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In planning for an upcomming escalation campaign, my buddy is running a list with grotz. Looking back, I have never ever seen a grot show up in a game in the last 5 years I have been playing. Is there simply no use for grotz, or are they an unused gem for the points compared to what they do??

I haven't played them, for manifold reasons completely unrelated to their specific stats and tactics. I can see a definite place for them, either as a screening unit or as a cheap-as-dirt troop selection to hold a homefield objective that is otherwise protected by things that can survive/fight back against a deepstrike or outflank. Maybe that's because it's what I've heard they're good for and maybe it's because that's the most sensible tactic. Either way, were it convenient, I'd try them. If it fit, I'd play them.

I love grots , infact if they replace orks , it would be even better!

oops didnt see this was in tactics ...

never tried them >.>

Grotz are best used to hold an objective in the own deployment zone.
But watch out for fast moving units or outflankers.

never used 'em. in smaller games I can see the point of a cheap scoring unit, but when the point limit rises, the need for more boys is far more important.(ESPECIALLY when using trukk boys)

(my 2 cents)

They're heaps of fun, but usually not worth the price of half an ork boy, especially as their herder can no longer take a big shoota or rokkit.

Cheap BS3 cannon fodder? What's not to LOVE?

Commissar Molotov wrote:Cheap BS3 cannon fodder? What's not to LOVE?

They breed like mice for starters...

Grots are semi-decent, the problem is that for double the points Ork Boyz are a much more fantastic bargain.

However, were I to ressurect my Orks I'd throw in some Grots for the hell of it.

They're great for absorbing wounds that would otherwise hit specialists like Burna Boyz or Flash Gitz, but you have to know what you're doing, particularly in the shooting phase.

i love grots, the only way i would consider an ork army would be with 180 grots, yea there rubbish without the correct support, but my opponent would be incapacitated with laughter.

(well with the lists i wrote for fun, canz buggies and nob bikers will be doing all the work anyway, grotz are just fun, and always underestimated)

Its the gun they get that halts me a little... I'd just love the choice that 3 grots replace their guns for one grotzooger between them.

the_ferrett wrote:Its the gun they get that halts me a little... I'd just love the choice that 3 grots replace their guns for one grotzooger between them.

Or if big gunz could be a part of a grotz mob.

Grotz need a lot of love from GW. Half the cost of an Ork Boy for a BS3 grow that only has an assault 1 str 3 weapon with a 12" range. Grotz are out gunned by shoota boys, end of story.

There are several things that should be done for grots.

1) make them like lesser daemons so they don't count as a troops choice for force organization points.

2) Lower the cost to 2 or 2.5 points each.

3) Give them more gun options. Say an 18" range rapid fire str 3 weapon.

I only use them for the big gunz. Thats it. IMO grots are just a laughable joke and not even worth a friendly games time. If it werent for the big gunz, then Id never even use. Although that "Great Grot Rebellion" army is pretty damn cool looking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

schadenfreude wrote:Grotz need a lot of love from GW. Half the cost of an Ork Boy for a BS3 grow that only has an assault 1 str 3 weapon with a 12" range. Grotz are out gunned by shoota boys, end of story.

There are several things that should be done for grots.

1) make them like lesser daemons so they don't count as a troops choice for force organization points.

2) Lower the cost to 2 or 2.5 points each.

3) Give them more gun options. Say an 18" range rapid fire str 3 weapon.

Uhm yea..... but the problem with the str3 weapon, is that most of the time, you need to roll a 5 or 6 to wound (seeing as SM are the most popular, everyone one has played against SM before) which is just as un likely as shooting with an Ork. Except shooting with an Ork is hands down better compaired to shooting with a grot

Grots and Orks fill different functions. Orks are an offensive unit, where grots are a defensive unit.
These are the roles I have found for grots.

Mobile Cover
Grots can screen orks and provide a 4+ cover save for the advancing boyz. Why lose 6 point models when you can lose a cheaper one? When facing a heavy assault based army, like 'nids, the grots can also take the hormagaunt charge. When the grots wipe, your boys can mop up the mess.

Camping Objectives
40k is not about killing models, its about winning the game. The game is about objectives and VPs. Why would you put a 215 point ork squad on an objective near your table edge when you can put a 107 point grot squad there instead? That frees up more points for the boys on the offensive.
If their taking fire, just go to ground to protect them. The 3+ cover save goes a long way.

Grabba Sticks
This is more of a neat tactic when it appears rather than a game strategy. If you have 3 runtherders with grabba sticks, you can lower attacks by 3. This means the Carnifex, Avatar, Dreadnought, DP, etc... are getting 1 attack per assault phase. While the grots may never be able to kill the MC, it will be tied up for the rest of the game killing one 3 point model a turn!

Humor
Grots provide great humor when they do actually get a chance to shoot. You can boast about how they are 'da best shots' with their BS of a 3. Noone expects them to do anything, so when they actually do kill MEQ its quite funny for all parties. If you play in a WAAC environment, this does not get you any mileage, but for friendly games its fun.

They've also served me delightfully in apoc.
4 small groups of 10ish kept in reserve untill turn three, where they slip onto unprotected objectives in sections of the board(s) where the fighting is over and are basically deserted.
SURPRISE!
Great fun. Plus all the great points made by Labmouse42.

Grots are fine in the right army. A 4+ cover save for much more valuable targets, such as shoota boyz or lootas? Yes, please! But in a mechanized ork list, I have no use for them.

I've had shooty armies with 4 units of grots (proxies, I only have one 30-man unit): one for the meat shield that surrounded three 15-man loota squads, and 3 20-man (19+runtherd) in 3 gunship-style battlewagons to take objectives.

If I have some extra points, a full unit of grots held in reserve to come onto an objective on my side of the board is always a nice choice.

I love them in anything under 2k because either I can hold a 235-points shoota mob back from where it's most effective to hold objectives in my deployment or I can hold a 67-point unit with 20 models back to camp those objectives and send my expensive fighting units to where they can fight. Sometimes in small games I literally take the points for gretchin out of a 30-man boyz mob. A 235 point mob gets turned into a 170-point 20-man boyz mob to go fight and a 64-point 19-man grot mob to hold an objective or two in my zone for objectives games or screen the boyz to provide cover saves in annihilation (I wouldn't take them just for screening tho) and this leaves the boyz free 'ta git into da fight!'

Labmouse made the points very well. They make cheap screens, and even cheaper home-objective holders. Put them in reserve to start so your opponent can’t target them, then just run them onto an objective near your table edge and Go to Ground. If you didn’t put said objective in cover, shame on you!

They're worth it just for that one-shot-in-36 that kills a Terminator.

I also like them for sticking to my fun units like the SAG that has a chance to wipe out whatever squad it's in. 15 Gretchin gives plenty of wound soak to the SAG and it won't be devestating if snake eyes pop up.

Grotz are also a cheap ablative armour for units like SAG's. You attach the SAG to a small force of Grotz and it saves it from being taken out by a single long range shot. Now, if you take 25% casualties the SAG may flee off the board with your herd of Grotz, but at that point it would have already been killed anyway if it was alone.

Also, a huge mob of Grotz can be surprisingly effective with their little Grot Blastas.

I'm just happy they're called Gretchin again.

I lovez 'em!

Mainly because the new plastic kit has some funny looking ones and they just have a special place in the fluff quarter of my heart.

Grotz have won me more games with my orks than any other unit.

People complaining "their gun is rubbish" "they can't kill anything" are missing the point.

There are 4 main tactical uses of grotz in a list.

1. Grot Screen - 80 pts buys you 20 grots and 2 herders or a KFF. For a footslogging force the KFF will grant a 5++ save, the grots wil grant a 4++. That helps keep those more expensive shoota and slugga boyz alive as they advance across the battlefield more effectively for the same points. Oh and the extra wounds, extra sots and extra attacks over the KFF are a pure bonus.

The only downside if a drop in mobility since you can only manouveur as fast as the grots so if they roll a 1 to run you either have to break past the screen or slow down.

I use this strategy nearly every game to minimise incoming damage as I move up the field.

2. Grot Shield

If packed together tightly enough (i.e. less than the full 2") the enemy cannot assault past your gretchin to get at the orks behind. As we all know orks are amazing on the charge but rubbish if they get charged. If you have a bunch of grots in front of your orks the enemy cannot charge you. He either has to shoot the grots away (and there are 20 of them) or he has to charge them. The grots will almost certainly die but then the enemy is left out in the open ready to be charged by the rest of your force.

I used this just the other weekend against a chaos player. 2 dreads, a daemon prince, a greater daemon and a squad of berserkers were all poised close to my orks and ready to charge but the grot screen was in the way of all these units. He couldn't charge me and instead was shot + charged by me the next turn depriving him of his daemons and zerkers in one turn.

3. Hold objctives - in at least one mission we need to leave a unit at home whilst the rest of the short ranged ork army goes and does some killing. 80pts gets you 20 wounds, probably in cover, probably going to ground that only have to exist to potentially win the game. 160pts buys you 20 orks who aren't going to do the job any better at all.

4. Bait - this is more of a psychological trick but you'd be amazed how often it works.

In Dawn of War you can only deploy 2 troops and 1 HQ. I routinely deploy my gretchin in a vulnerable position and leave the rest of my army ready to emerge turn 1. Players don't like to do nothing, they like to feel like they've achieved something even if it is just killing grots. So most players will move towards the gretchin "bait" in their turn and try and shoot/assault them. In one tournament I had a ravenwing player manage a first turn assault against my grots with a big expensive bike unit and kill them all. In response my entire army including some bikes marched on, shot and charged him and made short work of that expensive unit.

This works against any opponent where you might want to reserve your entire army i.e. daemons. Take everything away and he'll get canny by deploying into cover, out of line of sight, too far from the edge, etc. Give him a focus however and most players will send at least 1 unit to go kill the grots which gives you 1 unit you can move up, shoot and assault turn 1.

Those 80pts can be used to lure your opponent into making tactical misjudgements which can help you.


There are of course dozens of other uses, they can bodyguard a Big Mek, they can actually shoot something sometimes maybe if they get lucky, they can assault an enemy and pull it out of position and with 2 herders their actually pretty good at taking on MC's. But none of those other uses have ever helped me directly win games like the first 4.

Arguably all of these can be done using standard orks who are also better at killing. But those orks won't do the grots jobs any better than the grots and they'll cost twice the price, if all you want from a unit is to die and in so doing potentially win a game then keep that unit cheap.

Let me just say, this was a very well written opinion and I often use the same tactics with my very inexpensive gaunts. I guess if you play for people who look at the game 1 turn at a time instead of 2 or 3 turns ahead like I try to do, this little tactic would be very useful in every circumstance (as long as you can be a wise enough general). Well reasoned, well written, and very insightful!

Grots are nice for baiting purposes, especially against arseholes who look at large screening units and think of an easy kill before the real force, rather than having their melee killers tied up for a turn or 2.

I usually run Boyz over Grotz for the Mob rule advantage. Especially when stopping something like an Ironclad from assassinating my Megaboss/Ghaz/"Complex Nob mob.

As far as shooting goes, their guns are worse than laspistols as they grant +1 Attack to Guardsmen. I know that they can cause more shooting casualities, but I feel the real problem is that competing with Boyz who can do alot more, and are harder to kill.

Also to anyone who mentioned the cost of boyz being twice that of the Gretchin, paaaaaaaaaaleeeez, 3 points is not that big a deal for T4, the rare 6+ armour save and Mob Rule.

Also something you guys should tryout for shitz and gigglez is to take Mad Dok Grotsnik and gear 3 Gretchin mobz with Cybork Bodies to act as screens for a more competitive force.
Its funny because the other guy simply assumes its fluff and ignores the sheer number of hits it takes to kill a grot mob.

That is till turn 3...

About that time your face should've been punched or something similar as my opponents pretty much describe it as the most annoying thing they've faced since Complex Nobz.

Put them infront of your boyz squads, for that mobile cover save, and if you leave enough space between them (1in between stands) you can assault any unit with your boysz that assault your grots

Gretchin make GREAT bullet sponges and screens to provide 4+ cover saves for the rest of your army.