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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





They could be power axes with 1d3 damage, but no strength buff outside of what the normal power axe gives. D2 is probably more likely though.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, really interested in the rules for the shield as well. Sisters already get a flat 6+ invul.

I could see it giving them a 2+/5++. Then, it would give things that boost invul to 4++ a purpose while also making these melee celestians more potent even if you don't use invul boost bubbles.

Keep in mind that I expect the celestians to still be Toughness 3, which would help balance it all out. They'll take more wounds overall than a terminator, and likely not have more ablative wounds to resist, so a 2+/4++ on a celestian wouldn't mean nearly as much as it would on a T4, 3 wound terminator.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/18 01:10:42


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

I see a a very high chance of it being a Storm Shield - 4++ with a +1 to Armor Save.

Slightly less likely is just the 4++.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sarouan wrote:
You're trying to say that using a halberd and shield as fighting style is a suspension of disbelief in 40k.
No.

My point, which I thought was perfectly clear, was that the more fantastical the universe, the more the simple things stick out when they're not right. In a world with space-ships and daemons from another dimension, it's going to be things like "one-handed halberds" that stand out as weird.

And I see we've just skipped past the Inquisitorial Acolyte stuff now that you've been shown to have no idea what the rest of us were talking about.



The problem is your point is stupid. The first part is blatantly false, in a world of space magic and tentacle monsters, no one gives a gak if small stuff is also weird. "Oh yeah, I was super enjoying the rape daemons and floating cathedral tanks, but then I noticed that the field medic's pack had 3 bandage rolls in it instead of 2 and it totally took me out of it!"

Secondly...why wouldn't a one hand halberd work in this case? She's wearing power armor so it's not like she can't physically manuever it and 90% of everything she'll fight is roughly twice as tall as she is. If anything swiping at the bad guy's knees with a regular power sword is more ridiculous.

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

ERJAK wrote:
The problem is your point is stupid.
Thanks for joining in.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






ERJAK wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Sarouan wrote:
You're trying to say that using a halberd and shield as fighting style is a suspension of disbelief in 40k.
No.

My point, which I thought was perfectly clear, was that the more fantastical the universe, the more the simple things stick out when they're not right. In a world with space-ships and daemons from another dimension, it's going to be things like "one-handed halberds" that stand out as weird.

And I see we've just skipped past the Inquisitorial Acolyte stuff now that you've been shown to have no idea what the rest of us were talking about.



The problem is your point is stupid. The first part is blatantly false, in a world of space magic and tentacle monsters, no one gives a gak if small stuff is also weird. "Oh yeah, I was super enjoying the rape daemons and floating cathedral tanks, but then I noticed that the field medic's pack had 3 bandage rolls in it instead of 2 and it totally took me out of it!"

Secondly...why wouldn't a one hand halberd work in this case? She's wearing power armor so it's not like she can't physically manuever it and 90% of everything she'll fight is roughly twice as tall as she is. If anything swiping at the bad guy's knees with a regular power sword is more ridiculous.


Your point is stupid

Using halberds one handed has got nothing to do with weight. Halberds are not heavy, about 4kg max. When you use a halberd one handed what you’ve essentially got is just an axe with an impractically long handle.

Oh, and I totally agree with HBMC about things needing to be grounded in a sense of faux reality for the more fanciful stuff to not just be ridiculous. Opinions differ, but that’s ok. I don’t really think you’re stupid because your opinion is different to mine
   
Made in fi
Charging Wild Rider





ERJAK wrote:
Secondly...why wouldn't a one hand halberd work in this case? She's wearing power armor so it's not like she can't physically manuever it and 90% of everything she'll fight is roughly twice as tall as she is. If anything swiping at the bad guy's knees with a regular power sword is more ridiculous.
Why is the shape of a halberd the way it is? The long pole is to 1) have an extended range, and 2) to enable the weapon to be held with 2 hands, so as to make it manoeuvrable. If the power armour's strength allows the easy wielding of a heavier weapon, it can just be a particularly heavy axe, no reason to have the long stick. If the weapon's range is necessary for supposedly large enemies, it should be held at the lowest end of the weapon which is apparently feasible with the supposed added strength (the wrist section would have to do a huge amount of heavy lifting, literally). Somewhat regardless of the mythical properties of power armour, there is still no denying that strength will be limited, and fighting faster or with a heavier weapon would be possible if a weapon more suitable for the role was used. A spear for a somewhat longer weapon held in one hand, a shorter bladed weapon for chopping things one-handedly, or a polearm used with two hands.

Yes, yes, 40k isn't real, nor always remotely realistic. But physics still apply on some level, affecting balance points, thus affecting weapon design and use. The weapon being larger and thicker than would be realistic is part of the aesthetics of the range and limitations of model production, but this is a more basic nonsensical issue. It's like giving a sniper a throwing axe instead of a rifle, or models having heavily armoured legs but an exposed torso. Unless there's a solid in-universe reason for it to make sense, well, it won't make sense. Just because you might not care about this particular issue (as I have personally largely stopped caring about characters not wearing bloody helmets), does not make it a less valid point of criticism.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




One handed pole-arm style weapons are hardly new in 40K (even without power armour, etc..).

Spoiler:


Nor is the Sister even stuck in a rigid box that would physically prevent her from swining/leveraging the pole-arm in theory, unlike literally every Custodes model. Etc..



   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






Sunny Side Up wrote:
One handed pole-arm style weapons are hardly new in 40K (even without power armour, etc..).

Spoiler:


Nor is the Sister even stuck in a rigid box that would physically prevent her from swining/leveraging the pole-arm in theory, unlike literally every Custodes model. Etc..





Just because you can point to another miniature using a pole arm one handed doesn’t make it less stupid. Yes, there is nothing stopping you from swinging a polar one handed, but why would you choose to do it. The extra length below your hand becomes a hindrance not a help and you’d be better off with an axe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/18 10:35:24


 
   
Made in ie
Fresh-Faced New User



Dublin, Ireland

FFS, page after page around why or why not a halberd would work in 40k....
Even for Dakka this is a load of bollix.
Rule of cool applies, it looks awesome and adds to the range. That should be enough.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 MonkeyBallistic wrote:


Just because you can point to another miniature using a pole arm one handed doesn’t make it less stupid. Yes, there is nothing stopping you from swinging a polar one handed, but why would you choose to do it. The extra length below your hand becomes a hindrance not a help and you’d be better off with an axe.


Because it's not breaking with the continuity of the last 30 years.

Space Marine shoulderpads are anatomically stupid, doubly so with the more anime-proportioned Primaris. But that's 40K.

Similarly, to fit every action-movie logic, the 10 people with tactical armour, helmets and assault rifles are harmless goons that get killed off in a blink, while the one guy without a helmet and only a jagged knife is the scary part that get's a 5 minute action scene. That's why the "important" figures don't wear helmets in 40K.

Lengthy posts about how it breaks your immersion is no different then me going on about how the Hulk transformation, weight/body mass changes, etc.. don't work as a radiation-induced change in the MCU or how the time-travel-changes in Everybody knows that, but getting hung up about it kinda missing the genre conventions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/18 10:42:12


 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






Sunny Side Up wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:


Just because you can point to another miniature using a pole arm one handed doesn’t make it less stupid. Yes, there is nothing stopping you from swinging a polar one handed, but why would you choose to do it. The extra length below your hand becomes a hindrance not a help and you’d be better off with an axe.


Because it's not breaking with the continuity of the last 30 years.

Space Marine shoulderpads are anatomically stupid, doubly so with the more anime-proportioned Primaris. But that's 40K.

Similarly, to fit every action-movie logic, the 10 people with tactical armour, helmets and assault rifles are harmless goons that get killed off in a blink, while the one guy without a helmet and only a jagged knife is the scary part that get's a 5 minute action scene. That's why the "important" figures don't wear helmets in 40K.

Lengthy posts about how it breaks your immersion is no different then me going on about how the Hulk transformation, weight/body mass changes, etc.. don't work as a radiation-induced change in the MCU or how the time-travel-changes in Everybody knows that, but getting hung up about it kinda missing the genre conventions.


Mate, I actually don’t have a problem with the one handed halberd. I’m just pointing out that some of the arguments that people are using to justify it don’t make sense. I’m only objecting to illogical arguments, not the mini itself.

The only justification needed is, rule of cool. Rule of cool trumps every other consideration. Anyone who thinks this looks cool is welcome. Anyone who doesn’t, well their opinion isn’t wrong either.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





At this point, it's better to ignore anything trying to go back to this sterile debate on halberd fighting style.

So I'll just do that.


Mmmpi wrote:They could be power axes with 1d3 damage, but no strength buff outside of what the normal power axe gives. D2 is probably more likely though.


Indeed, I was thinking about it afterwards. But then the repentia eviscerator are already D2 and pretty much "high strength - AP" weapons already. Wonder if D3 wouldn't make more sense in the case of celestians.

Or maybe they'll remake the eviscerator profile as well ?

Either way, I think it should be pertinent to keep them distinctive from each other.



drbored wrote:Yeah, really interested in the rules for the shield as well. Sisters already get a flat 6+ invul.

I could see it giving them a 2+/5++. Then, it would give things that boost invul to 4++ a purpose while also making these melee celestians more potent even if you don't use invul boost bubbles.

Keep in mind that I expect the celestians to still be Toughness 3, which would help balance it all out. They'll take more wounds overall than a terminator, and likely not have more ablative wounds to resist, so a 2+/4++ on a celestian wouldn't mean nearly as much as it would on a T4, 3 wound terminator.


alextroy wrote:I see a a very high chance of it being a Storm Shield - 4++ with a +1 to Armor Save.

Slightly less likely is just the 4++.


Yes, I'm leaning more towards storm shields as well.

But honestly, it's hard to say what GW will do with the rules. I mean, we also have the Parangon Battlesuits and I already felt those would be something with high armor as well to make them different from the Penitent Engines / Mortifiers.

In fact, what's really confusing is that these new miniatures feel like they will be fitting the same role than other existing units. And we don't even know what other new units there will be in the new codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/18 12:57:44


 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

Christ allmighty, you people are still going?

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Mate, I actually don’t have a problem with the one handed halberd. I’m just pointing out that some of the arguments that people are using to justify it don’t make sense. I’m only objecting to illogical arguments, not the mini itself.
Ditto. I don't give two gaks if she's wielding one-handed or two-handed. She could be swinging it no-handed, using her mind, for all I care.

It's just that some people take issue with the little things in a fantastical universe don't hold up to scrutiny, and that "But there are space ships and warp daemons so you need to accept this!" isn't a valid counter argument.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in de
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin




Hmm. I see where the guys arguing against the halberd are coming from but is it really more immersion breaking to you than the most iconic, one-handed 40K weapon - the chainsword?
   
Made in ca
Missionary On A Mission






I'm looking forward to fielding the new Celestians with maces. Conversions from the old metals of course. Some different weapon options on the Palatine would be nice especialy an Inferno Pistol.

Sisters of Battle
Genestealer Cults
Daemons lots of Daemons
Daughters of Khaine
Bretonnians

 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sarouan wrote:

In fact, what's really confusing is that these new miniatures feel like they will be fitting the same role than other existing units. And we don't even know what other new units there will be in the new codex.
I suspect these new shield sisters will fill a role similar to Bladeguard Veterans. Tough models to shift (thanks to a Storm Shield) with decent CC bite to stand on objectives and hold them.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ordana wrote:
I suspect these new shield sisters will fill a role similar to Bladeguard Veterans. Tough models to shift (thanks to a Storm Shield) with decent CC bite to stand on objectives and hold them.


I don't know, I actually see the Parangon Battlesuits on that role. I mean, a big part of the Bladeguard Veterans' resistance is also because they have multiple wounds. I really don't see these new celestians having that.

But then if you can fit a 10 models with storm shield resistance, they may be like the Crusaders in their golden age ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/18 19:22:48


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 alextroy wrote:
I see a a very high chance of it being a Storm Shield - 4++ with a +1 to Armor Save.

I wish, but equally likely is chance of them being combat shields (because these come with built in pistols, not storm shields).

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Using halberds one handed has got nothing to do with weight. Halberds are not heavy, about 4kg max. When you use a halberd one handed what you’ve essentially got is just an axe with an impractically long handle.

Oh, and I totally agree with HBMC about things needing to be grounded in a sense of faux reality for the more fanciful stuff to not just be ridiculous. Opinions differ, but that’s ok. I don’t really think you’re stupid because your opinion is different to mine

Your point is still wrong because problem with using halberd one handed is the fact it's difficult to cut anything with it. This is power halberd that does cutting for user so any argument "it won't work" is just plain incorrect, and that with using it with just one bare arm, never mind power armour one.

You two behave like people asking where the horses in front of Rhinos and Land Raiders are, because it's totally unrealistic for a wagon to move on its own. And where are the wheels and drawbar?

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Space Marine shoulderpads are anatomically stupid, doubly so with the more anime-proportioned Primaris.

If you think primaris with actual human anatomy are the bad ones (and not pre-2017 squats with gorilla arms, detached shoulders, lacking half of spine and with split pelvis) maybe you should buy glasses. Or actually look up how strong adult humans look like, you'll be surprised
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






Irbis, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about, but you’re obviously so convinced you’re right I’ll let it go
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Hmm. I see where the guys arguing against the halberd are coming from but is it really more immersion breaking to you than the most iconic, one-handed 40K weapon - the chainsword?
That ship sailed so long ago that nobody cares any longer. I just try to not think too much about them because they are 100% Rule of Cool instead of remotely realistic. But if you can't get over chainswords, you can't embrace 40K at all because everyone and their brother seems to use some sort of chain weapon.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
The problem is your point is stupid.
Thanks for joining in.


Isn't it nice to know the good folk here at dakka will give you that high quality, big brain assessment of your statements such as " Your point is stupid." . I find it both insightful and refreshing to get such well meaning honesty handed out in what I am sure is a very constructive way. I imagine, much like it would for me, it brought a smile to your face instantly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Irbis, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about, but you’re obviously so convinced you’re right I’ll let it go


You can't always agree with someones truth but you can always appreciate the force with which they press it at you.

I, for one, look forward to embracing our new horse drawn rhinos and land raiders. Them horseless buggy things never sat right with me either, the devil I say.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/19 01:25:33


 
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




UK

Sunny Side Up wrote:


Space Marine shoulderpads are anatomically stupid, doubly so with the more anime-proportioned Primaris. But that's 40K.

Similarly, to fit every action-movie logic, the 10 people with tactical armour, helmets and assault rifles are harmless goons that get killed off in a blink, while the one guy without a helmet and only a jagged knife is the scary part that get's a 5 minute action scene. That's why the "important" figures don't wear helmets in 40K.



Shoulder pads not working in real life is why both Dredd movies have turned a Judge's shoulder pads into a form of body armour harness. What looks good on a page doesn't necessarily translate to real life.

As for models with no helmets? I always consider that the model is a snapshot of a warrior in action. In some cases, the helmet has already taken damage and been removed and it iisn't always the case that the soldier has gone jnto battle without it.

Works for me anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 04:27:51


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It'll be interesting to see how they differentiate the various melee units that we're getting.

It's nice to be getting options that aren't just the various repentant and punished. Really, those were the only units that were melee. Arco flagellants, repentia, and penitent engines and mortifiers. Oh, other than the zephyrim. So, having more melee options that are full non-punished sisters will be nice.

I'm sure the celestians will carry over some sort of bodyguard rule like the current celestians have. The power suits I'd expect to have higher toughness and higher strength. Carrying heavy weapons into battle isn't bad either. Then you've got the zephyrim for high ap and high number of attacks, and then the repentia that have very reliable damage. So what we're missing out of this is stuff that's high strength and high damage, or stuff that's high attack numbers but low damage.

May not seem all that important to have all of those things, but anything that lets you build neat lists without falling back on the one or two units that can do X well (in this case, melee) is a good thing in my book, even if it's just for variety's sake, visually.
   
Made in us
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion





grahamdbailey wrote:
FFS, page after page around why or why not a halberd would work in 40k....
Even for Dakka this is a load of bollix.
Rule of cool applies, it looks awesome and adds to the range. That should be enough.


I wish I could exalt you 100 times.

So, this week there will be a "big reveal" I guess. I wonder if part of it will be announcements for the next round of codexes?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 09:45:46


 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Togusa wrote:
grahamdbailey wrote:
FFS, page after page around why or why not a halberd would work in 40k....
Even for Dakka this is a load of bollix.
Rule of cool applies, it looks awesome and adds to the range. That should be enough.


I wish I could exalt you 100 times.

So, this week there will be a "big reveal" I guess. I wonder if part of it will be announcements for the next round of codexes?


They said "big model reveals" but I didn't see any preview on twitch settled for next saturday so far. Usually they tell us sunday about that.

Wonder if it's not like "monday model reveal", an article here and there with one model previewed.

So I expect the Adepta Sororitas will have a couple more in those.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I was wondering if we'd see a new sister reveal today, but looking at the last one they said "we’ll be bringing you a new instalment every couple of week."

Shame, but I guess it's something to look forward to
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Portland

Sunny Side Up wrote:
anime-proportioned Primaris.


??????
   
Made in au
Tunneling Trygon








Spoiler:


New character, Aestred Thurga

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/26/this-battle-sister-has-it-all-faith-a-sword-and-an-absolutely-massive-banner/
   
 
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