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Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

I take the "here is your new codex, take whatever you want against your friend, most of it is viable and some stuff might be bonkers" of 9th anyday everyday compared to "you might or might not get a codex for this edition. When it releases you have to spam the same three entries over and over again to be viable and even that might not be enough to go to tournaments lol" of older editions.

I don't think it is preposterous at all.

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
a_typical_hero wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Or maybe not. Because that was what I was expecting since all 9th codex have been of nearly the same quality. But I have to admit the "previews" by GW and the "leaks" caught to me and make me start to feel anxious. Like drukhari players I assume? Do people remember how most people was bananas about GW butchering their 9th codex by the previews and leaks and then when released it was absurdly strong and even the not OP units were usable and competitive? Yeah of course we all remember. 73% remember.
I feel like not enough people give credit for this. What's happening with the internal and external balance so far is pretty much unprecedented since 3rd edition. Maybe even earlier, but I didn't play 1st and 2nd.


I don't know if you misunderstood what Galas was getting at or not but it's preposterous to suggest that this is unprecedented in terms of external balance. Two 70%+ winrate books basically in a row is pretty close to good ol' 7e. And I know, the lows are higher and the have nots aren't in as bad shape as they used to be, but GW doesn't really deserve praise for external balance right now. Maybe 4 months ago or whatever.


Actually I was recognising GW the quality of 9th books. Yeah, Drukhari were bonkers. And Admech are the same way. All other books are much more similar in power. And Drukhari as a book is great, the same goes for Admech. Nearly everything is usable. The brokenes came from a couple of rules and wombo combos of the awfull Day-1 DLC and some undercosted units wich allready had their price increased. And the same and simple solutions are needed for Admech. And unlike past editions, GW will fix them in tops 2-3 months.

Maybe thats because in my country tournaments still arent popular because covid so my perception of this is just more chill and I didn't cared that it took a month and a half to "fix" Drukhari.

But as others have said, 9th is the first edition were I'm reading a codex and I'm like "Damm. All the units I like , I feel they have actually a place and I could make them work". Also crusade rules are cool. But I hate the cutted fluff, specially the bestiaries.

Of course now people will come and say how everything is broken or whatever but as someone that plays regularly... nah. Thats not how the game is.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/20 16:42:07


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:

I just like Tankbustas way more. Same point cost, and anecdotally I've found damage flat 3 tends to cold-cock a lot more units these days than damage flat 2, and flat 2 is a lot easier to get on a lot of our melee units and options - anything with a power klaw, anything with a big choppa, most HQs, etc. Kind of like shoota boyz - even if they were half-decent for their points, what's the point? What do you need a couple extra S4 AP- d1 shots for?


You're going to want a mix of both, I think. Especially when there are no vehicles to target.

4 Lootas do 3.5 to a DE boat. 4 TBs on the move ( for comparison ) do 3.5 as well.

TBs for Gravis, T*, and low invuln. Lootas for Ballistari, DE boats, marines, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
I don't know if you misunderstood what Galas was getting at or not but it's preposterous to suggest that this is unprecedented in terms of external balance. Two 70%+ winrate books basically in a row is pretty close to good ol' 7e. And I know, the lows are higher and the have nots aren't in as bad shape as they used to be, but GW doesn't really deserve praise for external balance right now. Maybe 4 months ago or whatever.


It really depends on what they wind up doing about AdMech. Right now DE is definitely taking a back seat. 7e also would have left that 70% WR stand far longer than the month DE got. Will Admech get sorted as quickly? Probably not. My guess is the next Big FAQ, which I have no idea when that would occur these days. September? December?





Maybe I'm wrong, but I still think the DE issue is that admech pushed them down. The non-DT/Stupid Succubus stuff my buddy brings still dumpsters my Necrons (my most capable army right now) just as hard.

Anyway, to your point, yeah, GW could still do an AdMech nerf, I should be open minded about that. And it's weird that they haven't announced a new Big FAQ structure; I guess because tournaments are only now kicking back into gear but it would be appreciated regardless.

To the other folks, I agree with you, internal balance is the best it's ever been, bar none (and that's great). But I think it's also clear that GW has some major quality control issues still. I was thinking they'd really turned a page but in some sense it's still same old same old. That's why it's hard for me to celebrate them too enthusiastically.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Daedalus81 wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:

I just like Tankbustas way more. Same point cost, and anecdotally I've found damage flat 3 tends to cold-cock a lot more units these days than damage flat 2, and flat 2 is a lot easier to get on a lot of our melee units and options - anything with a power klaw, anything with a big choppa, most HQs, etc. Kind of like shoota boyz - even if they were half-decent for their points, what's the point? What do you need a couple extra S4 AP- d1 shots for?


You're going to want a mix of both, I think. Especially when there are no vehicles to target.

4 Lootas do 3.5 to a DE boat. 4 TBs on the move ( for comparison ) do 3.5 as well.

TBs for Gravis, T*, and low invuln. Lootas for Ballistari, DE boats, marines, etc.


....but if I DONT move my TBs (or if i, for example, get them +1 to hit by making them Freebootas) I'm actually BETTER at shooting at drukhari boats, balistarii, etc. And the extra AP and strength and Blast make TBs often better vs MEQ anyway.

The only real reason to include Lootas over TBs for your shooty needs is their interaction with Speedwaaagh, which I am really not convinced is going to see any play when standard waagh is so much stronger and doesnt require you to take the very dubious deffkilla wartrike.

Maybe if Dakka is indeed Assault. That's one of the few remaining unknowns.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





I wouldn't be surprised if Orks win even more than admech are winning now. The new freeboota trait is exceptionally busted.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 IanMalcolmAbs wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Orks win even more than admech are winning now. The new freeboota trait is exceptionally busted.



....it's exactly the same as the old freeboota trait except now it's not 24" range?

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hard to see the Freeboota trait being busted. It should serve as a tonic against MSU lists (although I kind of feel DE/Ad Mech will continue to counter Orks quite hard, but maybe I'm wrong) while doing relatively little if you run into a few blobs of Terminators.
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




Where on earth are people getting this "internal balance of the 9th codexs" going on? Wanna talk to my hundreds of Pox Walkers? How about my scarabs and spiders? Pretty sure there are still a few awful choices in the codexs that have come out, just because MORE things are useful.

The Ork codex is shaping up to be more of the same, some really good stuff but a lot of stuff that is still not worth taking. I am very disappointed in Deffdreads being unchanged except for their point cost. Burnas, Boyz, Lootas, Grots, and more are looking to be binned like they have been for a very long time. Trukk Boyz have some play but that is the ONLY way to run Boyz anymore. A lot of the Beastsnagga stuff looks pretty damn good as well as the buggies. The fact that you can put Ghaz in his own personal pimp wagon is hilarious. There are good things in the codex but it is really upsetting to see something like Burnas which were already awful nerfed for no apparent reason.
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Where on earth are people getting this "internal balance of the 9th codexs" going on? Wanna talk to my hundreds of Pox Walkers? How about my scarabs and spiders? Pretty sure there are still a few awful choices in the codexs that have come out, just because MORE things are useful.

The problem with having 100 Poxwalkers isn't that the unit itself is not worth it now, is it? Whats wrong with Scarabs and Spiders?

Personally speaking, what I mean with "good internal balance" is that you can take most options (not all, see SM Scouts) without trouble to a friendly game and have a fun match. That was not the case in my area in previous editions.

Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




a_typical_hero wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Where on earth are people getting this "internal balance of the 9th codexs" going on? Wanna talk to my hundreds of Pox Walkers? How about my scarabs and spiders? Pretty sure there are still a few awful choices in the codexs that have come out, just because MORE things are useful.

The problem with having 100 Poxwalkers isn't that the unit itself is not worth it now, is it? Whats wrong with Scarabs and Spiders?

Personally speaking, what I mean with "good internal balance" is that you can take most options (not all, see SM Scouts) without trouble to a friendly game and have a fun match. That was not the case in my area in previous editions.


The unit is absolutely not worth it. Poxwalkers are just worthless now, even a squad of twenty with the amount of fire power that 9th codexs can put out makes them so squishy and slow that they just aren't worth the points. A 5 man squad of Plague Marines is just better, plus I am already forced to take Plague Marines as my troops anyway.

I loved running a massive wave of Poxwalkers because it was something unique that I couldn't do with any other army but now, because GW can't be assed to make Plague Marines more appealing so they just mandate that you take Plague Marines.

Plus, the balance of the game is so heavily skewed if you compare 8th codexs to 9th codexs in the first place.

Back on topic, Orks have a lot of duds in their new codex and I definitely count Boyz among them.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Arbiter_Shade wrote:
a_typical_hero wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Where on earth are people getting this "internal balance of the 9th codexs" going on? Wanna talk to my hundreds of Pox Walkers? How about my scarabs and spiders? Pretty sure there are still a few awful choices in the codexs that have come out, just because MORE things are useful.

The problem with having 100 Poxwalkers isn't that the unit itself is not worth it now, is it? Whats wrong with Scarabs and Spiders?

Personally speaking, what I mean with "good internal balance" is that you can take most options (not all, see SM Scouts) without trouble to a friendly game and have a fun match. That was not the case in my area in previous editions.


The unit is absolutely not worth it. Poxwalkers are just worthless now, even a squad of twenty with the amount of fire power that 9th codexs can put out makes them so squishy and slow that they just aren't worth the points. A 5 man squad of Plague Marines is just better, plus I am already forced to take Plague Marines as my troops anyway.

I loved running a massive wave of Poxwalkers because it was something unique that I couldn't do with any other army but now, because GW can't be assed to make Plague Marines more appealing so they just mandate that you take Plague Marines.

Plus, the balance of the game is so heavily skewed if you compare 8th codexs to 9th codexs in the first place.

Back on topic, Orks have a lot of duds in their new codex and I definitely count Boyz among them.


This reads as fairly out of touch with what's good in 40k.
   
Made in ca
Charing Cold One Knight





I loved running a massive wave of Poxwalkers because it was something unique that I couldn't do with any other army but now, because GW can't be assed to make Plague Marines more appealing so they just mandate that you take Plague Marines.


You know you can also take Blightlords and Death Shrouds to unlock Poxwalkers. Same goes for Death Guard Possessed.

I haven't run Plague Marines since the codex landed and I average between 60-80 poxwalkers in my list.

The unit is absolutely not worth it. Poxwalkers are just worthless now, even a squad of twenty with the amount of fire power that 9th codexs can put out makes them so squishy and slow that they just aren't worth the points. A 5 man squad of Plague Marines is just better, plus I am already forced to take Plague Marines as my troops anyway.


Poxwalkers on their own are just cheap(dirt cheap) chaff. It's the stratagems that unlock the unit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 22:04:32


-Primary Armies -
Craftworlds | Dark Angels | Death Guard | Sisters of Battle | Chaos Knights | Flesh-Eater Courts | Idoneth Deepkin

- Secondary Armies -
Drukhari | Necrons || Tyranids | Daughters of Khaine | Blades of Khorne | Stormcast Eternals
 
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




 Eldarsif wrote:
I loved running a massive wave of Poxwalkers because it was something unique that I couldn't do with any other army but now, because GW can't be assed to make Plague Marines more appealing so they just mandate that you take Plague Marines.


You know you can also take Blightlords and Death Shrouds to unlock Poxwalkers. Same goes for Death Guard Possessed.

I haven't run Plague Marines since the codex landed and I average between 60-80 poxwalkers in my list.

The unit is absolutely not worth it. Poxwalkers are just worthless now, even a squad of twenty with the amount of fire power that 9th codexs can put out makes them so squishy and slow that they just aren't worth the points. A 5 man squad of Plague Marines is just better, plus I am already forced to take Plague Marines as my troops anyway.


Poxwalkers on their own are just cheap(dirt cheap) chaff. It's the stratagems that unlock the unit.


You know I gotta be honest, I have been playing my DG a LOT in 9th and I completely forgot that Blightlords and Deathshrouds counted towards that...Damn, gonna have to revisit my list.

I know that that strat makes Poxwalkers decent once you get them in but you do it once and your opponent is going to see it coming a mile away and it is not difficult to take Poxwalkers down to a place where they are no longer a threat. I just feel like Poxwalkers were in a good place with a 5+++ but taking it down to a 6+++ is a 50% decrease in survivability, yes I know that they went up to T4 but that doesn't really thrill me. Playing a lot of demons and chaos in general I am tired of how many T4 units have garbage saves, this game has become far to lethal for them to stay on the table more than a turn.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Yeah... Aren't scarab swarms like extremely good (by necrons standards, that by this point need a couple of point cuts, but is not like they have some rule-based problem), poxwalkers have a ton of use in some lists and in small numbers in most lists, and Canoptek Spyders, even if not the best thing ever, have seen play in canoptek heavy lists at least months ago?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 22:52:24


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




 Galas wrote:
Yeah... Aren't scarab swarms like extremely good (by necrons standards, that by this point need a couple of point cuts, but is not like they have some rule-based problem), poxwalkers have a ton of use in some lists and in small numbers in most lists, and Canoptek Spyders, even if not the best thing ever, have seen play in canoptek heavy lists at least months ago?


Scarabs have not been good in a long time. They auto wound on 6's tohit, not exactly amazing. Granted I run canoptek heavy necron list so I am not exactly on the cutting edge of competitive.

Poxwalkers have a use as a cheap mandatory troop choice, which is sadly the most valuable thing in a chaos list because decent troops only belong to Imperium armies (Before someone tries to be the gotcha guy, yes some Xenos as well. My point is chaos troops are bad and have been bad for a long time.)
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Uhh yeah Canoptek Scarabs are one of the best units in the whole codex, ObSec 5++ Scarabs has been a core strategy since the book came out. The Necrons unit that fails the "internal balance" check is the Ophydian Destroyers.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Where on earth are people getting this "internal balance of the 9th codexs" going on? Wanna talk to my hundreds of Pox Walkers? How about my scarabs and spiders? Pretty sure there are still a few awful choices in the codexs that have come out, just because MORE things are useful.

The Ork codex is shaping up to be more of the same, some really good stuff but a lot of stuff that is still not worth taking. I am very disappointed in Deffdreads being unchanged except for their point cost.


Well, you know, and every weapon they can take got buffed, and saws are removed, and it gets +1 base attack, and klawz are now free, and it now has ramshackle.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/21 02:36:02


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




Arachnofiend wrote:Uhh yeah Canoptek Scarabs are one of the best units in the whole codex, ObSec 5++ Scarabs has been a core strategy since the book came out. The Necrons unit that fails the "internal balance" check is the Ophydian Destroyers.


Really? Because most Necrons list that are placing well do NOT take Obsec 5++ scarabs, scarabs do show up in competitive list but more and more this year as 9th progresses they are falling out in favor of wraiths. Scarabs are not good, they are cheap fast moving chaff that can net you secondaries fairly well. Sorry but my standards for what a decent unit is - is more than just existing.

the_scotsman wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Where on earth are people getting this "internal balance of the 9th codexs" going on? Wanna talk to my hundreds of Pox Walkers? How about my scarabs and spiders? Pretty sure there are still a few awful choices in the codexs that have come out, just because MORE things are useful.

The Ork codex is shaping up to be more of the same, some really good stuff but a lot of stuff that is still not worth taking. I am very disappointed in Deffdreads being unchanged except for their point cost.


Well, you know, and every weapon they can take got buffed, and saws are removed, and it gets +1 base attack, and klawz are now free, and it now has ramshackle.


Really? Okay so they got +1 base attack but they weren't exactly hurting in the melee damage department. The best thing that they got was KMB becoming d3 shots, but again this is on a weapons platform that hits on a 5+ and hurts itself on a roll of a 1. With 4 KMB you can expect to get on average, if we round up for the benefit of the doubt, three hits likely wounding on 3's meaning 2 wounds. An optimal target would be something without an invul save and T7 which is a fairly decent amount of targets but on average even at that you are going to average 7 wounds, which in the day and age of Multimelta supremacy is not that impressive.

Deffdreads biggest issue has been that they are incredibly squishy, the game is too lethal for them to be able to even make their attacks matter. Now, perhaps my impression is sorely biased because my primary opponent plays Imperial Fist with a good amount of stalker bolt rifles or Guard, either way they have plenty of firepower to destroy multiple Deffdreads a turn.

EDIT: I just wanted to say that because so many people seem to live and die on the ability to make an argument out of any detail, I actually like a lot of the new codex. The buggies all look to be in great shape, the new Deffkoptas are looking nice, most everything Beastsnagga looks good. There are good things to the codex, I am just bummed that some units that were not great to begin with saw nerfs or little to no change.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 03:11:10


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Can we pause to admire the Dakkajet?

It went from 170 to 120 fully loaded. Guns went from 3 to 6/4. Lost +1 to hit. Gained ramshackle.

Went from 10.5 hits to 12 for 50 fewer points. Degrades a little more gently now, too.

   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





I am hoping something got missed in those screenshots, the biggest issue now is dakka does not seem to allow advance and shoot so a lot of ork units will have guns that would pick off a model or 2 before shooting and now will just be points paid for in the profile to sit on the model unused.


Yeah, I thought the whole point of Dakka Weapons was that it was something in between assault and rapid fire?

Looking through some of the leaked statlines it's either slightly better or slightly worse than just making them rapid fire. Why not just leave them as assault and increase the shots?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 05:35:33


 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Jarms48 wrote:

I am hoping something got missed in those screenshots, the biggest issue now is dakka does not seem to allow advance and shoot so a lot of ork units will have guns that would pick off a model or 2 before shooting and now will just be points paid for in the profile to sit on the model unused.


Yeah, I thought the whole point of Dakka Weapons was that it was something in between assault and rapid fire?

Looking through some of the leaked statlines it's either slightly better or slightly worse than just making them rapid fire. Why not just leave them as assault and increase the shots?


Because orks can't have non conditional decent shooting? Out of pronciple seemingly.
Because there'd be no reason not to just increase shots by 1 for dakka weapons (probably only really shootas and big shootas that need it) and call it a day.

I guess dakka jets are pretty happy now. tough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Can we pause to admire the Dakkajet?

It went from 170 to 120 fully loaded. Guns went from 3 to 6/4. Lost +1 to hit. Gained ramshackle.

Went from 10.5 hits to 12 for 50 fewer points. Degrades a little more gently now, too.


As an avid aviatork i approve. Finnally i have CAS worth something
Albeit its an odd tendency , the increase in shots and lethality, probably nock on effects from stat changes?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/21 06:06:51


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Daedalus81 wrote:
Can we pause to admire the Dakkajet?

It went from 170 to 120 fully loaded. Guns went from 3 to 6/4. Lost +1 to hit. Gained ramshackle.

Went from 10.5 hits to 12 for 50 fewer points. Degrades a little more gently now, too.


Haha, I just wrote the same thing in the other thread. The blitza bommer also drops a mean bomb now. Essentially flying 'eadbut light except you don't have to crash the plane.
There also is a reason to take either bommer, one hits units within 6", the other hits models within 6".

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?




Noctis Labyrinthus

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

Scarabs have not been good in a long time. They auto wound on 6's tohit, not exactly amazing. Granted I run canoptek heavy necron list so I am not exactly on the cutting edge of competitive.

Poxwalkers have a use as a cheap mandatory troop choice, which is sadly the most valuable thing in a chaos list because decent troops only belong to Imperium armies (Before someone tries to be the gotcha guy, yes some Xenos as well. My point is chaos troops are bad and have been bad for a long time.)


I've got good news for you my man: both scarabs and poxwalkers are in fact good actually; of the last five placing Necron lists I could find all but one took scarabs (like two took three maxed out squads). Of the Death Guard lists I found that placed in June literally every list had poxwalkers, and some leaned very heavily on them.

You just appear to bluntly have no idea what is actually competitive at the moment.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Jidmah wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Can we pause to admire the Dakkajet?

It went from 170 to 120 fully loaded. Guns went from 3 to 6/4. Lost +1 to hit. Gained ramshackle.

Went from 10.5 hits to 12 for 50 fewer points. Degrades a little more gently now, too.


Haha, I just wrote the same thing in the other thread. The blitza bommer also drops a mean bomb now. Essentially flying 'eadbut light except you don't have to crash the plane.
There also is a reason to take either bommer, one hits units within 6", the other hits models within 6".


Huh, seems i missed the burna , dakka and blitza bommer sheets, care point me to em?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Big collection of everything leaked, also keeps getting updated regularly with new stuff: https://imgur.com/a/YC4UNqS

Open pictures in new tab if you can't zoom in.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Jidmah wrote:
Big collection of everything leaked, also keeps getting updated regularly with new stuff: https://imgur.com/a/YC4UNqS

Open pictures in new tab if you can't zoom in.


140 pts burnabomba is scary. But the blitza is probably taking the cake against hordy armies....

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:Uhh yeah Canoptek Scarabs are one of the best units in the whole codex, ObSec 5++ Scarabs has been a core strategy since the book came out. The Necrons unit that fails the "internal balance" check is the Ophydian Destroyers.


Really? Because most Necrons list that are placing well do NOT take Obsec 5++ scarabs, scarabs do show up in competitive list but more and more this year as 9th progresses they are falling out in favor of wraiths. Scarabs are not good, they are cheap fast moving chaff that can net you secondaries fairly well. Sorry but my standards for what a decent unit is - is more than just existing.

the_scotsman wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Where on earth are people getting this "internal balance of the 9th codexs" going on? Wanna talk to my hundreds of Pox Walkers? How about my scarabs and spiders? Pretty sure there are still a few awful choices in the codexs that have come out, just because MORE things are useful.

The Ork codex is shaping up to be more of the same, some really good stuff but a lot of stuff that is still not worth taking. I am very disappointed in Deffdreads being unchanged except for their point cost.


Well, you know, and every weapon they can take got buffed, and saws are removed, and it gets +1 base attack, and klawz are now free, and it now has ramshackle.


Really? Okay so they got +1 base attack but they weren't exactly hurting in the melee damage department. The best thing that they got was KMB becoming d3 shots, but again this is on a weapons platform that hits on a 5+ and hurts itself on a roll of a 1. With 4 KMB you can expect to get on average, if we round up for the benefit of the doubt, three hits likely wounding on 3's meaning 2 wounds. An optimal target would be something without an invul save and T7 which is a fairly decent amount of targets but on average even at that you are going to average 7 wounds, which in the day and age of Multimelta supremacy is not that impressive.

Deffdreads biggest issue has been that they are incredibly squishy, the game is too lethal for them to be able to even make their attacks matter. Now, perhaps my impression is sorely biased because my primary opponent plays Imperial Fist with a good amount of stalker bolt rifles or Guard, either way they have plenty of firepower to destroy multiple Deffdreads a turn.


Cool - you'll be happy to know that deff dreads now take 1/2 damage from those Stalker rifles, then.

Does that help a bit with the squishiness factor? Dedicated AT weaponry like lascannons and meltas will still kill them, but the thing that's always frustrated me personally with my orks was how much damage we take from stupid bs weapons with a billion shots and damage d3/damage 2, which makes me a big fan of the new ramshackle rule personally.

Deff dreads got a buff defensively (ramshackle) a buff offensively (+1 base attack and all weapons are now Klaws so it no longer has the 2 crappy attacks from the sawz) and most builds went down in cost (full melee dread down to 85 from 105).

In general, melee DDs seem like a decent pick. Amazing? Eh, they probably won't perform quite as well at higher point values as they might in lower point values, simply because opponents will have the luxury of lots of firepower to throw at them before they get to their target. But put a couple of them in a list alongside a T8 threat like a gorkanaut/morkanaut, bonebreaka, kill rig or hunta rig that's also purely melee and I think most opponents will sling their dedicated antitank weapons at that so the dreads will be able to get in fairly easily.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Scarabs are not good, they are cheap fast moving chaff that can net you secondaries fairly well.


This is literally the issue in a nutshell. You just described a fundamental way of scoring/winning in 9th, and yet prefaced it with saying it's not good.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 IanMalcolmAbs wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Orks win even more than admech are winning now. The new freeboota trait is exceptionally busted.



I would. At the moment the only bright spots I can see are the new Beast Snaggas, and even then its really only the squig riders and the special character. Beyond that Its Planes/warbikes/koptas. Everything else is kind of crap to be honest. And the "New" freeboota" rule is...exactly the same except the range is infinite now instead of 24. And keep in mind, if you keeped a model with a unit near the middle of the table you were basically getting this already.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is utterly idiotic...like 8.5 ironhands idiotic to include this rule. I can assure you within 1 month it will be nerfed too...to only be DA characters...which is fine for a free rule that no other marines get...

Just cant stand these snow flake marines anymore.
 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 bullyboy wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Scarabs are not good, they are cheap fast moving chaff that can net you secondaries fairly well.


This is literally the issue in a nutshell. You just described a fundamental way of scoring/winning in 9th, and yet prefaced it with saying it's not good.


Yeah, I don't know what more do you could want from scarab swarms?

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
 
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