Drukhari 8th Codex [old see new]

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**Niiai**

I just think your picture was very big for some reason.

**the_scotsman**

I use the Namarti Reavers as my mandrakes since mandrakes are primarily shooting-based it makes more sense to me for them to have bows and knives for the glimmersteel blades.

Namarti are great fun kits, highly recommend. I have only ever used 10 mandrakes though, 2x5 I think if you had like 30 you'd have a hard time finding enough space to deep strike them efficiently. It's like when people run full scion lists.

**flamingkillamajig**

@the_scotsman: That might be true with mandrakes and squad sizes. Its very true for buldings with scourge. I cant tell you how hard it is to play more than 5 or 7 od those mofos on any floor esp. Given how top heavy they are. Let's be real though scourge have sucked since the start of 8th and if changes don't happen I don't see them being useful any time soon. Honestly not giving them obsessions ruined them.

Back to mandrakes though I haven't used them but they sound fun. My only issues with them is against enemies with really good BS that dinky little -1 to hit isn't gonna save them. Also the shooting sounds nice but it's still just 1 wound at T 3 per model. I imagine they're not bad but light infantry are in a bad spot right now. Even wracks might be too soft to really be on the board. As far as mandrakes go I find it cool they have -1 to be hit in melee. That is not something we see a lot.

**the_scotsman**

flamingkillamajig wrote:
@the_scotsman: That might be true with mandrakes and squad sizes. Its very true for buldings with scourge. I cant tell you how hard it is to play more than 5 or 7 od those mofos on any floor esp. Given how top heavy they are. Let's be real though scourge have sucked since the start of 8th and if changes don't happen I don't see them being useful any time soon. Honestly not giving them obsessions ruined them.

Back to mandrakes though I haven't used them but they sound fun. My only issues with them is against enemies with really good BS that dinky little -1 to hit isn't gonna save them. Also the shooting sounds nice but it's still just 1 wound at T 3 per model. I imagine they're not bad but light infantry are in a bad spot right now. Even wracks might be too soft to really be on the board. As far as mandrakes go I find it cool they have -1 to be hit in melee. That is not something we see a lot.

Naw, mandrakes are suuuuper obnoxious for dropping onto the far corner of the board behind a piece of obscuring terrain and Deploying Scramblers. My opponents HATE these guys. I've literally never made a shooting attack with mandrakes in 9th and they've been absolute champions every game. A unit with a -1 to hit, FNP, and an invuln save that natively deep strikes and has the infantry keyword would have to be BONKERS overcosted to not be useful in 9th missions, and Mandrakes are not.

I just dont know if they're the backbone of an army. The key is not that they're the single toughest thing to bring down, the key is the amount of resources your opponent has to redirect from important parts of the battle to try and stop them from scoring secondary points on them for free. And they have a delicious tendency to be just a little bit more durable than your opponent anticipates so they scoot a unit of Outriders or an Ork Buggy or something over so they can get a shot at them, and then all those unexpected defenses make the damage not quite enough to wipe the squad out.

**Amishprn86**

I always take 1 unit no matter what, they are just to useful IMO. But yeah not good enough for the backbone of an army.

**wuestenfux**

Amishprn86 wrote:
I always take 1 unit no matter what, they are just to useful IMO. But yeah not good enough for the backbone of an army.

Mandrakes are a perfect distraction unit.
As soon as they appear at the battlefield, the enemy has to deal with them.
So 1 or 2 units are perfectly fine.
It gives a Drukhari army more variety.

**vipoid**

the_scotsman wrote:

Naw, mandrakes are suuuuper obnoxious for dropping onto the far corner of the board behind a piece of obscuring terrain and Deploying Scramblers. My opponents HATE these guys. I've literally never made a shooting attack with mandrakes in 9th and they've been absolute champions every game. A unit with a -1 to hit, FNP, and an invuln save that natively deep strikes and has the infantry keyword would have to be BONKERS overcosted to not be useful in 9th missions, and Mandrakes are not.

I just dont know if they're the backbone of an army. The key is not that they're the single toughest thing to bring down, the key is the amount of resources your opponent has to redirect from important parts of the battle to try and stop them from scoring secondary points on them for free. And they have a delicious tendency to be just a little bit more durable than your opponent anticipates so they scoot a unit of Outriders or an Ork Buggy or something over so they can get a shot at them, and then all those unexpected defenses make the damage not quite enough to wipe the squad out.

Ah, so they're more like mini Distraction Carnifexes than core units?

Amishprn86 wrote:
I always take 1 unit no matter what, they are just to useful IMO. But yeah not good enough for the backbone of an army.

Hmm, that's a shame. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

**Amishprn86**

If we could buff units like Marines or CWE then i would say sure, but we get no buffs.

**vipoid**

Amishprn86 wrote:
If we could buff units like Marines or CWE then i would say sure, but we get no buffs.

I know DE don't have psykers, but I really wish we could have something else in that sort of role (either buffing allies or debuffing enemies).

A little like how Necrons get C'tan powers and such.

**BlaxicanX**

That's exactly what haems should have been.

**vipoid**

BlaxicanX wrote:
That's exactly what haems should have been.

More of an aside really, but one of the things I dislike about our army since 7th is that it's so lacking in interactions.

Power from Pain used to reward you for killing enemies. Now it's just a table that advances each turn regardless of anything else. You could rename it and put it straight into the Necron codex and I doubt anyone would bat an eye.

And all our HQs just have auras and 0 other abilities. Hence why the Archon's main role is standing between 3 Ravagers like the Living Statue. And the Haemonculus likewise just stands between his creations which makes them tougher somehow.

I don't know, I guess I just wish we had some more interesting decisions to make.

**harlokin**

While I don't love the PFP rules, they could at least give Kabals, Cults, and Covens their own tables.

**the_scotsman**

eh, in terms of decision making I still have the PFP table to account for and the combat drugs on all my stuff, so I usually feel like I"m thinking a little more with my drukhari than with most of my armies anyway.

**vipoid**

Probably a silly question, but I don't suppose anyone is running Ynnari?

I was wondering if it was any better in 9th - either because of the ASF mechanic or because running Kabal and Cult in the same detachment might be a little more useful now.

Also, does anyone know if Ynnari-Drukhari Patrol detachments count for the Raiding Force bonus?

**Amishprn86**

vipoid wrote:
Probably a silly question, but I don't suppose anyone is running Ynnari?

I was wondering if it was any better in 9th - either because of the ASF mechanic or because running Kabal and Cult in the same detachment might be a little more useful now.

Also, does anyone know if Ynnari-Drukhari Patrol detachments count for the Raiding Force bonus?

I do a lot, i actually like Ynnari buffs in 9th and I can mix wyches and kabals lol.

My list is normally along the lines of

Archon - Warden, Hunger blade (makes him a beat stick, Str 7, 6 attack) you can also do this for a Succubus with +1str drug for Str 8)
Archon - Walker of many Paths (Gain more CP and sits back for more re-rolls)
Sslyth x2
Yvarine
Kabal
Kabal
Wych x10 - Rzorflails, BP
Wych x10 - Rzorflails, BP
Wych x10 - Rzorflails, BP
Reavers
Reavers
Ravager
Ravager
Reaper
Raider
Raider
Raider
Venom
Venom

Optional, I sometimes take 6+ RWF's and a BM. I take out the 2 Sslyths and some Bikes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh i forgot to talk about the wyches, Razorflails are amazing, gives the unit +6 more attacks on average, given that you can re-roll hits of 1's and wounds for a unit b.c of Yvarine power, those bonus attacks really adds up,. I have 1 unit with +1atk, 1 with +1str, and 1 with +2" movement on average, Reavrs are +1T and +12 LD (they can run and charge in Ynnari with 1CP, so i try and use them to tank things I know they can, having Tough and LD helps with that) why not give Reaver the +2" movement? B.c 26" movement is good enough most the time and Wyches having it has helped me more so.

With +1atk, and 3D3 attacks, the Razorflails are 5 attack each on average. I have shredded all kinda of things in melee with them. With +atk, a unit has about 46 attacks (2 base, +1 for weapon/Sargent, +1 for Drug thats 4 base for 40 attacks, then +3D3) In cursed blade it works just as well but in Ynnari its even better b.c of the re-rolls to wound. Not bad for a 130pts unit. FOr Harlequins to get that they need to be in FS with 9 models, thats 180pts, sure they all are ap and str 5, but over all its a really good point investment as its 50pts less for about the same damage, with more wounds, FNP, and still a 4++ in melee. EDIT: 140pts if you are taking BP's and PS.

I have used Shardnets a few times and honestly they just didn't seem worth it for 10pts, i either fully kill the unit I charged, or he sits in combat so I can not charge other units, or its against non infantry and doesn't matter. I have only used No Escaped 2x out of using wyches in 10+ games.

At 1k, Ynnari is my go to army, its OP at 1k with Reavers, Wyches, Archon, Yvarine, Reapers and Raiders. Reavers turn 1 charging things can mean the world (Its a 9man at 1k instead of 2x6 mans), wyches having insane amounts of attacks will clear any unit of things and my Wych army can have Reavers with Archon that that gives both re-rolls.

**vipoid**

Cheers for that answer, Amishprn86.

It's nice to hear that Ynnari DE can be decent in 9th, at least in lower point games.

Also interesting to hear how effective Razorflail Wyches are (at least relative to their point cost) with the Ynnari rerolls.

Out of interest, do you consider Razorflails on a Wych better than an Agoniser on the Hekatrix? (I ask simply because they're the same price.)

In any case, I might well give a list along these lines a go. Thanks very much.

**Denegaar**

Yeah I really want to play Wyches and Reavers, and the Trio are soooo cool, maybe I try something similar too in my 1500pt games with friends.

**Amishprn86**

vipoid wrote:
Cheers for that answer, Amishprn86.

It's nice to hear that Ynnari DE can be decent in 9th, at least in lower point games.

Also interesting to hear how effective Razorflail Wyches are (at least relative to their point cost) with the Ynnari rerolls.

Out of interest, do you consider Razorflails on a Wych better than an Agoniser on the Hekatrix? (I ask simply because they're the same price.)

In any case, I might well give a list along these lines a go. Thanks very much.

I see no point in Agoniser honestly, i just take a Power sword. I would say the Hek with weapon is equal to a Razorflail b.c one is more attacks but the other is higher AP.

Yeah, for 1k games, if you go first with Ynnari and Reavers you basically get to charge w/e you want. I did that in a game and it was so strong turn 1 we reset and I didn't charge instead b.c I was able to charge his WL and 2 other units, also I had 3 HL's and actually got 1 wound through killing a Judicar (he has no invul vs shooting lol). And b.c we had obscuring he wouldn't have been able to shoot them anyways if he went first, really he gave me first turn b.c he didn't think i could go that far that fast and the table was so small he was 5" from the back edge (for fallbacks just in case). It was really gross.

I think all Aeldari are OP at 1k after playing it a few times even vs Marines. I had a Marine player try Dreads even (b.c they can shoot into melee) but i just out score to fast.

**VladimirHerzog**

@Amishprn86

Sadly you can't give your succubus the hungering blade so no S8 attacks from her :(

**Amishprn86**

VladimirHerzog wrote:
@Amishprn86

Sadly you can't give your succubus the hungering blade so no S8 attacks from her :(

I forgot they took her PS away... IDK why, but her little ones gets power swords.... Anyways you can still make a Str8 in Red Grief if you like her like that. I was going off memory as i don't play Succubi in Ynnari (15+ yrs of DE rules in my head lol)

**Denegaar**

What about the Yncarne? I keep reading online that he is really good in 9th!

**Amishprn86**

I use Yncarne a lot in Quins, i just don't like it in DE even thought i have a unique Yncarne just for my DE (its one of my favorite units). https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/1068408-Yscarloth%20as%20DE%20Yncarne.html?m=2

**wuestenfux**

Denegaar wrote:
What about the Yncarne? I keep reading online that he is really good in 9th!

It requires some practicing to you it in the right way.
Otherwise, I'd stay away from it.
For instance, move it only in the opponent turn due to its special rules.

**Amishprn86**

I use it a lot, just not in DE. Its one of my favorite models in the game. Its just the way i'm playing DE Ynnari doesn't fit for me.

**wuestenfux**

Amishprn86 wrote:
I use it a lot, just not in DE. Its one of my favorite models in the game. Its just the way i'm playing DE Ynnari doesn't fit for me.

In competitive play, I find that the Yncarne is too expensive.
Yvraine is suitable for a DE army.

**flamingkillamajig**

Just got done with my game of 9th ed 40k today and i dunno if i should take 3 large units of bikes honestly. I ran 33 and i have to say if you use blasters getting in close to blow apart vehicles and monsters is often not ideal. The mortal wounds flubbing didn't help but they under-performed. It also didn't help 8th helped ruin flying units jumping out of combat and shooting.

His army was death guard and i honestly had the upper hand i think but i was a bit annoyed about some stuff being blown apart so i charged in when i really, REALLY shouldn't have. The bikes were however great at getting objectives quickly but i just don't think i want more than 2 units of them (24 total) in the future. All that said i don't know how i'm going to handle units with really good invulnerable saves in the future. I may have to stick to grotesques in the future for mortal wound delivery just because they're so durable esp. with their good invulnerable saves.

So to recap don't take blasters unless you maybe have kabal of obsidian rose (short range anti-tank is crap and gets charged or shot quickly or similar) and on the flip side take long ranged anti-tank and anti monster where possible. Don't take too many bikes because they are expensive and probably a bad idea but in average numbers are good for board control. If you have to take melee you're probably better off going covens though cult wyches are sorta durable in melee (sadly they die easily at range though).

Also poison weapons usually under-perform esp. against MEQ armies and esp. without ignoring cover or multiple damage.

---------

If i was to change my list i'd probably get some raiders w/ a dark lance each and take 2 blasters and a dark lance on warriors inside the raider (raider has a dark lance; warriors have 1 dark lance and 2 blasters) and go obsidian rose. Scourge have more anti-tank weapons but they die too fast. It's all so sad because the price per raider and squad of warriors is not desirable but i'm not sure i can get safe anti-tank any other way besides void ravens and dark lances on vehicles. The issue being you usually have to choose between dissies or dark lances on the same vehicles so making a choice isn't always easy. Most other options for anti-tank or anti-monster just aren't desirable due to being too squishy, endanger the unit from shooting or counter charging or too costly for what you get.

**Amishprn86**

Reavers are good in MSU's to get secondaries, objectives, body blocking,forcing them to waste shots, charging to tie up units that can not fallback, etc..

I wouldn't relay on them as a majority of your army, but 3 units is fine if they are in 3-5-6 mans. 1 larger 9-12man unit is juat as fine too.

Poison is the worst basic rule in the game IMO, sure we can wound t6+ MW's on a 4+ but with no AP, and the lack of re-rolls we have it actually isn't better math wise and then we are literally just worst vs T2-T3 in every way.

I would take Raiders for sure, not just b.c you get a strong weapon, but also having 2 layers of wounds for objectives is a must for DE.

**flamingkillamajig**

I'm also of the position that blasters are just garbage. They just don't have enough output of fire or range to be worthwhile. We'll see what the dark eldar codex for 9th brings.

**vipoid**

Amishprn86 wrote:

I see no point in Agoniser honestly, i just take a Power sword. I would say the Hek with weapon is equal to a Razorflail b.c one is more attacks but the other is higher AP.

That's a good point. I'd also forgotten that Wych weapons are AP-1, which is probably sufficient in most cases.

Amishprn86 wrote:

Yeah, for 1k games, if you go first with Ynnari and Reavers you basically get to charge w/e you want. I did that in a game and it was so strong turn 1 we reset and I didn't charge instead b.c I was able to charge his WL and 2 other units, also I had 3 HL's and actually got 1 wound through killing a Judicar (he has no invul vs shooting lol). And b.c we had obscuring he wouldn't have been able to shoot them anyways if he went first, really he gave me first turn b.c he didn't think i could go that far that fast and the table was so small he was 5" from the back edge (for fallbacks just in case). It was really gross.

I think all Aeldari are OP at 1k after playing it a few times even vs Marines. I had a Marine player try Dreads even (b.c they can shoot into melee) but i just out score to fast.

Don't let GW hear you say that.

Anyway, the one thing that saddens be about Ynnari is the 'no Mandrake' aspect. Means I have to include a separate detachment if I want any, which rather defeats the point of taking a unified detachment.

Amishprn86 wrote:

Poison is the worst basic rule in the game IMO, sure we can wound t6+ MW's on a 4+ but with no AP, and the lack of re-rolls we have it actually isn't better math wise and then we are literally just worst vs T2-T3 in every way.

Agreed about Poison being the worst basic rule in the game. I think one of the biggest problems is that it's just not efficient against most high-toughness targets, due to increased wounds, armour saves, and often FNP as well. So for the most part, you just end up firing disintegrators/blasters against those targets and using Poison against infantry.

Come to that, I'm not even sure what Poison is meant to accomplish in the first place.

I can understand it in melee, as a way to overcome our low strength scores (except not really, because while other armies get stuff like 'AP-2 D2 Poison 2+, +1 attack', we're stuck with AP-2 D1 Poison 4+), but what's the point of having it on our ranged weapons? Is it so that we can shoot poison at Monsters and Disintegrators at Infantry, because I'm not sure that would be any more useful or efficient. Maybe against Nidzilla, but I'd like to think DE might have a design philosophy beyond being a hard-counter to a particular Tyranid build.

Even in terms of fluff, it doesn't make a great deal of sense. I thought DE were most interested in taking live prisoners to use as slaves, to experiment on, or just to torture? Hence, surely if their weapons are poisoned, it should be something that debilitates enemies, rather than just wounding them more easily? (e.g. -2M, -1WS, -1BS, -1S, -1T, Fight Last, and/or can't Overwatch - really anything that makes it harder for the target to fight back, without killing it outright.).

@flamingkillamajig I think a few units of Reavers could be alright, but I'm not sure I'd want units of 11. Especially with the new blast rules. I'd probably offer similar advice to Amishprn86 and aim for 6 per unit at most.

flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'm also of the position that blasters are just garbage. They just don't have enough output of fire or range to be worthwhile. We'll see what the dark eldar codex for 9th brings.

I have to say, I don't *usually* find the range of Blasters to be much of an issue. Especially since the firers are typically in Raiders or Venoms, I don't often struggle to bring them to bear against enemies.

That said, there have been exceptions. And when they happen, it really hurts.

I mean, I can't say I'm thrilled with them. Especially given how expensive they are. It's more a case of infantry having few alternatives.

**Amishprn86**

Well in older editions you were heavily more limited so poison worked a bit better. The problem is now there is almost no limits as to what you can take. I mean Flyers, Talos, Ravagers, all where in the same 3 Heavy slots, so you had to really pick and choose. Now you can take all and more so. So why do we want a single wound guy with a weak gun?