Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Big Mek
-Kustom Force Field
-Cybork Body
95

Lootas x15
225

Shoota Boyz x30 x3
-Big Shootas x3
-Nob
--Power Klaw
--Boss Pole
705

Killa Kanz x3 x3
-Grotzookas x3
405

1430

Total model count: 115
Average model worth: 12.4

It is attempting to be a list where the Kans ride in front, protecting the boyz. The KFF mek rides behind them, in a mob, protecting the mob and the Kans. The Lootas sit back, popping light vehicles that might threaten the formation, such as Vindicators.

What shall I spend the remaining points on? I was considering some objective holding grotz.

Very solid and simple list IMHO. I agree about the objective holding grots. I suggest 19 + runtherd = 67 pts. . I like your list. Might even try it sometime but I have to build some scratch kans coz they're soooo expensive if you're buying 9.

*looks around blearily* HAPPY NEW YEAR!

1. Three units of Killa Kans, with Grotzookas....check! Don't change it.

2. Your big Mek is going to be in a gigantic unit of 30 boys. That cybork body is wasted. If you put his unit in close combat, leave him at the rear. He's got a 4+ cover save from the killa-kans, so having a 5+ is redundant.

3. Have you field tested this yet? Getting a single Big Mek to cover nine killa-kans with that KFF is....difficult. Lemme try a diagram: X=Boyz ---- = Killa-kans.
___
___ X ___
X X

My asci art is butt, but you can use that (with the killa kans closer together than seen here, with the big mek in the central unit providing a 4+ to the killa kans). If you're going to stretch them out in a straight unit of nine...you're pretty much going to need 2x Big Meks. You can also use the "Flying V" formation, which is a reverse V, kind of like a big ^. You run forward with all your boys in the middle of the formation, and you can probably squeak by with a single big mek there as well.

4. Lootas: Interesting choice here, and I don't think that they belong. You're going to be advance your entire army across the board except for one unit. That one unit absorbs 15% of your points. You're going to leave that one unit in the rear by itself, where a single drop pod, or a single speeder, or snikrot's squad, or a single fast skimmer turbo-boosting over your main forces, or a single out-flanking unit can annihilate it. It doesn't fit into the synergy of a kan-wall. Don't get me wrong, Lootas are great...in a firing line armylist that offers itself support and redundancy. Don't use them. If you refuse to take them out, you need to protect them - that unit of gretchin needs to surround them in a physical wall of flesh - the gretchin. Add 67 points to your Loota needs, and now 20% of your army is tied up in that single unit that is an awkward 5th wheel.

5. Snikrot and kommandos would fit your list much better. You WANT to pile into your enemy as soon as possible with a writhing mass of STR10 DCCWs. Use Snikrot to make your enemy afraid of the table edges. Make them pile into the middle and closer to you so you can get to them sooner.

6. Boss Poles - You know, I've never been sold on boss-poles. You're fearless until you have less than 10. With 4+ cover saves going up the board, either you have absorbed an entire army's worth of firepower for a couple turns with that unit, or you're getting your ass kicked in close combat. If the former...well, good. The rest of the army is likely unhurt. If the latter...a bosspole isn't going to save you. You would have lost by a massive number of boys, and getting to reroll your leadership when you need to roll 1/2/3/4/5 or something is meaningless.

That's about all I have to say. I think you need to shore up a few things depending on how you plan on playing them.

How about giving the Kanz kustom mega blastas?
They are AP 2.

wuestenfux wrote:How about giving the Kanz kustom mega blastas?
They are AP 2.

How about no? That's a horrible idea. ><

Dashofpepper wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:How about giving the Kanz kustom mega blastas?
They are AP 2.

How about no? That's a horrible idea. ><

Not disagreeing, but why is that a horrible idea? I would think the S8 would be handy vs. mech, and the AP2 good for negating Tyranid lists, FNP units, and termies.

SAJ wrote:

Not disagreeing, but why is that a horrible idea? I would think the S8 would be handy vs. mech, and the AP2 good for negating Tyranid lists, FNP units, and termies.

Those KMBs are single shot, and even at BS3 with the killa-kans, they aren't scaring anything. Lemme address your thoughts more concisely.

Tyranid lists: Assault 2 blast templates x3 per unit are going to do a LOT more damage to genestealers than KMBs. Not to mention 90 shoota boys. Against monstrous creatures...that's what those STR10 DCCWs are for. A single unit gets nine STR10 attacks on the charge against a MC. Giving up those grotzookas and your ability to deal with massed troops isn't worth it.

FNP units: If you math-hammer out three KMBs shooting at a unit of plague marines vs. three Grotzookas shooting at the same unit...the KMBs don't really have an advantage. Granted, scatter is important, but at the end of the day....all those killa kans have 27x STR10 close-combat attacks on the charge.

Terminators: See above.

Ahhh, it's so clear now. I suppose I was getting hung up on the kans' BS3 and thinking I needed them to be shooters.

Well, nine Kanz with grotzookaz give you lots of templates but 66% of them will scatter on average.
Think about 9 Kanz with KMB, you get 4 or 5 hits on average and about 4 wounds against tougher opponents.
Do this for about 3 or 4 rounds...

wuestenfux wrote:
Do this for about 3 or 4 rounds...

Ok, thats about 12-16 wounds, with grotzookas, you can hit much more in 3-4 turns ya know, if a single blast template can cover about 10 models :S. KMB is useless on kans, been there, done that, Dash (as always) youre right + a game is nearly 3-4 truns so it's a REAL waste of points.

Dashofpepper wrote:*looks around blearily* HAPPY NEW YEAR!

1. Three units of Killa Kans, with Grotzookas....check! Don't change it.

2. Your big Mek is going to be in a gigantic unit of 30 boys. That cybork body is wasted. If you put his unit in close combat, leave him at the rear. He's got a 4+ cover save from the killa-kans, so having a 5+ is redundant.

3. Have you field tested this yet? Getting a single Big Mek to cover nine killa-kans with that KFF is....difficult. Lemme try a diagram: X=Boyz ---- = Killa-kans.
___
___ X ___
X X

My asci art is butt, but you can use that (with the killa kans closer together than seen here, with the big mek in the central unit providing a 4+ to the killa kans). If you're going to stretch them out in a straight unit of nine...you're pretty much going to need 2x Big Meks. You can also use the "Flying V" formation, which is a reverse V, kind of like a big ^. You run forward with all your boys in the middle of the formation, and you can probably squeak by with a single big mek there as well.

4. Lootas: Interesting choice here, and I don't think that they belong. You're going to be advance your entire army across the board except for one unit. That one unit absorbs 15% of your points. You're going to leave that one unit in the rear by itself, where a single drop pod, or a single speeder, or snikrot's squad, or a single fast skimmer turbo-boosting over your main forces, or a single out-flanking unit can annihilate it. It doesn't fit into the synergy of a kan-wall. Don't get me wrong, Lootas are great...in a firing line armylist that offers itself support and redundancy. Don't use them. If you refuse to take them out, you need to protect them - that unit of gretchin needs to surround them in a physical wall of flesh - the gretchin. Add 67 points to your Loota needs, and now 20% of your army is tied up in that single unit that is an awkward 5th wheel.

5. Snikrot and kommandos would fit your list much better. You WANT to pile into your enemy as soon as possible with a writhing mass of STR10 DCCWs. Use Snikrot to make your enemy afraid of the table edges. Make them pile into the middle and closer to you so you can get to them sooner.

6. Boss Poles - You know, I've never been sold on boss-poles. You're fearless until you have less than 10. With 4+ cover saves going up the board, either you have absorbed an entire army's worth of firepower for a couple turns with that unit, or you're getting your ass kicked in close combat. If the former...well, good. The rest of the army is likely unhurt. If the latter...a bosspole isn't going to save you. You would have lost by a massive number of boys, and getting to reroll your leadership when you need to roll 1/2/3/4/5 or something is meaningless.

That's about all I have to say. I think you need to shore up a few things depending on how you plan on playing them.

1. Easy enough.

2. Okey-dokey, removing the cybork army in the name of points conservation.

3. Fit in another KFF Mek in order to protect the wall so I can avoid being bunched up. Check.

4. No lootas? I understand they clash with the synergy with the list, but if they are removed, what part of my army fills the gap of light-tank killers? Kans and klaws are nice, but near useless if the target moves 12" or if the target is out of charge range, e.g. a vindicator or a thunderfire cannon. I'll remove them if that's what's best, but I'd like to know their place is filled. Would it help if I tried to place them closer to the front, so I can get a squad to double back to save them?

5. How is the Snikrot mob supposed to be armed? A full mob? Also, what targets is it supposed to hit? Is it a suicide mob? How is it to be used, apart from a stick to scare the opponents away from the edge.

6. I'll take the poles if I don't have anything else.

I think I'll take the grots and use them to claim objectives. The enemy will have to devote more than 67 points worth to get rid of them, so they're earning their worth. If they don't get wiped out, they've claimed an objective. If annihilation gets rolled, I'll have them cover my flank.

Thanks for your help.

i my self like the idea of running rokkets on the kans. with a BS of 3 it help with some long range (24inch) anti armor.

sickening wrote:i my self like the idea of running rokkets on the kans. with a BS of 3 it help with some long range (24inch) anti armor.

For 5 pts more you get KMB's with better AP.

Big Mek
-Kustom Force Field
85

Kommandos x14+1
-Burnas x2
-Boss Snikrot
255

Shoota Boyz x30 x3
-Big Shootas x3
-Nob
--Power Klaw
--Boss Pole
705

Killa Kanz x3 x3
-Grotzookas x3
405

1450

Is this right? It doesn't seem so. I don't have enough points to add another KFF Mek and I've lost my cover fire.

You could knock a few Kommandos off, unit just needs to be above 10, burnas and Snikrot.

Kommandos x14+1
-Burnas x2
-Boss Snikrot
255

This unit is too expensive for what it can achieve.
Snikrot sucks as the mob lacks a needed power klaw.

Looks like you could easily find the points to attach a warboss w/ PK & bosspole to the kommandos. RaW, you'd be able to Ambush with the whole bunch

I don't play Orks, but I do possess the codex. Might I suggest:

Ghazghkull Thraka

KFF Mek

9x Kommandos + Snikrot

29x Boyz w/ Shoota + PK Nob

29x Boyz w/ Shoota + PK Nob

29x Boyz w/ Shoota + PK Nob

3x Killa Kan x3 Grotzooka

3x Killa Kan x3 Grotzooka

3x Killa Kan x3 Grotzooka

1500 on the button. Kommandos are purely for the 'surrounded' feel. Ghaz is mainly for his Waagh, but he's pretty BA in CC too. Looking along the lines of something you'd try?

Pika_power wrote:Big Mek
-Kustom Force Field
85

Big Mek
-Kustom Force Field
85

Kommandos x12+1
-Burnas x2
-Boss Snikrot
235

Shoota Boyz x30 x3
-Big Shootas x3
-Nob
--Power Klaw
690

Killa Kanz x3 x3
-Grotzookas x3
405

1500

Is this right? It doesn't seem so. I don't have enough points to add another KFF Mek and I've lost my cover fire.

"Moddeefied" your post for you. You could loose one kommando without much detriment & gain back two bosspoles if you really wanted to. Otherwise, That ^ ^

Okay, got it.

list 1 wrote:
Big Mek
-Kustom Force Field
85

Big Mek
-Kustom Force Field
85

Kommandos x12+1
-Burnas x2
-Boss Snikrot
235

Shoota Boyz x30 x3
-Big Shootas x3
-Nob
--Power Klaw
690

Killa Kanz x3 x3
-Grotzookas x3
405

list 2 wrote:
Big Mek
-Kustom Force Field
85

Big Mek
-Kustom Force Field
85

Lootas x15
225

Shoota Boyz x30
-Big Shootas x3
-Nob
--Power Klaw
230

Shoota Boyz x30 x2
-Big Shootas x3
-Nob
--Power Klaw
--Boss Pole
235

Killa Kanz x3 x3
-Grotzookas x3
405

1500

It's a toss up between those two lists. I'll probably try the Loota one first, as I happen to have a couple of boxes of them, so I can easily get another.

Not sure if you really need two Big Mekz with KFF.
By clever movement of the Kan wall, one might be sufficient.

wuestenfux wrote:How about giving the Kanz kustom mega blastas?
They are AP 2.

They are Assault 1 while grotzzoka Heavy 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, why not give the Mek himself a klaw?

Why no PK Mek? Because by the time your Mek is landing attacks they should have chewed through the rest of your army. You're wanting that Mek alive to almost the very last. Its a support HQ not a combat one.

tokugawa wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:How about giving the Kanz kustom mega blastas?
They are AP 2.

They are Assault 1 while grotzzoka Heavy 2.

What's the killing potential of an unreliable grotzooka?

Well, imagine the Kan wall comes across a nasty MC.
Then 9 shots from KMB's with BS 3 are quite useful.

I'll consider KMBs. Perhaps I'll make this my first magnetizing project, so I can switch them around. However at the moment my focus is somewhere else.

I'm still unsure about the Lootas V.S. Snikrot Kommandos. I can see the benefit in Snikrot and co, but I feel that I need some things that can provide fire support, and Lootas are one of the select few units that can do that.

To see the full decision, I wrote up the two different lists in an above post.

Snikrot sucks.
I'd consider a Boss with bosspole and power klaw.

Holy crap.

OP, please ignore EVERYTHING that wuestenfux has posted in this thread. It is anti-orkish and horrible advice.

wuestenfux, you're obviously a space marine player - why don't you go post in space marine threads instead of giving our ork players bad advice?

Snikrot does NOT suck. Feel free to back up your wild assertion.

If a kan wall comes across a nasty MC...they're going to STR10 DCCW power weapon it to death instantly.

As for leaving out a big mek and using clever movement to make one sufficient, this was addressed earlier in the thread. It is unrealistic. Feel free to go in-depth about the clever movement that you're talking about that wasn't already addressed here though.

And seriously, stop making wild assertions without offering supporting reasons or validity for them. This kind of crap seriously increases the noise and trash level on the forums and makes people like me hate posting because there's so much rubbish to get through to find something worth reading.

Holy crap.

OP, please ignore EVERYTHING that wuestenfux has posted in this thread. It is anti-orkish and horrible advice.

wuestenfux, you're obviously a space marine player - why don't you go post in space marine threads instead of giving our ork players bad advice?

Snikrot does NOT suck. Feel free to back up your wild assertion.

Lol.

I see you posting equally valuable stuff across all races and army lists. Guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Dashofpepper wrote:I see you posting equally valuable stuff across all races and army lists. Guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Well, I'm a generalist.