Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So I am trying to figure out what my next army will be once I finish my Eldar. I want to play an army that is different but still competitive. This is the Cron list I am considering, has anyone else tried it out? It looks solid on paper but some real life experience would be appreciated. Plus, this would be easy as hell to paint up, which is nice considering my Eldar are so not fast to paint.

HQ:
Deceiver

Troops:
Warriors x10
Warriors x10

Fast:
Destroyers x5
Destroyers x5
Destroyers x5

Heavy:
Heavy Destroyers x3
Heavy Destroyers x3
Heavy Destroyers x3

1995 points.

So, any insight would be helpful, thanks.

Is that really 2000 points? It seems so....small.

45 Models, aswell, you have 0 monoliths.

Your warriors will just get shot up to oblivion on turn one and two, and then you've already lost in an objective game, a monolith could help with this.

The warriors start in reserve, as you pointed out, they are two fragile to expose on turn one against most opponents. You hold them back then grab objectives late game when other threats have been neutralized.

I am not the hugest fan of monoliths, although they are great. I think to get the most out of them you need 2, which I obviously don't have room for in this list.

The army is small which is nice for painting reasons, but it is also super fast, resilient and puts out a lot of fire power at range. It is an army of maneuver, you bring your fast units where they can use their firepower against a smaller chunk of your opponents army. With speed and range, you should be able to disable your opponent one piece at a time. Combine this with the deceiver's ability to alter your deployment and you have a very slippery army.

The deceiver is also there to engage and hold up or destroy enemy heavy hitting assault units. With his ability to leave combat you can set up your opponent to get hosed by the destroyers. Plus he is a beast in combat.

Still, you're counting on 24 Destroyers having enough punch to take out the bulk of another 2000pt list wihtout getting smoked in return. I don't think you have enough models to win that kind of exchange. I don't think you have enough dice from Destroyers to really challenge big hordes and the 9 HDs are decent, but not overwhelming at anti-tank.

What are your plans for playing strong alphastrike lists? For all that Destroyers are tough, there are a lot of high fire power builds that could much a big chunk of this list on one round of fire? Redeploy from the deciever will help a little, but that's just some help, not an answer. I'm not even saying, really, that the list can't handle it, just that I'm not sure how you'd manage it.

The issue of only having a pair of relatively weak scoring units is whole seperate issue of course.

I agree with what you are saying, and can only defend this list from a theoretical basis as I have not played it, but on paper, and in theory hammer, this list actually plays out pretty well against all but certain armies. As you said a strong alpha strike army with lots of strength 10 will be tough to overcome, but only IG can really do that.

Against guard, if you go first, none of those tanks are going to be firing as they will all be at least stunned. If you are really worried, put everything in reserve and then come on shooting as your are fast enough to do so.

I believe most opponents would focus on the Deceiver first, as if not he is in their lines turn 3 and wreaking havoc.

It is a small army though, correct, and lacks a lot of scoring power, but I think it is a fairly unique list, and helps to overcome a lot of what makes Crons the arguably worst army in the game right now. I think a smart player can do well with this list, but again, I can't say for certain as I have not played it.

I appreciate your input though, it helps to look at a list from a different point of view.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trying this out. I play Necrons myself (or did anyway, not so much in 5th). I'd love for this to work out - I just have some reservations about whether it actually will. I'd probably proxy the whole shebang and play a handful of test matches against some solid opponents.

The alphstrike commenst weren't entirely aimed at S10 either. Bulk of any kind of fire will whittle you down, and any squads off by themselves will almost assuredly be unable to make use of WBB. So in order to make this work you need to keep the Destroyers of like type together for the most part and that limits your tactical flexibility.

i would take lords on destroyer bodies with warsycths(spelling?) and various other stuff instead of the deseiver as you have t6 combat who can hunt tanks wether as the C'tan will just get shot early with his lackl of turbo boost (4++ does nothing when you take everything in a 2k list)

I don't think you can start Warriors in reserve until you have atleast 3 Troops of them. Look at the warrior section in the Codex it says something along the lines of warriors can be put in reserve after the min (2 for a standard 1hq 2troop) and must be brought up through a monolith

@Skohm
Wow, all these years I never noticed that. However, and this is splitting hairs, it does not say that the two required units can not be held in reserve, it only states that any two over the required may be held in reserves and then come out of the monolith.

@Orkyboss30000
Yeah, that is very true, a lord with destroyer body, orb and scythe would be a good choice as he rocks tanks and is fast. However, he lacks the punch of the deceiver. I think it would be worth while to try both.

@fenris
Again, i agree with what you are saying, but I think that with the speed and range of destroyers the Cron player should be getting the alpha strike in almost all cases. Perhaps I am wrong in that. I would like to play test it with proxies to see how it works out.

Your Army is essentially 45 assault cannon shots with 12 more inches in range, and 9 las cannon shots with no twin linked and 12 inches less in rage. The army has mobility but must play very reactively, because losing very few units can cost you the game. Not having a monolith is going to really be your bane, a smart player can find a way to down whatever part of your army is the biggest threat to him and then just exploit your weaknesses, like the fact you don't have an orb. This means plasma, las and melta are going to have a field day, also means that all someone has to do is drop a 65 point marbo next to your destroyers and you lose a large portion of your army.

I like the idea and I think you should try it. The mono is nice for blocking LOS. If you play a lot of games with LOS blocking terrain, then I think your list can do fine. A lot of area terrain and any amount of ranged AP1 + 2 stuff will cut right through your army.

In the Necron FAQ you are allowed to start any amount of troops in reserve, you must choose before the game wheather they come through a mono portal or walk on the board edge.

If I were fighting you I would try t kill all H destroyers first so they cant WBB. THis is easier said than done. I think you are right aginst certain armies this would be a pain in the ass. I have tried lists with maxed out destroyers or Hdestroyers but not the two together, there is one problem I run into. As th units die, they start being absorbed into other squads. This leaves you with these sort of super units. 10 Destroyers say or 5 H destroyers. Now these units are cool and put out a ton of firepower dont get me wrong, but they have a large footprint so are easily charged, they have a hard time dodging terrain, so any danger roll of a 1 kills a model with no WBB, and you can only target 1 unit per turn. So if you are playing deamons with two winged beasts, you can only shoot one. Or, I have had this happen, if the unit is tank shocked and breaks, it is escorted off of the board. Just some things to consider. I think the list is fine though.

I think you almost have to drop the deceiver. In his place I would add Destroyer lord w/res orb and solar pulse. Solar pulse is critical as it takes away one full shooting phase from your opponent and you need the res orb to keep your destroyers fighting. Use the 100 or so points left over to add some flayed ones for added necron count and some throw away CC. Its all or nothing with a shooting army. Anything that takes away from shooting should be left out.

Something to think about. If you go second, start your whole army in reserve and deploy solar pulse on turn three you can deny you opponent three full shooting phases.

Yawn.... Destroyer spam. How original. Hope you don't pull any objective based missions or you'll lose.

I wouldnt recommend putting this army in reserve as you may only unlock one "type" of each unit making it easy to negate the WBB and taking your army apart without you having much say in it.

Thanks for the constructive input NecronLord3, that was oh so insightful. I wait with baited breathe for your next pearl of wisdom.

Instead of being a d-bag, why don't you add some useful information? If you play Crons, which it appears you do, it would be nice to hear some actual experiences instead of pointless flaming.

The solar pulse is a good idea, I didn't think of that, Razorlead.

And kreedos, how is plasma and melta a problem? I out range them and am faster. Unless they pod in, they will never get in range. Las is tougher, but with tough 5 the destroyers still get WBB. And yes marbo is a problem, but how often do you see him or units like him? Not often. Only IG can field him and I am the only IG player in my area that uses Marbo regularly. I am more worried about podding sternguard, termicide, str 10 orndance, and fast assualt units than something like Marbo. The demo charge wouldn't deny WBB anyway.

I agree, Norbu, the army isn't all powerful, I was looking at it because I think it would be fun to play as it is so fast and shoots like the dickens, but it would most likely be a reactive force. Reactive forces can be very good though.

Well, I will proxy it and see how it plays out. Perhaps it is a steaming pile of a list! Haha, only experience will determine that.

Again, I appreciate the input, well most of it!

Destroyers suck, take more warriors, don't leave home without Monoltihs and Scarabs. For more ensight read some of my stratgic post replies. Your army build is a spam list. That is a valid tactic but hardly one that needs strategic comments recommendations or critiques. You've built a low model count Biker army with a C'Tan Spear head. Enough said. You'll either win barely or lose quickly but you will not claim objectives, ever.

See, at least that was constructive.

I do not play Crons, nor have I ever seen this list played or played against it. For me, it was purely theoretical and I was hoping for some input form those who have played. I don't think it was a foolish question or one that warranted an arrogant, brush off. You could have been more constructive in your critique, but hey, this is the internet where everyone can be as mean as they want to.

Lascannons do not allow WBB as they are AP2.

I think Orkyboss30000 had a good point about the deceiver. @2k points, I think I can blow him away in a single shooting phase. He is not actually THAT tough with a bit of focus fire, the 2 destroyer lords might be more thematic here.

Not a Cron player myself, just 2c.

honestly i think your list looks great..

the deciever is the only thing that sticks out.

he's really just there to defend the footslogging warriors right?

try lords with res orbs, and destroyer bodies, throw in some scarabs if you can i dont have the codex around








heres the list ive seen stelek use to good effect it seems a little similar to yours, but he throws in immortals, and the spiders acts as essentially weaker res orb lords

2000 Pts - Necrons Roster - Necrons 5th Edition

1 Lord @ 170 Pts
WarScythe; Resurrection Orb; Solar Pulse
1 Resurrection Orb @ [40] Pts
1 Solar Pulse @ [20] Pts

6 Immortals @ 168 Pts
Gauss Blaster

6 Immortals @ 168 Pts
Gauss Blaster

10 Warriors @ 180 Pts
Gauss Flayer

10 Warriors @ 180 Pts
Gauss Flayer

5 Destroyers @ 250 Pts
Gauss Cannon

5 Destroyers @ 250 Pts
Gauss Cannon

8 Scarab Swarms @ 128 Pts
Disruption Field

3 Heavy Destroyers @ 195 Pts
Heavy Gauss Cannon

3 Heavy Destroyers @ 195 Pts
Heavy Gauss Cannon

1 Tomb Spyder @ 110 Pts
Particle Projector
1 Tomb Spyder @ [55] Pts

Total Roster Cost: 1994

Dracos wrote:Lascannons do not allow WBB as they are AP2.

I think Orkyboss30000 had a good point about the deceiver. @2k points, I think I can blow him away in a single shooting phase. He is not actually THAT tough with a bit of focus fire, the 2 destroyer lords might be more thematic here.

Not a Cron player myself, just 2c.

bs! You cannot kill the Deceiver in a single round. You would be lucky to take him down in 3 rounds, and even then after concentrating that much fire power on a single model the rest of the army would have you out flanked and flayed to pieces. Good luck though I would love to let you try and kill my C'Tan sometime. That is why they are there.

You need more warriors... and monoliths. Honestly, at 2000 pts, 2 monoliths is almost a must (at least 1). And you need to raise the phase out. 1 lith, 3 heavy destroyers, 6 normal destroyers, 10 scarabs, and the rest of your points on warriors + a lord would work way better for ya.

I think some people are mistaken about the purpose of posting the list. I'm pretty sure Reecius could write and play a more standard Necron list were that his intent, and I'm not sure that suggesting he change everything is all that useful. Just sayin'.

Reecius-

I think that in order to do well, this list will have to avoid getting mauled first turn and concenrate its fire. Hanging back isn't going to cut it in a lto of games IMO. I think you're going to need to press in on a flank and try to distort the axis of engagement. That's probably the only way to limit incoming fire enough to keep your guys on the table. (unless you're playing an all assault horde army of course) Having the Deciever there to redeploy units is key to that part of the game, so swapping him out for a 200pt Destroyer Lord and some assorted goodies probably won't make the list any better.

If the HD can pop the transports closest to your target flank, plus shake some armour, then your overall plan should be acheivable.

I'm not saying you'll do that every game obviously, but I do think you're going to need that redeploy in a big way. It's pretty much the only thing you've got, other than deploying in reserves, to limit alphastrike.

Had you given any thought to how you'd use this against things like Pods and Daemons? Those aren't your worst matchups IMO, but they do need a different approach. Same with super fast mech armies like Eldar, which might be one of your worst matchups. After something like Boyz spam, which I simply don't think you can deal with (as is the case with a lot of lists)

Dracos wrote:Lascannons do not allow WBB as they are AP2.

I think Orkyboss30000 had a good point about the deceiver. @2k points, I think I can blow him away in a single shooting phase. He is not actually THAT tough with a bit of focus fire, the 2 destroyer lords might be more thematic here.

Not a Cron player myself, just 2c.

WBB is only stopped by double strength attacks (S 10 in this case) or by close-combat attacks that ignore armor saves.

Why does everyone think WBB = FNP???

Reecius wrote:So I am trying to figure out what my next army will be once I finish my Eldar. I want to play an army that is different but still competitive. This is the Cron list I am considering, has anyone else tried it out? It looks solid on paper but some real life experience would be appreciated. Plus, this would be easy as hell to paint up, which is nice considering my Eldar are so not fast to paint.

HQ:
Deceiver

Troops:
Warriors x10
Warriors x10

Fast:
Destroyers x5
Destroyers x5
Destroyers x5

Heavy:
Heavy Destroyers x3
Heavy Destroyers x3
Heavy Destroyers x3

1995 points.

So, any insight would be helpful, thanks.

Ok its a good start but a few things need to be ironed out.

The deceiver, or even the nightbringer are just point swallowers. They belong in combat, but are slow, and cannot get cover so well (they're monstrous creatures and need 50% cover to claim a cover save) and nor is there save that brilliant.

Your too low on troops. In objective games which are 2/3's of the missions you will lose.

Destroyers are a very good necron unit, but I would drop one unit as you have enough fire power and replace with scarabs with disruption fields. Throw in a destroyer lord with a warscythe with the scarabs making a "bug zapper" formation. You can now tackle vehicles with the lord and scarabs (though scarabs will only glance) but you can tie up units in combat - swarms are damn annoying!

You have too many heavy destroyers as well, two units would be enough and you should get the job done then. Drop one unit and replace with two tiomb spyders.

Here is a list, check the points as I haven't but its close to 2k.

1 x Necron Lord - veil of darkness & resurrection orb

1 x Destroyer Lord - warscythe & phase shifter

5 x Immortals

5 x Immortals

10 x Warriors

10 x Warriors

10 x Warriors

6 x Scarab swams w/ disruption fields

5 x Destroyers

5 x Destroyers

3 x Heavy Destroyers

3 x Heavy Destroyers

2 x Tomb Spyders


Now we've got a more solid list, but still destroyer heavy. The veil lord goes with a unit of warriors and teleports around and rapid fires the gak out of the enemy, res orb to keep them ticking if power weapons etc start beating them down.

Destroyer lord goes with scarabs and goes after tanks rear armour as mentioned already.

Other two units of warriors are flanked by the tomb spyders, remember the spyders can be 3 per slot but can be deployed seperately. These act as combat blockers. What is there not to like about a T6 (?) monstrous creature

Destroyers and heavy destroyers shoot it up.

The veil lord goes with a unit of warriors and teleports around and rapid fires the gak out of the enemy, res orb to keep them ticking if power weapons etc start beating them down.

What? A lord with VoD teleporting warriors around is suicide guaranteed. They have to successfully land within 12" of an enemy unit and if they don't annihilate the squad from shooting(which is practically a guarantee) they will be assaulted next turn which is BAD for 'crons. Not to mention that you are VERY likely to just mishap the whole squad or land them out of range and still probably within assault range of the enemy.

The VoD is suicide in 5th and I wouldn't trust the advice of anyone suggesting you use for anything other than escape purposes(which is a waste of points IMO).

C'Tan are almost to good in 5th and I have at times not used them just because I don't want to trounce my opponent as bad as I did in a previous game. Use them!

You have speed, but they are pretty restricted to moving around together.

WBB also has the little rule where you need to have another model of the same type within a distance to get back up.

So you have no choice but to fly around together. Which is good that yo consolidate where your firepower is coming from, but bad in that the enemy knows where his shooting goes.

In addition, since almost everything has the same durability. Target priority is not hard for the opponent, which is a bad thing.
IMO, many overestimate the durability of T5 3+ armor though.
I run twice as many bikers or equivalent number of plague marines, it's just never enough bodies.

You are correct, Fenris-77, I want a different army than the norm. Although I disagree about Mechdar being a problem. Necrons are the bane of Mechanized eldar lists because they down the skimmers so easily.

And why would a C'tan need a cover save, Mercer? He has a 4++.

And yes, L.Cannons do not deny WBB unless they double the toughness. Destroyers are only afraid of strength 10.

And I agree with NecronLord3, C'tan are stupid powerful. They are 4 wound Wraithlords with an invul save. Now that they can run, they are charging turn 3. The enemy HAS to kill him or get obliterated in HtH. Anything a C'tan touches will get mauled. If you do manage to get into combat with something that is too risky, the Deceiver can just leave combat.

And I agree Sanctjud, the army would fly around in a pack, but that is the best way to focus their firepower on a smaller portion of the other player's army.

As for scoring missions, I disagree that it is an autoloss.

In 2 objective missions, you reserve your warriors onto your objective late game and contest the other with your destroyers and c'tan. In multiple objective missions you are definitely at a disadvantage, but you don't have to score every objective to win, just contest the ones your opponent holds and make sure you have at least one yourself. I know it is easier said than done, but I have lists that I play with a lot of success that only have two scoring units. Although, they are in transports which makes them much more reslient.

@Sarnath, as much as Stelek can be a jerk at times, he does know how to build a good list. That is a solid list there, but I wanted to go with an all, super mobile army. I was torn between all destroyers and all Immortals with monolith and veil of darkness lord backup.

You can take down skimmers yes, but that's not why the list hurts yours. It's the ability of the list to push you into coners in the first turn trying to avoid things like squads of Fire Dragons. Anything that can vape a squad or pin you in HtH. Combined with alphastrike to whittle you down I think a Mechdar list could be a real handful.

Enough theoryhammer though. I was just suggesting that other really fast lists could pose a problem since they mitigate one of your list's best features. I was just curious how you'd planned to deal with that sort of thing. In the course of discussing that sort of thing we may happen on a tweak or two for the list under consideration here. I had a plan there, really.

Reecius a cover save might be handy because some weapons do not allow invulnerable saves...

also c'tan suck. the person above who is saying they're good isnt thinking straight. c'tan belong in combat but are slow to get there. as you think steleks advice is good then you'll see he says c'tan suck too.

and, reason for warriors is you dont want expensive immortals hitting the deep strike mishap table, right? work out 10 warriors can rapid fire just as many shots as immortals and cost cheaper, and if you deep strike within 12 of the target like your going to scatter the full 12 onto the target.

if you check the list i written it is alike yours using destroyers and i think very like steleks. give it a whirl


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reecius a cover save might be handy because some weapons do not allow invulnerable saves...

also c'tan suck. the person above who is saying they're good isnt thinking straight. c'tan belong in combat but are slow to get there. as you think steleks advice is good then you'll see he says c'tan suck too.

and, reason for warriors is you dont want expensive immortals hitting the deep strike mishap table, right? work out 10 warriors can rapid fire just as many shots as immortals and cost cheaper, and if you deep strike within 12 of the target like your going to scatter the full 12 onto the target.

if you check the list i written it is alike yours using destroyers and i think very like steleks. give it a whirl

@Fenris,
I see your point, and yeah, a squad of banshees in your face turn two is no good. Dragons aren't too bad though as they won't deny WBB.

@mercer
Weapons that deny invul saves are pretty damn rare though, and most will be wounding you on a 6. I don't think that is a factor that needs to come into consideration unless the meta game in your area is full of grey knights.

That list does look solid. Funny thing with stelek though, he talks a big game, does make solid lists, but he never wins any tournaments himself! Every time someone calls him out, he ducks the challenge, too. The one time he accepted a challenge from a Dakkaite he got his ass handed to him. But oh well, it is pointless to say things when he isn't here to defend himself, and credit where it's due, the guy does know his 40K. Although I have to disagree about the C'tan, I have never seen either of them do anything but kick huge amounts of ass.