Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This entire thread makes me wish I focused more on my Scions, Custodes, and Drukhari instead of buying more Primaris...

Save your money.

Ok I think I’ve refined the list to something I’m happy with. Let me know what you think:

Battalion (3CPs)
Captain with Fist of Vengeance and Plasma Pistol 106
Lieutenant with Power Sword 74
8 Intercessors with grenade launcher and Sword 149
5 Intercessors with grenade launcher 91
5 Scouts with shotguns 55
3 Inceptors with bolters 135
5 Rapid Fire Hellblasters 165
5 Rapid Fire Hellblasters 165
Repulsor with las talon, twin las, 2 krak launchers, 2 frag launchers, mini-gatling, ironhail stubber, 2 storm bolters and icarus launcher 348
Repulsor with las talon, twin las, 2 krak launchers, 2 frag launchers, mini-gatling, ironhail stubber, 2 storm bolters and icarus launcher 348
Fire Raptor with lascannons 362

This comes to 1998 points. I’ve dropped the Aggressors, who I found to be unreliable. They tend to get off one round of shooting, then end up locked in combat, which isn’t where they want to be. Instead I’ll stuff the repulsor full of intercessors, who I can chuck happily into midfield, and my 2 characters. 10 hellblasters go into the other one. That leaves me with 6 drops, which isn’t too many I think.

The inceptors are a new-ish addition. I’ve used them before with kind of mixed results, but the army needs a unit able to go and get objectives. I thought about whether to use them or reivers, but I think I prefer having the firepower from those assault bolters.

It does leave me a bit light on close combat options. The captain is still badass, but this is very much a shooting army. That’s fine though, as I think I’ve got quite a lot of shooting here.

I thought long and hard about the deredeo. I think it’s a good unit, but not a perfect fit for my list. A ravenguard one with the 5++ bubble would be really great. It basically wants to be in a more infantry-based army than mine. I don’t really have the spare guys to shield it. If it gets stuck in melee it’s useless from then on.

One thing that’s impressed me lately is the performance of my ordinary Primaris guys in combat. They actually throw out quite a lot of wounds, especially when backed up by my captain and lieutenant. A lot of ork boyz and plaguebearers got themselves clubbed to death with bolt rifles and plasma incinerators at the weekend.

I don’t know if I should give my lieutenant a sword or a gun. I think the answer may very well be that it doesn’t matter very much either way - neither does all that much.

Also, I’ve got to remember about pistols!

I like the list. You got two spare points to take a grenade launcher for each Intercessor squad.

 Primark G wrote:
I like the list. You got two spare points to take a grenade launcher for each Intercessor squad.

Already included actually. I've edited the post to include the equipment that stuff is carrying.

Really annoying to have points spare, though 2 isn't too bad. I should get over it!

If we are talking optimized regardless of real life $ cost or models currently owned, I think gulliman+3x fire raptors provides more dakka than your hell blasters + 2x repulsors. (not sure if it's a good idea until the FAQ comes out but whatever)

You get more CP with him as your warlord. Better combat/buffs than your captian + lt for only + 180ish points. Allows you to run tiggy + techmarine as your HQs which give better utility than the captian+lt you are running.

I've found 3x scouts + 1x cessors gives me enough backfield camping + deepstrike denial + midfield objective camping. Add an aux of a culexus for anti-psycher/deepstrike objective camping (that 6+ is really hard to shift for the cost) if you have the points for it.

If you can run the fire-raptor list (beg, borrow, steal or proxy) the FRs and see how it works on the table but I think the math works out in the FR + gulli's favor.

Can always give the lt a storm bolter

Maybe dump the repulsors for more marines? Repulsors are REALLY bad.

jcd386 wrote:
Can always give the lt a storm bolter

He is running a Primaris Lieutenant. They either have sword or the rifle.

I quite like the Repulsor, especially when you are running Primaris only. A little bit pricey but not too bad.
But for my Bobby G Primaris list i ordered a Fire Raptor instead of a second Repulsor. It is obviously better.

No, it's more than a "bit" pricey. It's 100 pts overcosted or more. The 3+ armor is way too leaky. It's twice as fragile as a Leman Russ on a per point basis. NUTS!

jcd386 wrote:
Can always give the lt a storm bolter

You might as well spring for the MC Rifle and replace with The Primarchs Wrath.

Crimson is running Smurfs so he can use Tiggy to make his grav tank T9 and -1 to hit which are both really good buffs.

I've just ordered two more boxes of aggressors as I like them so much! I can't imagine playing Primaris without them anymore. I do play RG tactics though, and they are amazing with sfts. I'll be running a 6-man squad with the stratagem; getting first turn puts out around 114 bolter shots on turn 1, eg killing 25 Tzaangor... Then a 3-man in the repulsor for counter assault, punchy goodness, horde thinning, and the like. It might be a bit too much, but I find that for their points, Aggressors are a steal.

After reading all of this I decided to shelve my other armies, bought more Primaris and traded for a bunch of Grey Knight stuff........bring the pain I say. :-)

Heck yeah!!!

I'm having a heck of a time making my space marines win games... I think I've only won once in 8th edition so far, out of maybe 10-12 games? It just seems like I can't pump out enough firepower, or the enemy deletes my units with so much high ap stuff that I never get an armor save. Enemies having lots of invul saves and FNP type shenanigans also makes it difficult for me to pump out enough shots.

At my disposal I have...

Dark Imperium set (Inceptors, Hellblasters, Intercessors, Ancient, Captain, Lieutenants), along with other Primaris stuff, like a Redemptor Dreadnought, Apothecary, Librarian, Chaplain, and the P. Fist Captain
Several dreadnoughts, including 2 Ironclads, 1 Venerable, 1 regular
Tons of Tactical Marines with all sorts of weapons, plasma, melta, grav, as wel as Missile Launcher Devestators and Sniper Scouts
3 Rhinos, 1 Land Raider Redeemer, 1 Stormtalon, 1 Drop Pod
And several other character models. Chaplains, captains, barebone lieutenants, apothecary, champion, and ancient
And finally a Terminator Assault Squad with Lightning Claws and a veteran assault squad with a mix of weapons and shields. As well as Tyberos the Red Wake.

I've tried lots of combinations, using lots of librarians or lots of dreadnoughts with techmarine support. I've tried going heavy into Primaris, or alternatively spamming MSU tacticals with rhinos. I've tried the Terminators, the vanguard vets, all sorts of things, but it just never feels like enough... I've been tabled half of the times I've played, usually by turn 3 or 4...

Tips? Things to add to the army? Things I should never ever use? Things I should change up? Allies to fill in the gaps? Anything would be appreciated.

What chapter tactics are you running?

Mandragola wrote:
Not all dreads are bad. Deredeos, contemptors and venerable dreads all have their uses.

Sons of Guilliman is really good on plasma inceptors.

SftS is of course amazing.

There are some weak stratagems too. I wish bolter drill did more, but it really doesn't. It's only meaningful effect is to make firing my aggressors take even longer to resolve.

Plasmaceptors aren't good enough to elevate the strategum

This is true of almost every facet of the space marine army.

When looking to competition, there's nothing good enough, not even guilliman, to elevate the list, and there are a lot of trap units.

If you are playing in a competitive meta, you are going to suffer because space marines are not a competitive army. If you aren't, then you still have to list build with an eye towards razor efficiency because the marine options are simply weak by and large.

 Porphyrius wrote:
What chapter tactics are you running?

They're painted as Carcharodons, but I play whatever chapter tactic I think would help the most depending on the list. I played a dreadnought heavy list the other day and went Iron Hands. It was less effective than I'd hoped, but did save a few wounds here and there. I'll usually play Raven Guard for the defensive bonus, or Salamanders for the extra re-rolls and such.

Just remember that Carcharodons are basically confirmed Raven Guard.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Just remember that Carcharodons are basically confirmed Raven Guard.

maybe but they diverged so notably from their progenitor legion I don't think I'd insist on them using RG tactics. realisticly they proably deserve their own chapter tactics.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Just remember that Carcharodons are basically confirmed Raven Guard.

I don't do tournaments, I just want to have a list that doesn't auto-lose against my local group. I play against a lot of death guard, dark eldar, necron, daemons, space wolves, and admech. Lots of tough things with lots of invul saves or other survival shenanigans that makes my limited firepower feel really ineffectual sometimes.

But yeah, you could make a fluff argument for many mystery chapters having any chapter tactic. I didn't paint my marines Imperial Fists or Salamanders specifically for that reason :p

Drbored, well, some heavy hitters are needed, I'd say, in that army list. A Fire Raptor would shake things up a bit, and be your best bet! A deredeo is a nice weapons platform, especially if you face a lot of xenos, and it can be equipped with a 5++ bubble kit. A leviathan is expensive, but if you can put might of heroes on it, it's sitting on -1 hit, T9, 4++. Have you tried a jumpcap and using your inceptors as plasma? I kind of prefer them to hellblasters a little now. A few dev squads would be handy. Or you could go fro triple pred killshot, but the problem there is it's hard to get the lower drop count in that list, and if you go second you'll never get to shoot with 3 preds. I'm no expert by the way, these are just my ramblings. But you do need more guns imo.

Solid List?


+++ Shrike (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [122 PL, 2000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Captain: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Lieutenants
. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Jump Pack, 2x Lightning Claw

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad: Armorium Cherub
. 2x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

Hellblaster Squad: Plasma incinerator
. 5x Hellblaster
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

Hellblaster Squad: Plasma incinerator
. 5x Hellblaster
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Kayvaan Shrike: Warlord

Librarian: 2) Might of Heroes, 6) Null Zone, Force axe, Jump Pack, The Armour Indomitus

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Primaris Captain: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle, Power sword

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Aggressor Squad: 2x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant, Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Primaris Ancient: Standard of the Emperor Ascendant

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 grouchoben wrote:
Drbored, well, some heavy hitters are needed, I'd say, in that army list. A Fire Raptor would shake things up a bit, and be your best bet! A deredeo is a nice weapons platform, especially if you face a lot of xenos, and it can be equipped with a 5++ bubble kit. A leviathan is expensive, but if you can put might of heroes on it, it's sitting on -1 hit, T9, 4++. Have you tried a jumpcap and using your inceptors as plasma? I kind of prefer them to hellblasters a little now. A few dev squads would be handy. Or you could go fro triple pred killshot, but the problem there is it's hard to get the lower drop count in that list, and if you go second you'll never get to shoot with 3 preds. I'm no expert by the way, these are just my ramblings. But you do need more guns imo.

Thanks for the tips! It definitely feels like my army lacks any real punch, and whenever I try to bring it (like in the form of the Redemptor or Land Raider) it's too expensive or only gets one round of real shooting in before being rendered ineffective.

I think I might try to run the Inceptors with plasma and see if that nets me any progress. I can proxy that easily for a few games. Otherwise, I might look seriously at some forgeworld options. the Leviathan is sexy, as is the Fire Raptor, but I worry about my opponents letting me use it. :/

Redemptors are okay as a counter assault unir but they're not agood gun unit. Landraiders aren't great right now I'm afraid... each plasceptor unit you drop with a jumpcap should slag a predator, they're punchy units! Id consider buying a fireraptor or leviarhan with twin stormcannon array. Contemptor mortis with quad lascannon are great anti- heavy units too, and tougher than preds. Good luck!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Where i play it would be crazy to try amd srop your opponent using FW, but if thats the case in your area then you have a bit of a problem! All SM's best heavy stuff is FW... you might have to plump for 3 preds...

drbored wrote:
I'm having a heck of a time making my space marines win games... I think I've only won once in 8th edition so far, out of maybe 10-12 games? It just seems like I can't pump out enough firepower, or the enemy deletes my units with so much high ap stuff that I never get an armor save. Enemies having lots of invul saves and FNP type shenanigans also makes it difficult for me to pump out enough shots.

At my disposal I have...

Dark Imperium set (Inceptors, Hellblasters, Intercessors, Ancient, Captain, Lieutenants), along with other Primaris stuff, like a Redemptor Dreadnought, Apothecary, Librarian, Chaplain, and the P. Fist Captain
Several dreadnoughts, including 2 Ironclads, 1 Venerable, 1 regular
Tons of Tactical Marines with all sorts of weapons, plasma, melta, grav, as wel as Missile Launcher Devestators and Sniper Scouts
3 Rhinos, 1 Land Raider Redeemer, 1 Stormtalon, 1 Drop Pod
And several other character models. Chaplains, captains, barebone lieutenants, apothecary, champion, and ancient
And finally a Terminator Assault Squad with Lightning Claws and a veteran assault squad with a mix of weapons and shields. As well as Tyberos the Red Wake.

I've tried lots of combinations, using lots of librarians or lots of dreadnoughts with techmarine support. I've tried going heavy into Primaris, or alternatively spamming MSU tacticals with rhinos. I've tried the Terminators, the vanguard vets, all sorts of things, but it just never feels like enough... I've been tabled half of the times I've played, usually by turn 3 or 4...

Tips? Things to add to the army? Things I should never ever use? Things I should change up? Allies to fill in the gaps? Anything would be appreciated.

You do need heavy hitters, as others have said. You're missing big guns. My tournament list has 12 lascannons to deal with big scary things, and you don't seem to have any.

Allies are an option. Some IG or admech can bring things like russes and dunecrawlers. But there are also tons of ways to include big guns in a marine list too.

Predators are one way to go. They are fairly efficient. People tend to look at killshot and think you need to run 3 predators if you've got any, but that's not really the case. I'm not a huge fan of predators because they aren't all that tough for their cost, and can be locked down quite well.

Mortis contemptor (with las) and deredeo dreadnoughts are good options from FW. These benefit from CTs, and many of the options are good for them. They also fit well in a Carcharadons list, as they are supposed to bring old skool gear.

A squad or two of devastators with lascannons would be another interesting option. Ravenguard CT would be best for these, and would also be a good fit for your chapter.

You do also have the option of getting some big stuff, like fire raptors and repulsors. That's what I'm doing, but it might not be perfect for you. It would mean a very different approach for your army, and maybe putting aside quite a bit of your existing stuff. I like the units myself.

Planes can have big guns on them. Stormtalons and Xiphons are both decent options. They are hard to hit and reasonably tough - and of course they can't be locked down in cc.

And finally you can just scatter lascannons throughout your tactical squads. This can work surprisingly well, as each gun is difficult to get rid of. Personally I go wtih intercessors and scouts for troops, and use them to screen my more valuable stuff.

drbored wrote:
I'm having a heck of a time making my space marines win games... I think I've only won once in 8th edition so far, out of maybe 10-12 games? It just seems like I can't pump out enough firepower, or the enemy deletes my units with so much high ap stuff that I never get an armor save. Enemies having lots of invul saves and FNP type shenanigans also makes it difficult for me to pump out enough shots.

At my disposal I have...

Dark Imperium set (Inceptors, Hellblasters, Intercessors, Ancient, Captain, Lieutenants), along with other Primaris stuff, like a Redemptor Dreadnought, Apothecary, Librarian, Chaplain, and the P. Fist Captain
Several dreadnoughts, including 2 Ironclads, 1 Venerable, 1 regular
Tons of Tactical Marines with all sorts of weapons, plasma, melta, grav, as wel as Missile Launcher Devestators and Sniper Scouts
3 Rhinos, 1 Land Raider Redeemer, 1 Stormtalon, 1 Drop Pod
And several other character models. Chaplains, captains, barebone lieutenants, apothecary, champion, and ancient
And finally a Terminator Assault Squad with Lightning Claws and a veteran assault squad with a mix of weapons and shields. As well as Tyberos the Red Wake.

I've tried lots of combinations, using lots of librarians or lots of dreadnoughts with techmarine support. I've tried going heavy into Primaris, or alternatively spamming MSU tacticals with rhinos. I've tried the Terminators, the vanguard vets, all sorts of things, but it just never feels like enough... I've been tabled half of the times I've played, usually by turn 3 or 4...

Tips? Things to add to the army? Things I should never ever use? Things I should change up? Allies to fill in the gaps? Anything would be appreciated.

If your enemies have lots of invuln, you do NOT want lascannon spam. You want autocannons/plasma. Weapons with lots of shots that each do 2 damage.

Marines are in a bit of a bind as our options are not *efficient* in any phase of the game. They can do it all in theory, but aren't good at any of it *for the cost*. Allies, particuarly the IG, might be a good idea in general.

Also, if you are RG, consider assault centurions to crank up the pressure to 11.

 Kelligula wrote:
This entire thread makes me wish I focused more on my Scions, Custodes, and Drukhari instead of buying more Primaris...

Primaris are rumored to get lots of love in the Deathwatch codex, so you shouldn't abandon ship yet!


Also I'm at random going to just drop the list I've been using. I've made small changes to it over the course of a few games but so far the only time it failed me was my first ITC rules game and I played it poorly.

Hey again guys and gals, been a while since I've posted!

Just out of curiosity, has anyone else found any uses for drop pods beyond transporting a unit? I keep coming back trying to find a use for my drop pod. It was given second hand as the previous owner sold me a bunch of his marines (needed the money for Orks) that I'm trying to figure out what to do with.

So I'm thinking I would try the following in my gaming group:

1 Drop (or more) with storm bolter
3 random characters with jump packs with some power weapons of some kind
Scouts to bubble wrap
Fill rest of list with stuff I can use (Primaris of each kind, Preds, etc)

Plan: I figured I would deploy everything except pod(s) and characters. On my turn (providing my JP characters come in from reserve) I would launch the empty pod down and the characters with it. See if the pod (or pods?) can save the characters from being targeted for a turn, next turn jump them away to pummel some units in CC that were softened up by my scouts, preds, razorbacks, devs etc. JP characters would be armed to deal with mostly small units or damaged vehicles.

Could add a Calexus for some smite defense or a Libarian to give MoH on the pod (hey, its one attack at S7 with T7) for a puzzled look on your opponent of a fighting drop pod after they charge it .

I know it sounds kinda weird even for casual play, figured I'd throw it out there for some feedback. See if ya guys come up with anything else that could make it (hilariously) better lol.