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Amishprn86 wrote: Well in older editions you were heavily more limited so poison worked a bit better. The problem is now there is almost no limits as to what you can take. I mean Flyers, Talos, Ravagers, all where in the same 3 Heavy slots, so you had to really pick and choose.
The trouble is, monsters and such faced the same restriction. So while you might have been more limited in Ravagers, you could also expect to see far fewer monsters across the table.
The only thing that could be fielded in large quantities was vehicles . . . and poison is (and was) utterly useless against them.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Amishprn86 wrote: Well in older editions you were heavily more limited so poison worked a bit better. The problem is now there is almost no limits as to what you can take. I mean Flyers, Talos, Ravagers, all where in the same 3 Heavy slots, so you had to really pick and choose.
The trouble is, monsters and such faced the same restriction. So while you might have been more limited in Ravagers, you could also expect to see far fewer monsters across the table.
The only thing that could be fielded in large quantities was vehicles . . . and poison is (and was) utterly useless against them.
But my point wasn't about MC/Tanks it was that we HAD to take something to fill, it normally was Trueborns in elite, Beasts and Reavers in Fast attack, and then full troops with transports. So you had to relay on poison, it was common to have a couple gun boats just for massive shooting against Marines and Terminators b.c you need Dark weapons for all the transports. There were times 4 Trueborns wasn't enough to pop a tank, so I couldn't waste my other 1 Dark weapons on marines. Unless it was GK's b.c they didn't take a lot of vehicles and were OPlol.
Now in 8th/9th they are 100% trash b.c they are optional, when you are so heavily limited and how armor/AP worked, -1ap in the past was equal to ap6 which didn't do anything to a lot of units. So poison wasn't equal to all other troop guns vs anything above orks as a lot of basic guns were str 3 (other than Marines and a couple others) so it was common to wound on 4+ and no ap. That is not the case anymore. Other armies have evolved for the most part and we did not.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/06 16:52:41
Just had another game and probably lost the hardest i've lost in a while. I think after turn 2 there was no coming back from it. In some ways i did it to myself since he had khorne units with a 3d6"+1 re-rollable charge and i didn't screen the general area well enough.
If i have to say reavers are great for grabbing and holding objectives (unless shifted with serious resistance), screening other units and not a whole lot else. I probably won't ever take more than 24 again. I'm not sure how they handle with heat lances but honestly they're probably better taking mostly bare except for grav talons esp. since 9th took away flyers ability to shoot if they jumped back out of combat which makes shooting with bikes mostly a waste. If i need a unit that actually can hurt things in melee i'll probably take grotesques instead of reavers.
Blasters are just garbage. The were probably ok when they were cheaper but they're just crap now esp. if you don't take the obsidian rose boost. Scourge get shot off the table without issue, reavers in general are too short ranged and expensive, blasters are short ranged and will be charged if you don't screen or have a unit to handle melee units with, most other anti-tank is short ranged and most of the rest of our anti-tank and anti-monster competes between the same few units that have dissies.
Honestly poison is worse than it's ever been as far as i can tell. In 7th you could do the spammed venoms approach where you could move quickly and shoot 12 poison shots at 36" range without issue. Also they had a role if you shot them vs bikers or had lots of poison vs things like necron wraith units or something. The general point was in 7th poison could hurt monstrous infantry like tyrant guard, carnifex and ogryns but since 8th things got more wounds, cover boosted armor and poison stayed just as weak and in some cases got weaker. What i wouldn't give for armor penetration on poison even if it's just -1 AP but the only thing with that in our whole army is Covens of 12 wracks in melee which people probably never really took and multiple damage in very specific cases. Only time we ever got both was electro-corrosive whips which were admittedly good but only can be taken one per acothyst and one per haemonculus.
I'll admit wyches can surprise me if they are stuck in melee with something but for the most part except for our aircraft and 2 decent sized screens of naked reavers i generally won't take wych cults. Sadly my future list will be 18-24 reavers with 2 units of 9 or 2 units of 12, at least 10 grotesques out of DS maybe, 3 dissie ravagers, 2 void ravens with void lance, maybe take dissies or dark lance on our jets if possible, go for either 3 units of shredder scourge since they've improved or blaster scourge and then go for raiders with warriors inside with dark lance and dark lance on raider. I may use obsidian rose to throw 2 more blasters in each raider but honestly probably a bad idea. I'm thinking using scourge is also a bad idea unless i take them with shredders for possible hordes but even then i'm not feeling good about them since they always disappoint these days due to being fragile. Anyway i'm going to see what i can fit in a 2,500 pts list. The venoms are definitely going away as poison is garbage.
The last two armies i faced were just a ball of death in one form or another. Honestly using melee against them or even being closer than 24" is not ideal. If i really have to i'll use obsidian rose and i may use reavers or grotesques to screen if i absolutely feel like i'll be charged in melee but that's only if dark lances, dissies and void lances can't do the job i need them for. I need to play test it. Luckily that shouldn't be very hard.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/06 22:50:07
Regarding Blasters, I can definitely see them being an issue for Scourges. Though I think that's at least partially a problem with Scourges being overly expensive, relative to their (almost nonexistent) durability.
It means that, assuming you deep strike them, you can expect to get off a single round of shooting before they're blown away. And Blasters just aren't reliable enough for that - especially when you can't even let them reroll 1s to hit.
Blasters on Reavers seemed to be a 'YMMV' thing even in 8th. I tended to take them, partially because my Reavers tended to feel rather toothless otherwise (even in combat), and partially because after 7th I was used to squeezing as many anti-vehicle weapons as possible into every list.
However, I definitely don't think they're an auto-take on Reavers. Especially if you're using Red Grief, as they conflict with your ability to Advance and still charge (you can still do it but then you're only hitting on 4s).
It's difficult, because Blasters are expensive and not particularly reliable. However, as above, I generally find that a lot of DE units end up feeling completely toothless without them.
On that note, how are people finding Shredders? Are they preferable to Blasters on Warrior squads at the moment?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
I'm thinking shredders could be alright in a list of scourge. It's a short ranged weapon regardless and if you ever face a swarm too big to handle with anything else the new blast rules will make sure shredders get the job done.
----------------
I'm a little unsure about my new list i just made this second. I got so frustrated with transports and vehicles i just went "**** IT!" and outside of 3 dissie ravagers and poisoned shooting it's mostly what i took.
The wych cult part is test of skill and slashing impact. My kabal is Obsidian Rose. I took 2 units of 12 reavers with blasters and grav talons (8 of each total and 24 reavers), 2 archons with blast pistols, 1 succubus with blast pistol, 2 void ravens with 2 void lances per aircraft, 6 dark lances (3 from warriors in raiders and 3 from raiders themselves) and 6 blasters from warriors in raiders.
So 4 void lances, 14 blasters, 3 blast pistols and 6 dark lances. 27 lance weapons total are in one 2500 pts list and then i put 3 dissie ravagers in there for 27 dissie shots with archons nearby for re-roll 1's to hit.
Obsidian rose should give my dark lances and dissies 42" range in case i need that extra range. The blasters are 24" with some reaver support for blocking in case it comes to that. Sadly the 8 reaver blasters are 18" and i'd rather not take them but if i'm taking the reavers anyway it might just be cheaper to take them with blasters than whole other units.
This is probably a dangerous list to make because it mostly relies on either poison, reavers in melee or dissies but hopefully it worked out. Against a horde of tough units i might be in trouble. I was unsure if i should take the void ravens honestly but void raven missiles and the bomb should help for anti-infantry concerns if it comes down to that. I could've probably taken 3 units of 5 scourge for 15 scourge in order to get 12 blasters but test of skill with void lances mean vs toughness 8 i'm wounding on 2's instead of 4's and it'll probably live longer.
I'm unsure if i should just spam blasters or go the dark lance route but considering i could take anti-tank on both i sorta just did. At least if i move the -1 to hit for moving infantry with dark lances can't be debuffed harder. I'm probably gonna use dark lances more but i may be better off spamming blasters and just using reavers as a screen. I suppose we'll just have to see.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/07 00:44:07
Hey guys! About to run a small bracketed tournament between a few of my friends of the armies and models that we own.
I played DE for a little while in 8th, took them to a small tournament and did pretty good, but they've been shelved for a good while taking a backseat to the shiny golden boys.
Now I'm very aware that DE got hurt bad by the 9th changes and their lack of good PA stuff, but I'm still looking forward to running them in this tourney.
The list I've written uses basically everything I own, I also have a raider with 10 guys in it. Is it the best of what I've got, is there anything I need to change, and what are the set of secondaries I'll want to look at?
There's a couple things I had to/can do to get down to 2000pts; dropping 2 blasters, downgrading 6 dissies for lances, or a mix of both. I've opted for blasters as I like the dissie saturation + it's what they're built as.
Please critique and tell me better options
And if someone could give me a crash course on what to look out for in 9th with the deldar? I'm very out of practice with them.
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/07 01:31:17
I'm not an expert in this and ive only got 3 games of 9th under my belt. I've been facing some tough fights and losing a bit. I almost won my battle yesterday if i didnt basically ruin myself. I'd say 8th needs you to have lots of anti tank. Haywire is either nice or disappointing but usually the vehicles it fights have lots of wounds and there are times when you face no vehicles at all.
There seems to be a marine meta now and dissies are needed. They were needed in 8th before the marine meta but with it they are even more important. I've been fighting mere chaos marines in massed transports and some of their weapons can be rough.
The new missions need speed which dark eldar are good at but sometimes we have trouble shifting the enemy from objectives when they're there (my current 9th experience vs death guard and the next vs khorne daemons, khorne berserkers and iron warriors). According to transport rules in 9th if you destroy the transport they can't charge you. That said ranged units in transports can fire without issue.
The biggest issue I see in your list is you're taking venoms with warriors at a time when poisoned shooting is at its absolute worst even considering 7th edition. I understand you wanting anti infantry firepower but poison is the worst at it. You have to keep in mind why so many people use disintegrators and its the 36" range and 9 shots at that range. Every other weapon in our list that's anti infantry shooting is usually at peak effectiveness within 18" or less regardless of what it is (meaning you'll be within charge range or enemy retaliation range from their shooting). You can shoot poison at longer distances but it is embarrassingly ineffective.
Sadly in 9th due to melee locking up shooting and preventing you from shooting if you flee you may want most of your anti infantry units to be disintegrators which can shoot with less chance of retaliation or if you do use short ranged shooting make sure it can hit hard, cost little and basically be a suicide unit. You can probably screen possible enemy melee charging units but thats a big maybe and a suicide anti infantry unit is much cheaper.
Almost all of our melee is geared towards anti infantry but only haemonculus covens really have a chance of being both durable and hitting back hard enough in melee against anything that's not an infantry horde or GEQ gun-line. Wych cults are more there for speed and holding enemies in melee usually as one kind of screen or another. Most of us avoid wych cult outside of reavers, wyches and succubus. Honestly you probably chose right not going for them. They're not to good right now as far as I can tell outside of objective grabbing and screening enemies.
You have 3 talos when I tend to see people take 6 in 8th. I have no experience with them so I can't judge how well they do or will do for you.
Your lack of anti tank and anti monster is kind of scary. I normally shy away from blasters but often you can take them in more plentiful numbers than dark lances. Dark lances are better for keeping the shooting unit alive. Normally in 8th your best bet was taking anti tank in raiders, flyers or ravagers I imagine. Disintegrators are good but not often vs vehicles. I also see a lack of anti tank on your warriors in transports which also seems like a bad idea. In 8th I feel like about 20 lance weapons is a good minimum to have but this may depend on what you take.
I'm new to 9th so I'm sorry if this is a bit harsh but from my limited experience with 9th and significant experience in 8th you might want to scrap half the units I mentioned in your army. Sadly you chose dark eldar when our army was leaning towards the worst it's been since 7th I think. I don't think it's as bad as 7th ed dark eldar though. We had a few fun things in 7th but it was uphill all the way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/07 05:21:49
McMagnus Mindbullets wrote: Hey guys! About to run a small bracketed tournament between a few of my friends of the armies and models that we own.
I played DE for a little while in 8th, took them to a small tournament and did pretty good, but they've been shelved for a good while taking a backseat to the shiny golden boys.
Now I'm very aware that DE got hurt bad by the 9th changes and their lack of good PA stuff, but I'm still looking forward to running them in this tourney.
The list I've written uses basically everything I own, I also have a raider with 10 guys in it. Is it the best of what I've got, is there anything I need to change, and what are the set of secondaries I'll want to look at?
There's a couple things I had to/can do to get down to 2000pts; dropping 2 blasters, downgrading 6 dissies for lances, or a mix of both. I've opted for blasters as I like the dissie saturation + it's what they're built as.
Please critique and tell me better options
And if someone could give me a crash course on what to look out for in 9th with the deldar? I'm very out of practice with them.
Thanks in advance for any feedback!
If this is what you have then that is fine. You will need to heavily pick good targets to focus on getting points. Make sure you take secondaries that flyers can also take like like Engage on all front vs Linebreaker (Flyers don't count for Linebreaker).
Tactics if what wins for DE not raw power like marines, example don't be scared to sacrifice a venom or 2 on 1 objective to keep it and have Obsec there when they die but don't do that is they are going to also charge you for example.
Heavy Support
- Talos x2 (Haywire, Scalpel and Flails)
- Reaper
Dedicated Transport
- Raider (Disintegrator)
- Venom
- Venom
That's 985pt. I could drop the Grotesques in favour of 5x Wracks more and 5 Incubi, not sure what's better. I feel it's low on Obsec Troops.
Ossefactors are better IMO, especially in DT as you would marines on 2+ always and with 2D you get a 4+ chance to deal D3 MW's, they also are 1/2 the points so you save 10pts for something else. Given they are 24" range too you can shoot every turn no matter what, and you get easier time with FnF.
What's the Reaper thing that appeared in the recent lists?
FW models are not always accepted if you go to a tourney.
I'd be more interesting in lists without the Reaper.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
wuestenfux wrote: What's the Reaper thing that appeared in the recent lists? FW models are not always accepted if you go to a tourney. I'd be more interesting in lists without the Reaper.
FW is accept is all GT's and Majors its only local RTT's that bans it b.c of bias small locals miss understanding of FW and they claim its P2W when its not. (there is 1 good unit out of 10 terrible units, but if you look at "OP" units in non FW there are about 10x more OP units from GW, so really FW isn't bad at all and most of the units are more fun than anything else). FW mostly adds to armies that are missing something, like Coven missing a Heavy tank, aka Reaper. Take the Tantalus for example, its worth 250pts but its 400pts. The places that ban FW are normally CAAC players.
The Reaper is a all obsessions Heavy Ravager like vehicle, it is either D6DL shots, or it is 2D6Str 6 no ap 1D shots that can sto a unit from Advancing. It also has 12w compare to 10w. Its in a lot of lists b.c Coven can take it and its good with DT, give you 2+ to wound and D6+1D as a solid Anti-tank/MC.
Speaking of the Reaper, its a really fun unit to play, it wasn't good in 8th not b.c its guns are heavy, and always being -1, on top of another -1 and sometimes another -1 to hit it wasn't worth it. Now it never is -1 when it moves. Its always been at the verge of playable.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/07 12:06:59
Heavy Support
- Talos x2 (Haywire, Scalpel and Flails)
- Reaper
Dedicated Transport
- Raider (Disintegrator)
- Venom
- Venom
That's 985pt. I could drop the Grotesques in favour of 5x Wracks more and 5 Incubi, not sure what's better. I feel it's low on Obsec Troops.
Ossefactors are better IMO, especially in DT as you would marines on 2+ always and with 2D you get a 4+ chance to deal D3 MW's, they also are 1/2 the points so you save 10pts for something else. Given they are 24" range too you can shoot every turn no matter what, and you get easier time with FnF.
I'll be playing vs a friends AdMech. Nastiest stuff he brings is 2 Robots and an annoying unit of deepstriking Infiltrators whith a bunch of attacks and a lot of pistol shots. Maybe the Ossefactor is better, last time he only charged with those Infiltrators, so flamers weren't really needed.
If I get 10 more points to spare maybe the idea of more bodies (5 Incubi 5 Wracks) is better than the killing power of Grotesques.
About the Reaper. It's always really good in DT, but it doesn't feel overpowered, maybe a little undercosted but the Vortex Cannon is by definition really swingy... My first game with it I one-shot a Wraithlord for 20 dmg, next one I needed two shooting phases to deal 10 to an AdMech transport. It feels like a Doomsday Ark without the small weapon fire of the arrays and less S and range on the cannon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/07 12:45:19
Yeah it is undercoated not b.c of the gun but b.c it has 2 more wounds over a Ravager while in Coven. Being 160pts is about perfect I would say. A triple DL Ravager in BH on average is 1 damage less but both still on average doesn't kill a Rhino by themselves. Though I can see GW making it 165-170s just to make it cost more than a Ravager, which means i'll only play with 1 instead of 2.
Also the Reaper is a Heavy Blast gun, so it has a pro and a con, Pro, can get more shots vs 6+ and 1+ models, Cons b.c it can not shoot while in combat.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/07 13:08:49
I reaaaaally want to run some Reavers, I love the models so much. Ideas? I just have 6, because I just wanted to buy them and build them.
I also normally play 1000pt games with friends that are learning, and it seems that Reavers are better in low point games.
A 6man is easy to put into any list, from 1k to 2k I play 6-12 most games.
Just take them cheap and use them as objectives grabbers, body blockers, tie up units, charge tanks/dreads to force to shoot them over your Obsec's, take secondaries, etc..
Our *newer* units look so good, even some 3rd edition look really really cool even now. That's why I play them
GW has us with their cool models, even with gakky rules. I'm just going to buy the Yncarne for the sake of the model and to make him appear from the dead bodies of some stupid wyches and say "ha! gotcha!" even if he dies horribly and it's a waste of 300 points.
Are you guys able to give me some advice on the 2500 pts dark eldar list I posted in army lists? I have objective taking stuff and plenty of lances both long and mid to short range but i feel like i neglected other areas such as anti infantry both heavy and MEQ. The thing is ive just been having such issues vs tanks and monsters as of late that i cant stand the enemy having so many without losing enough of em.
In my last game the opponent just took first turn and took his almost completely mounted force of chaos marines and just proceeded to go where he wanted, pop smoke and use dark apostle powers i cant even prevent with helm of spite and I couldn't stop him.
I'm also considering doing dark technomancers with hex rifles or something because the opponents heroes tend to plop right down between all their forces and I can't kill their stuff too well to get to the characters due to the aura boosts.
Well remember at over 2K you get a lot more CP's and another detachment, not like we really need a 4th one. Just something to think about in general. But hugely you still are rule of 3 even over 2K points unless doing open play or GT.
I kind of more wanted to know if my list was any good. Since we get so many CPs in 2500 pts I never feel the need to use multiple patrol detachments. It really only gets you to break even with points far as I can tell and I don't think a few CP is really worth it for us unless we do black heart. I dont feel anywhere nearly as starved for CPs like in 8th esp. With gaining a CP per friendly command phase for battle forged.
My main observation is that the list leans heavily into Kabalite Warriors and Wyches, neither of which are particularly great right now. While there is quite a bit of anti-tank, there is nothing durable enough to hold objectives except maybe the Reavers, which are IMO pretty mediocre at everything. It appears to be more of an 8th edition list than a 9th.
harlokin wrote: My main observation is that the list leans heavily into Kabalite Warriors and Wyches, neither of which are particularly great right now. While there is quite a bit of anti-tank, there is nothing durable enough to hold objectives except maybe the Reavers, which are IMO pretty mediocre at everything. It appears to be more of an 8th edition list than a 9th.
Well, if you go for a Coven list, there are more resilient units for moving forward and holding or contesting objectives.
With sufficient shooty support, such an army can be quite competitive.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
harlokin wrote: My main observation is that the list leans heavily into Kabalite Warriors and Wyches, neither of which are particularly great right now. While there is quite a bit of anti-tank, there is nothing durable enough to hold objectives except maybe the Reavers, which are IMO pretty mediocre at everything. It appears to be more of an 8th edition list than a 9th.
Well, if you go for a Coven list, there are more resilient units for moving forward and holding or contesting objectives.
With sufficient shooty support, such an army can be quite competitive.
I'm sure you'e correct. My bias is no doubt showing through because I prefer a mix of the two for tactical flexibility. Regardless, I would always try and squeeze in at least one unit of Mandrakes for objectives, and a Sslyth or two for actions.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/10 10:52:41
harlokin wrote: My main observation is that the list leans heavily into Kabalite Warriors and Wyches, neither of which are particularly great right now. While there is quite a bit of anti-tank, there is nothing durable enough to hold objectives except maybe the Reavers, which are IMO pretty mediocre at everything. It appears to be more of an 8th edition list than a 9th.
The warriors are more there for anti-tank weapons. I only take wyches for combat drugs spreading around. I think you guys said i could change drugs based on the turn though.
The reavers are more for screening shooting units, more anti-tank and objective scoring. Personally i'd prefer to have other units since reavers are expensive and while semi-durable aren't that great (at least against a dedicated melee unit). I kind of want to take a unit of 10 grotesques somewhere but i dunno how well those will do. I'm still curious if grotesques work better with 4+ inv. save from prophets of flesh or -1 damage artists of flesh trait. I think 4+ inv. save is generally more helpful for what i face due to lots of single damage attacks but both can be good in their own way.
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God I just crunched numbers together again and I'm almost wondering if I should try this like I originally planned esp. With overwatch nerfed in 9th. You see a while back I thought about buffing hellions with a crap ton of obsessions. It'd almost surely die in a turn but it could potentially do some damage esp. With the damage 2 shenanigans. I may try a unit of 20 or more ds'ing at the enemy with art of pain (+1 to power from pain turn table so +1 to WS on turn 2 when in melee) and test of skill. Finally I'd give them +1 attack combat drugs. On average against monsters and vehicles under t8 that's 60 attacks, 50 hits, 25 wounds and for 3+ save it's 16 wounds. For a 2+ save it's over 8 wounds. It could use some tweaking but it's late so maybe tomorrow.
Dark technomancers may also be good in the future and acothysts and haemonculus with hex rifles and DT should be good. It might actually give me a solid chance at killing off enemy heroes and considering all the buff heroes and even more methods of screening heroes that could be good. They usually put heroes in the middle of a crap ton of units so the hex rifles should be almost necessary.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/11 06:48:33
With Marines now having faster vehicles than us, do we even have a single niche left?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Marines have leeched all the playstyles in the game, not just ours. They have chapters shootier than Tau, chapters better at melee than Orks, chapters with better vehicles than AM, chapters faster than Aeldari...
They have no flavor at all, Primaris are just a mess of rules, and that made SM a bland faction overall that shredded all the lore that was behind them.
I loved the idea of Adeptus Astartes, super elite hard to create human dudes that fought for mankind, with super hard to produce weapons and hardly winning any battles vs the forces of Chaos and Xenos across the galaxy. Now it's a joke, Primaris are an insult to the Astartes lore.
The point of Dark Eldar are the players that play them, I'm proud of playing The Dark Kin and I would not change it for anything. The lore and the models is what I like about the game, not the game itself that was broken by Primaris.
I will send my Venoms and Raiders and laugh (while I die) to that new Landspeeder that they got. Have you seen that model? It has a smurf encased to the back, it looks like a toy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/13 10:19:51
Denegaar wrote: Marines have leeched all the playstyles in the game, not just ours. They have chapters shootier than Tau, chapters better at melee than Orks, chapters with better vehicles than AM, chapters faster than Aeldari...
They have no flavor at all, Primaris are just a mess of rules, and that made SM a bland faction overall that shredded all the lore that was behind them.
I loved the idea of Adeptus Astartes, super elite hard to create human dudes that fought for mankind, with super hard to produce weapons and hardly winning any battles vs the forces of Chaos and Xenos across the galaxy. Now it's a joke, Primaris are an insult to the Astartes lore.
I don't disagree. But Primaris lore being a joke sadly doesn't make the game any more fun.
The point of Dark Eldar are the players that play them, I'm proud of playing The Dark Kin and I would not change it for anything. The lore and the models is what I like about the game, not the game itself that was broken by Primaris.
I fear that while I like the dark kin and while I enjoy converting models for them, I got into this game for the game. So that fact that Primaris have sucked in all other playstyles and faction identities is quite a blow for me. Not helped by the fact that 7th pulled the plug on our options, and everything GW has done since then has been more widdling on our corpse.
I will send my Venoms and Raiders and laugh (while I die) to that new Landspeeder that they got. Have you seen that model? It has a smurf encased to the back, it looks like a toy.
Yeah, the SM head poking through a hole in the turret is just comical. And there's something about the two pilots that makes them look less like elite warriors flying through a warzone and more like an old, married couple on their way to the seaside.
Sadly, though, for all that I laugh, I'm unable to get away from the fact that that ugly, bulky hover-tank is still faster than a Raider.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
I agree totally that ruleswise it makes no sense and it's a little insulting to all the other armies, but I think that if we play Xenos is because we really love the army, and we are happy to play it even in really rough moments like this one.
The day I lose this way of thinking will be the day I take a break from 40k and play another game with another awesome army.
Take my opinion with a grain of salt though, as I normally play very casually with friends that play armies that go toe to toe with mine (Tyranids, AdMech, Craftworlds). Probably if I was playing in a shop where 80% is waac marine players I would think differently.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
