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I am wondering how much weaker space marine would be without his power armor and bolter.Imagine a marine fighting with lasgun and flak armor.

IvanTih wrote:I am wondering how much weaker space marine would be without his power armor and bolter.Imagine a marine fighting with lasgun and flak armor.

That's what scouts are, except with a Shotgun and Carapace armour (aka Storm Troopahz)

So basically:

WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv5+

Wargear:
Frag and Krak Grenades
Laspistol
Lasgun
Flak Armour

Special Rules:
And They Shall Know No Fear
Combat Tactics
Combat Squads
Infiltrate

Options:
As Scouts.

Gwar! wrote:

IvanTih wrote:I am wondering how much weaker space marine would be without his power armor and bolter.Imagine a marine fighting with lasgun and flak armor.

That's what scouts are, except with a Shotgun and Carapace armour (aka Storm Troopahz)

A marine with fast reflexes,great strength,hearing,vision etc....A full marine with black carapace,I guess that he wouldn't be weak as a storm trooper.

Space Marines are fast enough to dodge bullets, strong enough to easily kill someone with their bare hands, and resilient enough to survive a lot of trauma to their limbs and torso. They don't need to sleep and can eat pretty much anything, they have superhuman hearing and sight (and smell, for puppies at least) and carapace under their skin. They have had thousands of tactics and simulations played through their heads thanks to both regular studying and hypnotherapy, they have fought on dozens of alien worlds and against hundreds of types of enemies, they're pretty much fearless and completely loyal to their mission. They'd be pretty dangerous no matter their equipment.

Of course, lasguns are better than modern machine guns for the most part, and flak armor is probably better than most modern armor as well (it protects you from .50 cal machine guns). They certainly wouldn't be bad things to be equipped with, although they obviously can't compare to power armor.

Plus, consider that Scouts are for the most part not as trained as a typical brother. Take a fully trained marine and give them a scout's equipment, and they'll be pretty formidable, though not as much as they would've been fully equiped. Give a marine no armor, and think of them as being slightly less durable than an Ork Boy. Or so I'd guess.

LiberatedObject wrote:Take a fully trained marine and give them a scout's equipment

Ding Ding Ding, you've described a Scout Sergeant

Lasgun's aren't as better than modern assault rifles. They're just (alot) more reliable and don't need ammo (just a recharge, which their super batteries allow them to do anywhere at any time).

Marines are so strong they can accidently kill a regular human just trying to puch them out of their way.

They're so tough, it would take an entire clip from an ass. rifle to drop one.

They would see you/hear you/smell you first (and so shoot first). Marine would be vastly better than normal soldier for sure, even without the armour (which provides little more than an armour save and some extra environmental defence/awareness).

Gwar! wrote:

LiberatedObject wrote:Take a fully trained marine and give them a scout's equipment

Ding Ding Ding, you've described a Scout Sergeant

Take a fully trained marine and give him standard guardsmen equipment.

IvanTih wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

LiberatedObject wrote:Take a fully trained marine and give them a scout's equipment

Ding Ding Ding, you've described a Scout Sergeant

Take a fully trained marine and give him standard guardsmen equipment.

Ding Ding Ding, you've described a Space Wolf Scout trapped behind enemy lines for 30 years. And he still will kick your ass without even breaking a sweat.

Gwar! wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

LiberatedObject wrote:Take a fully trained marine and give them a scout's equipment

Ding Ding Ding, you've described a Scout Sergeant

Take a fully trained marine and give him standard guardsmen equipment.

Ding Ding Ding, you've described a Space Wolf Scout trapped behind enemy lines for 30 years. And he still will kick your ass without even breaking a sweat.

By then he will become veteran.

IvanTih wrote:By then he will become veteran.

No, he won't.

Firstly, Space Wolves don't have "Veterans". Secondly, Space Wolf Scouts do missions like that without a 2nd thought all the time.

Gwar! wrote:

Firstly, Space Wolves don't have "Veterans".

Really? no vets?

Poor welps then...

Gwar! wrote:

IvanTih wrote:By then he will become veteran.

No, he won't.

Firstly, Space Wolves don't have "Veterans". Secondly, Space Wolf Scouts do missions like that without a 2nd thought all the time.

I meant that he will have a plenty of battle experience.

If i remember SW dont have veterns as we call them Vetern there LIke called Long fangs or some bloodclaws....( i dont play SW so its just another term for veterns) or am i wrong on that...

StarGate wrote:If i remember SW dont have veterns as we call them Vetern there LIke called Long fangs or some bloodclaws....( i dont play SW so its just another term for veterns) or am i wrong on that...

Youre wrong.

GWAR said no vets, therefore Space wolves are all dead before achieving veteran status


OTOH, maybe it was :

Wolfguard, Long Fangs, Dreads

Who can be sure

BUt i though i hear or read some place there veterns become devie squads hense there name of Long fangs, due to there age and experience.... Or was some one blowing smoke up my @$$.

I don't remember any fluff establishing that black carapace in any way served as protection.

Anyway, your average SM w/o power armor, but lowlier equipment(flak vest, helmet, autogun) would still be superior to many fielded soldiers.

They'd still be strong enough to break an adult human male over their knee with ease, fast enough to get in position 2.5x-3x quicker, and have the capacity to maintain unmatched levels of situational awareness and dexterous enough to headshot mofos like an arcade shooter on easy mode.

Granted, they wouldn't be *as* strong, fast, durable etc. as with power armor, but they'd still be a force to be reckoned with.

Of course, a well-placed explosive round or sustained fire would still screw them over, SM or not.

They would still make (very) effective guerilla's, scouts and masters of hit-and-run, sabotage ect. But their value on a open battlefield would be nowhere near as great.

Zio wrote:Lasgun's aren't as better than modern assault rifles. They're just (alot) more reliable and don't need ammo (just a recharge, which their super batteries allow them to do anywhere at any time).

Well, an assault rifle that is more reliable than any modern assault rifle and doesn't need to be supplied with ammo is better. That's the whole point.

Lasgun can be recharged by a sun,after a few hours your empty clip is now full or you can recharge by fire,but that reduces capacity to half.
*Screenshooting mine 888th post*

Ronin-Sage wrote:I don't remember any fluff establishing that black carapace in any way served as protection.

I assumed from it's status as a "carapace" that it must protect the marine to some extent. That would be a long way from offering any sort of protection from bullets, though, it would probably only help against shrapnel or things of that nature.

The carapace.... fluff, its partially implanted into their epidermis (skin) and it has plugs/connectors that allow it to connect to a regular space marines power armor (there are some special suits that regular humans can wear) it allows them more efficient usage of their power armor..

Oh, I know, I was just saying it likely adds some protection as well (why else would it harden when implanted?)

I also share your point Orkeosaur.Marines are bulletproof to modern day small arms weapons.

A point about that: remember that the To Wound roll doesn't represent whether the model is injured, but how badly and whether that wound is disabling. T4 may prevent a Space Marine from being immediately disabled by having a hand or foot shot off, but it doesn't make him bulletproof.

back in second Ed, guardmens had a option of laz guns or assault rifles( something like that) I remember, the models for them.... Giveing a dark angel a las pistol was alway a great choice over boltpistol....lol

Honestly, I would make a SM without Powered Armour S3. A very high S3, considering what they're capable of with their bare hands, but we all know that the armour is called powered for a reason. I know scouts are S4, but I'm not a fan of that either.

Remember that Strength isn't raw power but the ability to cause damage.

When the black carapace was introduced it was given as the reason for making Space Marines T4. Previously Space Marines had been T3.

I used to have a Space Marine with an autogun.