect fluff really well. When I can have more guardian defenders than guardsman or cultists it’ll be fluffy
2019/03/28 21:37:02
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Des702 wrote: Not to derail the thread or anything but I keep seeing this mention of 10 Imperial Guard tanks in fictional Games were somehow they all have line of sight and can all be covered by this other fictional wall of 60 bodies that all seemed to get cover despite you having none and somehow you're not bringing enough of anything else to be able to do any damage to them.
Also I never understood the hate of basilisks. I mean I know they get the rerolls of number of shots so even if you always got six shots you only ever hit three times dealing usually around two wounds that can be multiplied to 4 on average after damage. If you're shooting at hiding infantry typically you're only killing two. And if you're shooting a tank it probably couldn't hide anyways bus negating its ignore line of sight.
Your missing the prblem of ignoring LoS it means you can park your basilisks in a corner behind some terrain and your opponents ability to effect them is almost negligible.
Now if Cultists had some of that shenanigans to screen they might be worth 5ppm
Honestly guard, cultists, all of it should be more like 9-10 ppm. Their numbers are to large, it doesn’t reflect fluff really well. When I can have more guardian defenders than guardsman or cultists it’ll be fluffy
If a guardsmen is 9 ppm, what is a Scion?
If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed.
2019/03/28 21:50:48
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Des702 wrote: Not to derail the thread or anything but I keep seeing this mention of 10 Imperial Guard tanks in fictional Games were somehow they all have line of sight and can all be covered by this other fictional wall of 60 bodies that all seemed to get cover despite you having none and somehow you're not bringing enough of anything else to be able to do any damage to them.
Also I never understood the hate of basilisks. I mean I know they get the rerolls of number of shots so even if you always got six shots you only ever hit three times dealing usually around two wounds that can be multiplied to 4 on average after damage. If you're shooting at hiding infantry typically you're only killing two. And if you're shooting a tank it probably couldn't hide anyways bus negating its ignore line of sight.
Your missing the prblem of ignoring LoS it means you can park your basilisks in a corner behind some terrain and your opponents ability to effect them is almost negligible.
Now if Cultists had some of that shenanigans to screen they might be worth 5ppm
Honestly guard, cultists, all of it should be more like 9-10 ppm. Their numbers are to large, it doesn’t reflect fluff really well. When I can have more guardian defenders than guardsman or cultists it’ll be fluffy
If a guardsmen is 9 ppm, what is a Scion?
You really did not understand that statement as sarcasm?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/28 21:51:06
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/03/28 21:55:13
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Des702 wrote: Not to derail the thread or anything but I keep seeing this mention of 10 Imperial Guard tanks in fictional Games were somehow they all have line of sight and can all be covered by this other fictional wall of 60 bodies that all seemed to get cover despite you having none and somehow you're not bringing enough of anything else to be able to do any damage to them.
Also I never understood the hate of basilisks. I mean I know they get the rerolls of number of shots so even if you always got six shots you only ever hit three times dealing usually around two wounds that can be multiplied to 4 on average after damage. If you're shooting at hiding infantry typically you're only killing two. And if you're shooting a tank it probably couldn't hide anyways bus negating its ignore line of sight.
Your missing the prblem of ignoring LoS it means you can park your basilisks in a corner behind some terrain and your opponents ability to effect them is almost negligible.
Now if Cultists had some of that shenanigans to screen they might be worth 5ppm
Honestly guard, cultists, all of it should be more like 9-10 ppm. Their numbers are to large, it doesn’t reflect fluff really well. When I can have more guardian defenders than guardsman or cultists it’ll be fluffy
If a guardsmen is 9 ppm, what is a Scion?
You really did not understand that statement as sarcasm?
Bobthehero wrote:Yeah Apple, you dropped your sarcasm-o-meter or something
Don’t you guys remember? There have been a few people over time talking about increasing point limits for armies for better granularity, as well as bringing all point costs up. I thought this was one of those.
If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed.
2019/03/28 22:51:42
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Des702 wrote: Not to derail the thread or anything but I keep seeing this mention of 10 Imperial Guard tanks in fictional Games were somehow they all have line of sight and can all be covered by this other fictional wall of 60 bodies that all seemed to get cover despite you having none and somehow you're not bringing enough of anything else to be able to do any damage to them.
Also I never understood the hate of basilisks. I mean I know they get the rerolls of number of shots so even if you always got six shots you only ever hit three times dealing usually around two wounds that can be multiplied to 4 on average after damage. If you're shooting at hiding infantry typically you're only killing two. And if you're shooting a tank it probably couldn't hide anyways bus negating its ignore line of sight.
Your missing the prblem of ignoring LoS it means you can park your basilisks in a corner behind some terrain and your opponents ability to effect them is almost negligible.
Now if Cultists had some of that shenanigans to screen they might be worth 5ppm
Honestly guard, cultists, all of it should be more like 9-10 ppm. Their numbers are to large, it doesn’t reflect fluff really well. When I can have more guardian defenders than guardsman or cultists it’ll be fluffy
If a guardsmen is 9 ppm, what is a Scion?
You really did not understand that statement as sarcasm?
Bobthehero wrote:Yeah Apple, you dropped your sarcasm-o-meter or something
Don’t you guys remember? There have been a few people over time talking about increasing point limits for armies for better granularity, as well as bringing all point costs up. I thought this was one of those.
Yes, however this one posted and I paraphrase, "there are to much IG or cultists on the board and too little guardians, due to fluff we should increase the points on IG and Cultists therefore"
Fluff = guardian= eldar = desperate last ditch defenders of a dying species.
IG)/cultists = human = waaaaaaay to many around to care about.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2019/03/28 23:15:24
Subject: Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
Des702 wrote: Not to derail the thread or anything but I keep seeing this mention of 10 Imperial Guard tanks in fictional Games were somehow they all have line of sight and can all be covered by this other fictional wall of 60 bodies that all seemed to get cover despite you having none and somehow you're not bringing enough of anything else to be able to do any damage to them.
Also I never understood the hate of basilisks. I mean I know they get the rerolls of number of shots so even if you always got six shots you only ever hit three times dealing usually around two wounds that can be multiplied to 4 on average after damage. If you're shooting at hiding infantry typically you're only killing two. And if you're shooting a tank it probably couldn't hide anyways bus negating its ignore line of sight.
Your missing the prblem of ignoring LoS it means you can park your basilisks in a corner behind some terrain and your opponents ability to effect them is almost negligible.
Now if Cultists had some of that shenanigans to screen they might be worth 5ppm
Honestly guard, cultists, all of it should be more like 9-10 ppm. Their numbers are to large, it doesn’t reflect fluff really well. When I can have more guardian defenders than guardsman or cultists it’ll be fluffy
If a guardsmen is 9 ppm, what is a Scion?
You really did not understand that statement as sarcasm?
Bobthehero wrote:Yeah Apple, you dropped your sarcasm-o-meter or something
Don’t you guys remember? There have been a few people over time talking about increasing point limits for armies for better granularity, as well as bringing all point costs up. I thought this was one of those.
Yes, however this one posted and I paraphrase, "there are to much IG or cultists on the board and too little guardians, due to fluff we should increase the points on IG and Cultists therefore"
Fluff = guardian= eldar = desperate last ditch defenders of a dying species.
IG)/cultists = human = waaaaaaay to many around to care about.
Acts like I care about the knife-ears and their social roles.
If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed.
2019/03/28 23:28:23
Subject: Re:Chaos Cultist new change and thoughts on Guard as alternative?
I didn't do that?!'
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DKoK Blog:
Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey