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Made in us
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Is the next step a consent form?

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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Jidmah wrote:The person wanting to play with unpainted models has every right to do so. Just as the person wanting to play against fully painted army has every right to decline the game.

Interestingly, HBMC nitpicked me earlier for saying they insisted on having a "right" to do so. So which is it, do they have that right or not?

I'm very sure that he nitpicked on you because you implied that the person not painting is doing something wrong.

As for your argument, disconnected from his, I actually agree with you, with the single caveat that painting in general is part of the experience of miniatures wargaming - which is all this Code says, at least for my interpretation.

Jidmah wrote:The only people who are wrong are those telling others how to enjoy their hobby, and that includes telling people that they have to prioritize painting over gaming.

You don't have to prioritize painting over gaming if you don't want to. Just make some progress, put in some effort now and again. Playing with painted minis is part of the experience - "spectacle" is a crucial reason why miniatures gaming is attractive over, say, board wargames. So it doesn't have to be a priority, but it shouldn't be outright ignored.

No matter how much you tone this down, this is you telling others how to enjoy their hobby. No one would ever think about telling a person who is just collecting miniatures they like and painting them that they have to put some effort into learning the game. Therefore you are wrong.

Playing with unpainted miniatures works perfectly fine, if and how someone paints their game pieces is 100% up to them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 14:52:48


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kirotheavenger wrote:I do have games arranged ahead of time.
The problem would be turning up and my opponent going "I don't give permission for you to use the unpainted terminator squad" or whatever.




Uh huh, and there was absolutely NO WAY if you communicating this to your prospective opponent when you were communicating with them, was there?

You ask when you're arranging ahead of time. Christ, it's not rocket surgery. And it's bloody good manners to build a rapport with the other guy anyway. Put some exp into community building, not just list building. Your hobby will be more rewarding.

'Listen mate, I've just bought a second squad of reivers to use in my list. Right now they're assembled but not painted. Hope thats not an issue? I've heard horror stories, I don't want to get caught out, especially when it's 6 hours round bus trip for me! Its not worth it otherwise!'

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 15:04:48


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BrianDavion wrote:
it's not "mother mother may I please please use unpainted minis" it's just "ohh hey, if we're gonna play, you don't mind the odd unpainted mini on the table yeah?"
It shouldn't need to be asked in the first place.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
But if it's eight months later and the new Sororitas are still 100% grey with no further effort, that's when I start groaning.
And you continue to ignore the possible reasons for why someone doesn't want to or can't paint. Your immediate implication is that by them not painting, they are doing something wrong.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Still better than not trying at all
'Cause for some of us it's just because we're not trying hard enough, right?

Honestly... its like you people have never fething heard the word 'disability'.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 15:25:56


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 BlackoCatto wrote:
Is the next step a consent form?


No, no, it's reparations. You have to pay your opponent for each unpainted model you used.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

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"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:


Honestly... its like you people have never fething heard the word 'disability'.



Stop it.

Stop standing on the shoulders of people with disabilities and use them as a reason to defend something as stupid and meaningless as painting a model in a game of toy soldiers. Stop it. They are not your token to use a shield, they are not your "best case/worst caser" that you get to trot out when you want to defend a completely fething meaningless position in a game that doesn't matter.

That's not defending anyone, you aren't protecting anyone, and you aren't acting in anyone's best interest. You're desperate to win a damn argument and using people with disabilities as a means to do that. Doing so is beneath contempt.
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
But if it's eight months later and the new Sororitas are still 100% grey with no further effort, that's when I start groaning.
And you continue to ignore the possible reasons for why someone doesn't want to or can't paint. Your immediate implication is that by them not painting, they are doing something wrong.

Honestly... its like you people have never fething heard the word 'disability'.



No, I'm arguing that by not trying to have painted models, they're doing something wrong. If they can't paint for themselves, there's plenty of alternatives out there - commissioning is the big one.

As for ignoring the reasons they don't want to - well, yes, of course I'll ignore those reasons. Because they might not WANT to, but I also don't WANT to play against unpainted minis forever, and since the general experience of miniatures wargaming is for the miniatures to be painted, I'm not the one being unreasonable (despite how you may seek to portray things).

It's like showing up at a theater and talking through the movie. Part of the general experience of others is being able to hear the movie, regardless of what you want/don't want to do. If you have a hypothetical disability that forces you to talk, then accommodations and work arounds exist. You don't get to just walk in, talk, and when someone says "shh" just go "I have a disability."

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 15:42:45


 
   
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If I actually played in stores against random people and had the potential to be caught out by the painted-model police, I'd be sorely tempted to found a new CSM warband called The Grey Horde. They'd be painted in the closest colour I could find to GW Model Sprue grey, lovingly washed and highlighted, with red eyes and black dots in the gun barrels for the obligatory three colours. Bases painted black, with a grey stripe under the feet to look like an old slottabase. There you go, pal. Painted.
   
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Unit, has anyone said you're REQUIRED to play against unpainted minis?

Because, if I remember correctly...

 JNAProductions wrote:
Again-if it said "Make sure you and your opponent are both going to enjoy the game," or something to that effect, that'd be fine. I have zero issues with someone not wanting to game with me because my minis are half-painted at best. If they're in it for the visual spectacle, that's fine-I'm not, but to each their own.

But it doesn't say that.
That's what I've said on the matter. If your enjoyment comes from spectacle and aesthetics, that's totally fine-it's not how I enjoy the game, but that just means we probably shouldn't play one another. But I'd appreciate you not implying I'm worse because I don't enjoy it the same way you do.

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Crispy78 wrote:
If I actually played in stores against random people and had the potential to be caught out by the painted-model police, I'd be sorely tempted to found a new CSM warband called The Grey Horde. They'd be painted in the closest colour I could find to GW Model Sprue grey, lovingly washed and highlighted, with red eyes and black dots in the gun barrels for the obligatory three colours. Bases painted black, with a grey stripe under the feet to look like an old slottabase. There you go, pal. Painted.


That would actually be an excellent army to play against imo, and could look really cool. I have a friend that does an Urban Camo scheme on their Imperial Guard. The infantry have flesh, so not really applicable, but the tanks look basically plastic grey with black treads (just like your bases would).

They're lovingly drybrushed and the lenses are light blue, though. And the tank cannon barrels have some burn scarring. Kinda like the baneblade in my profile pic if you took the weathering off, and left the cannon barrels alone instead of painting them metal. The Baneblades are also a slightly different grey.

They look great because the drybrushing really works. He uses Mechanicus Standard Grey if you're curious as the basecoat.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 15:54:11


 
   
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Crispy78 wrote:
If I actually played in stores against random people and had the potential to be caught out by the painted-model police, I'd be sorely tempted to found a new CSM warband called The Grey Horde. They'd be painted in the closest colour I could find to GW Model Sprue grey, lovingly washed and highlighted, with red eyes and black dots in the gun barrels for the obligatory three colours. Bases painted black, with a grey stripe under the feet to look like an old slottabase. There you go, pal. Painted.


There used to be a team on the East Coast (maybe they're still around?) called "The Grey Tide" or "The Grey Horde". They would just paint every model of every army 3 shades of grey.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 15:57:21


 
   
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kirotheavenger wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

stranger says no. you walk away and don't play them.

I just spent 1.5hrs on the bus getting here, it's another 1.5hrs home. The bus ticket was £4, we've already booked the gaming table so that's another £5 spent, so I've already spent £9 and 3hrs on this game.
Call it sunk cost, but turning around and going home without a game isn't very appealing.
Granted, having a gak game because my opponent leverages a "be nice" rule for dickish purposes isn't much better, but that's why it's a problem.

Why didn't you say something when you were arranging the game? Easy fix
Jidmah wrote:You have clearly never played against someone who pulled out a Spanish version of a white dwarf issue bought on ebay, just because translation of one rule had a typo that would benefit them.


Sounds like an donkey-cave, and if both of you are playing the same game language, you would know that to begin with. If they're using a different language rule than you...you're not playing same game.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
it's not "mother mother may I please please use unpainted minis" it's just "ohh hey, if we're gonna play, you don't mind the odd unpainted mini on the table yeah?"
It shouldn't need to be asked in the first place.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
But if it's eight months later and the new Sororitas are still 100% grey with no further effort, that's when I start groaning.
And you continue to ignore the possible reasons for why someone doesn't want to or can't paint. Your immediate implication is that by them not painting, they are doing something wrong.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Still better than not trying at all
'Cause for some of us it's just because we're not trying hard enough, right?

Honestly... its like you people have never fething heard the word 'disability'.


Just so you know I've been permanently disabled for 22yrs so you can choke on it. I don't get to paint as much/often as I want to due to my disability. But I do paint when able & if you're not able to, dont & anyone saying something isn't worth your time anyway.

Don't play with donkey-caves who care about playing only with a fullly painted army(or whatever else). Easy fix

Once again I don't care if you're fully painted, I will never claim extra vp(cuz we don't play with VP) for paint. I would rather play against a fully painted army, but if my choices are;
A)Fully painted but WAAC
B)Grey but chill person
I'll pick B all day every day!
   
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Deadnight wrote:
kirotheavenger wrote:I do have games arranged ahead of time.
The problem would be turning up and my opponent going "I don't give permission for you to use the unpainted terminator squad" or whatever.




Uh huh, and there was absolutely NO WAY if you communicating this to your prospective opponent when you were communicating with them, was there?

You ask when you're arranging ahead of time. Christ, it's not rocket surgery. And it's bloody good manners to build a rapport with the other guy anyway. Put some exp into community building, not just list building. Your hobby will be more rewarding.

'Listen mate, I've just bought a second squad of reivers to use in my list. Right now they're assembled but not painted. Hope thats not an issue? I've heard horror stories, I don't want to get caught out, especially when it's 6 hours round bus trip for me! Its not worth it otherwise!'


How hard is it for someone to just let you use an unpainted squad without needing to bring it up ? This whole debate is so insane to me, and I know insane pretty well. People act like some unpainted models is similar to showing up in your underwear to play a game and it somehow is going to ruin some ones game to even see bare plastic. I hate to say it but if it really pains someone that much to have to deal with unpainted models I think they might have some issues that no code of conduct will fix.As I have never once had anyone take issue with it from anyone else or even myself. I guess I live in an amazingly charitable section of the earth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
But if it's eight months later and the new Sororitas are still 100% grey with no further effort, that's when I start groaning.
And you continue to ignore the possible reasons for why someone doesn't want to or can't paint. Your immediate implication is that by them not painting, they are doing something wrong.

Honestly... its like you people have never fething heard the word 'disability'.



No, I'm arguing that by not trying to have painted models, they're doing something wrong. If they can't paint for themselves, there's plenty of alternatives out there - commissioning is the big one.

As for ignoring the reasons they don't want to - well, yes, of course I'll ignore those reasons. Because they might not WANT to, but I also don't WANT to play against unpainted minis forever, and since the general experience of miniatures wargaming is for the miniatures to be painted, I'm not the one being unreasonable (despite how you may seek to portray things).

It's like showing up at a theater and talking through the movie. Part of the general experience of others is being able to hear the movie, regardless of what you want/don't want to do. If you have a hypothetical disability that forces you to talk, then accommodations and work arounds exist. You don't get to just walk in, talk, and when someone says "shh" just go "I have a disability."


You must be a whole lot of fun to play against. Having the models all be well painted is and always should be a bonus to the game itself. It helps the experience sure but I've had amazing games against unpainted armies and not every unit will always be painted. Perhaps if you have such an issue with unpainted models you should be the one to forward out there how much you will not tolerate and be sure its well known and then all those heathens with their fields of grey can avoid the circumstance totally. This is really an issue I've never had to deal with after playing this game since the late 90s. I will praise someone putting in the effort and doing the painting but I will not ever deny someone a game based on a painted or not unit or model and if someone did it to me that would be the last time I'd ponder to play that person.


Reality is this game forces burn and churn on new units so hard sometimes that what works now rolls around multiple times a year with either rules changes, points or new models. To expect everyone to be up to date with what they want to use while also feeding the GW pig is more insane now than ever before. They just want to push the buy buy buy and not everyone has the equal time to paint paint paint if they can afford as well to feed the GW pig. Only so much time in a day and within a life, people should enjoy it in their own time and not feel pressured to have " right fun " just because someone has a fit over a bare model, the scandal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 22:45:03


 
   
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TBH I may have worked in the visual impairment field for too long, but it would never even occur to me to deny permission or not agree to defer the paint VPs if the human on the other side of the table mentioned disability. That's just making reasonable adjustments. On the other hand, I'll absolutely play "down" those points or accept not playing with that other human if they don't feel it with my grey-undercoated but based work-in-progress because I have other options and consent is a mutual deal. Winning isn't everything, and I'm likely to learn something out of every game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/24 22:50:45


 
   
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Seabass wrote:
Stop standing on the shoulders of people with disabilities...
I have disabilities. You want to take everything you just said back?

Racerguy180 wrote:
Just so you know I've been permanently disabled for 22yrs so you can choke on it.
What an impressive display of misplaced and unwarranted hostility. You know this isn't a competition, right?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 23:52:21


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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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It didn't seem unwarranted and it inst a competition, you just cannot speak for all those disabled. Same goes for myself or anyone for that matter.

My point is don't play the way GW suggests, if you don't want to/cant/whatever paint, don't let anyone dictate how you hobby. If you play with donkey-caves, expect donkey-cave behaviour.
Easiest way to avoid this is surprisingly don't play with donkey-caves.

If you're that stuck on officialdom that you care about asking permission(or whatever you take it as) don't. if the other person cares, they sure sound like someone you shouldn't play with anyway.
   
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Racerguy180 wrote:
... you just cannot speak for all those disabled.
I never attempted to. My point was simply to show how callous and downright insulting it is for some people to just say "Try harder!", or the implication that not trying is somehow doing the hobby "wrong". Which is what you did.

Then you attacked me.

I'm not the donkey-cave here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 00:07:49


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Seabass wrote:
Stop standing on the shoulders of people with disabilities...
I have disabilities. You want to take everything you just said back?


ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Whether or not you have disabilities is immaterial to the point that you are using disabled people as a fething shield. If your statements were worded in the context of "I" can't/wont/am not able then that would be one thing, but they aren't. Because if they were, then an argument could be made for an exception to be made in your case, but you aren't interested in that, you are interested in winning an argument about something that doesn't matter about a game you hate.

I have severe neuropathy in my arms and legs. I have no feeling in my left hand, leg, and arm, and have aphasia due to a stroke, and I don't tout that around like a shield because I don't want to conform to the standards of the game. No one I know, no one I have interacted with, as a behavioral therapist, a PsyD student, or my 23+ years in developmentally disabled/traumatic injury disabled, terminally ill, hospice or in-home health care as a grief counselor, direct care worker, nurse or any other position I have held would ever want to be treated differently because of their condition. In fact, that is such a widely adopted position that there every piece of training, techniques, and learning are based on the concept that you DO NOT treat people with a disability differently and you hold them to the same standards as you would hold anyone else (until such a point where it cannot happen, after all, there are no such thing as blind pilots, there are reasonable limitations). To do less is actually a violation of the ADA.

Aphasia is an awful neurological condition. I sometimes cannot speak, cannot even form words correctly. Sometimes I cant even feel if I have dice in my hands, or I bump into or step on my model case because I cant feel the sensory input to tell me there is something there. It's embarrassing, it's humiliating, and it's a challenge I deal with daily, and we won't even talk about how difficult it is to defend your post-grad research presentation with this condition, but I would never want to be treated differently.

So no, I am NOT taking that statement back. You are standing on the shoulders of people with disabilities to win an internet argument about a game of toy fething soliders.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 00:20:30


 
   
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H.B.M.C. wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
Still better than not trying at all
'Cause for some of us it's just because we're not trying hard enough, right?

Honestly... its like you people have never fething heard the word 'disability'.



H.B.M.C. wrote:
Racerguy180 wrote:
... you just cannot speak for all those disabled.
I never attempted to. My point was simply to show how callous and downright insulting it is for some people to just say "Try harder!", or the implication that not trying is somehow doing the hobby "wrong". Which is what you did.

Then you attacked me.

I'm not the donkey-cave here.


You implied that I said not trying hard enough, I specifically stated...not try at all.

I've underlined the part where you lead it into hostility.
   
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Racerguy180 wrote:
You implied that I said not trying hard enough, I specifically stated...not try at all.
A distinction without a difference.

Racerguy180 wrote:
I've underlined the part where you lead it into hostility.
That's frustration at being told I'm not trying hard enough at things I either don't enjoy or cannot do.

How dare you, or anyone, tell me that the way I, or anyone, is interfacing with this hobby is wrong, or that I need to "try" more.

D'ya get it yet?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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San Jose, CA

Are you trying at all?

Cuz if you are then good for you if not good for you.

Maybe you shouldn't throw around a slur in response to someone who differs from you.

"You people" has terrible connotations. But you are free to say whatever you want...

And I didn't tell you how to enjoy the hobby, you seem to be confusing me with someone who cares about what GW says in their rules.
   
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I think this all above is why the rule in 40k really only empowers toxicity in the hobby rather than diffuse it, placing blame onto people rather than real encouragement and engagement with the hobby.

The guideline in the AoS one is again more hostile in the way it puts pressure on one side to engage in part of the hobby they may choose not to for many reasons,
If they really did care about the hobby itself, they would use neutral language to try and engage people.
Simply stating that making sure others are understanding of painting expectations would be enough and far more friendly.
   
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See, the problem is that there are a certain set of people that can only function by following a set of rules or guidelines.

Somebody start up a eugenics program so we can game in peace
   
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Seabass wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Seabass wrote:
Stop standing on the shoulders of people with disabilities...
I have disabilities. You want to take everything you just said back?


ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Just put him on ignore, dude. HBMC is the kind of person who this code is directed at but can never follow

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 05:11:49


"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


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 DarknessEternal wrote:
HBMC is the kind of person who this code is directed at but can never follow
Uh huh.

We have people in this thread telling everyone that if they're not painting they're just not trying hard enough, all the way up to Seabass screaming in all caps because he got caught out telling someone with disabilities to eat gak, and yet I'm the bad guy? Give me a break...

Seabass wrote:
So no, I am NOT taking that statement back. You are standing on the shoulders of people with disabilities to win an internet argument about a game of toy fething soliders.
The only one screaming, again, in all caps, about toy soldiers is you.

I'm not standing on anyone's shoulders. I'm not using anyone as a shield. You (and others) continue to belittle anyone who chooses (or maybe can't chose) to interface with this hobby in a manner different to you. You (and others) are clinging onto this utterly asinine idea that everyone must engage in the hobby in the same way, that (like a few others have stated) those who do not do what you do simply aren't trying 'hard enough' (or at all).

Putting a painting requirement in a 'code of conduct' is as stupid as putting in a points score in missions for having a painted army. You are specifically separating out - discriminating against, if you prefer - a sub-set of players who could have all kinds of reasons for not painting. I mean, putting aside disabilities, since that gets you all rankled up, what about if someone just doesn't want to? Doesn't care? Has no interest in painting.

Why is their choice any more or less valid than yours?
Why should they be treated any differently to someone who does care about painting?

If you can answer that with anything better than "Because painting is part of the hobby!", then I'm all ears.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 05:35:19


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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 DarknessEternal wrote:
HBMC is the kind of person who this code is directed at but can never follow
Uh huh.

We have people in this thread telling everyone that if they're not painting they're just not trying hard enough, all the way up to Seabass screaming in all caps because he got caught out telling someone with disabilities to eat gak, and yet I'm the bad guy? Give me a break...


I'd say you're being unreasonable HBMC and letting your own biases intevere in your judgement here.

I mean look let's reduce this entire thing to it's simpliest.
I'm going to ask some questions. These are YES OR NO QUESTIONS. kindly don't weigh in your own judgements here. just answer "yes or no" "true or false etc"

True or false: Some people prefer to play against only painted minis?
True or False: Some people see nothing wrong with using unpainted minis
True or false: given these differant ways of enjoying the hobby discussing the matter before you sit down for a game is proably a sane thing to do?

Look I don't care how you prefer to engage the hobby, nor do you care how I do it, but when we come together we obviously need to discuss preferances and views on that matter yeah?

thats ALL this players code says, ask your opponent if he's cool with your using unpainted models because not everyone is. seriously if you say "I've a disability and can't paint" no one. NO ONE is going to make an issue of it.
And if they do bugger them they're not the kind of people you wanna play games with anyway. You've basicly derailed an entire thread over this. seems a touch silly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 05:52:03


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BrianDavion wrote:
I'd say you're being unreasonable HBMC and letting your own biases intevere in your judgement here.
And I'd say anyone who just says "try harder" when it comes to things that they either can't or don't want to do is being insulting and, as much as I hate this word, quite 'gate keeper'-y.

BrianDavion wrote:
True or false: Some people prefer to play against only painted minis?
Sure.
BrianDavion wrote:
True or False: Some people see nothing wrong with using unpainted minis
Also yes.
BrianDavion wrote:
True or false: given these differant ways of enjoying the hobby discussing the matter before you sit down for a game is proably a sane thing to do?
No. And you said not to elaborate here.

BrianDavion wrote:
Look I don't care how you prefer to engage the hobby, nor do you care how I do it, but when we come together we obviously need to discuss preferances and views on that matter yeah?
Preferences as they relate to the game, sure. What are we playing. What sort of mission. What size of game. What type of force. "You didn't base your minis properly! Game's off!" is not something I'd even consider.

BrianDavion wrote:
ask your opponent if he's cool with your using unpainted models because not everyone is.
Why should anyone ever have to ask such a question?

I'm bothered by people taking model kits from completely different games (usually WWII tanks) and just putting them in Guard armies and calling them a Russ with nothing other than a 40k-ish paint job. I absolutely hate terrain made of junk. Those are my biases. I'm never going to turn around and say "Hey. That German half-track? That ain't a Chimera buddy. Get a real model!", nor would I ever expect the owner of said 'Chimera' to need to ask if he's ok with me using it. If someone's built up a table full of old electronic parts and packaging containers, then I'll shut my damned mouth and live with it. That's how that person chose to build their terrain, and who the hell am I to tell them different? I'd rather just get on with the game.

BrianDavion wrote:
seriously if you say "I've a disability and can't paint" no one. NO ONE is going to make an issue of it.
I think such a statement should never have to be uttered out loud.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/06/25 06:09:07


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I'd say you're being unreasonable HBMC and letting your own biases intevere in your judgement here.
And I'd say anyone who just says "try harder" when it comes to things that they either can't or don't want to do is being insulting and, as much as I hate this word, quite 'gate keeper'-y.

BrianDavion wrote:
True or false: Some people prefer to play against only painted minis?
Sure.
BrianDavion wrote:
True or False: Some people see nothing wrong with using unpainted minis
Also yes.
BrianDavion wrote:
True or false: given these differant ways of enjoying the hobby discussing the matter before you sit down for a game is proably a sane thing to do?
No. And you said not to elaborate here.

BrianDavion wrote:
Look I don't care how you prefer to engage the hobby, nor do you care how I do it, but when we come together we obviously need to discuss preferances and views on that matter yeah?
Preferences as they relate to the game, sure. What are we playing. What sort of mission. What size of game. What type of force. "You didn't base your minis properly! Game's off!" is not something I'd even consider.

BrianDavion wrote:
ask your opponent if he's cool with your using unpainted models because not everyone is.
Why should anyone ever have to ask such a question?

I'm bothered by people taking model kits from completely different games (usually WWII tanks) and just putting them in Guard armies and calling them a Russ with nothing other than a 40k-ish paint job. I absolutely hate terrain made of junk. Those are my biases. I'm never going to turn around and say "Hey. That German half-track? That ain't a Chimera buddy. Get a real model!", nor would I ever expect the owner of said 'Chimera' to need to ask if he's ok with me using it. If someone's built up a table full of old electronic parts and packaging containers, then I'll shut my damned mouth and live with it. That's how that person chose to build their terrain, and who the hell am I to tell them different? I'd rather just get on with the game.

BrianDavion wrote:
seriously if you say "I've a disability and can't paint" no one. NO ONE is going to make an issue of it.
I think such a statement should never have to be uttered out loud.



so In other words, "yes I reckongize people play differantly and want differant things, but I'm not going to attempt a modicium of communication I'm just going to show up and insist they play with me on my terms?" because thats what it sounds like. Look personally I think insisting on only playing painted mini's is silly (that said I appreciate when someone attempts an effort simply because I appreciate painting minis ain't easy) but I'm going to make sure the people I sit down with also don't have an issue if I'm gonna be bringing unpainted mini's. I mean it's common sense to communicate these things.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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If you discuss point level(not everyone plays same amount), you can discuss this.
If you discuss mission(not everyone plays the same missions), you can discuss this.
If you discuss anything, literally anything before the game with the person you're playing with, surprisingly you can discuss this.

How is this any different?

Say I want to play 1500pts & you want to play 1750, either A) we make accommodations to play at 1500pts or B) we make accommodations to play at 1750.
How is this any different?

Say I want to play with no strats & you do, same as above.

Say you want to play with proxies & I don't, same as above.

How is this any different?

Stop caring about what GW says and do your own thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 06:23:59


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

BrianDavion wrote:
so In other words, "yes I reckongize people play differantly and want differant things, but I'm not going to attempt a modicium of communication I'm just going to show up and insist they play with me on my terms?" because thats what it sounds like.
Only if you read it through the reflection of a fun-house mirror. To put it another way, your assessment is about as backwards/reductive as one can get.

I see it the other way around: I'm not going to insist on any terms (outside of what impacts the game itself - mission, forces, set-up, etc.). It's the same reason why I hate the 10 points for painted armies. That's not part of the actual game itself (hobby yes, game no - let's be very clear on that distinction), and thus I don't see it should affect the outcome of the game.

BrianDavion wrote:
Look personally I think insisting on only playing painted mini's is silly (that said I appreciate when someone attempts an effort simply because I appreciate painting minis ain't easy) but I'm going to make sure the people I sit down with also don't have an issue if I'm gonna be bringing unpainted mini's. I mean it's common sense to communicate these things.
Maybe it's because I've literally never come across someone who's said "You have to have painted minis or I is walkin' out that door!". Maybe I've just been lucky to have never encountered someone like that in real life.

Thank Christ.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 06:26:39


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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