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A lot of sources say that Promethium, the fuel used in flamers, ignites on contact with air. So why do flamers have an igniter?

Because it makes it look like, "HEY, I SPIT FIRE!!!"

Yep.

Science and logic will never stand in the way of some good Grimdark fluff.

Kilkrazy wrote:Yep.

Science and logic will never stand in the way of some good Grimdark fluff.

it
I wonder too why do they have it at all.

alexwars1 wrote:A lot of sources say that Promethium, the fuel used in flamers

Promethium is a radioactive element, not used in flame-throwers

Wikipedia wrote:Promethium (pronounced /prɵˈmiːθiəm/, pro-MEE-thee-əm) is a chemical element with the symbol Pm and atomic number 61. It is notable for being the only other exclusively radioactive element besides technetium which is followed by chemical elements that have stable isotopes.

Promethium must be handled with great care because of its high radioactivity. In particular, promethium can emit X-rays during its beta decay. Its half-life is less than that of plutonium-239 by a factor of about 1350, and its biological toxicity is correspondingly higher. Promethium has no biological role.

How a flamer-thrower works

Wikipedia wrote:Liquid-operated flamethrowers use a smaller propane tank to expel the liquid. For safety reasons, the propane tank is behind the combustible liquid tanks in order to prevent being hit by a bullet. The propane is fed to two tubes. The first opens in the napalm tanks, providing the pressure necessary for expelling the liquid [3]. The other tube leads to an ignition chamber behind the exit of the gun assembly, where it is mixed with air and ignited through piezo ignition. This pre-ignition propane line is the source of the flame seen in front of the gun assembly in movies and documentaries. As the napalm passes through the flame, it is ignited and propelled towards the target.

and the reason for a flame at the end of the barrel

Wikipedia wrote:The unreliability of electronic ignition systems meant that operators sometimes had to use a Zippo lighter to ignite the fuel as it left the nozzle.

Squig_herder wrote:

alexwars1 wrote:A lot of sources say that Promethium, the fuel used in flamers

Promethium is a radioactive element, not used in flame-throwers

Wikipedia wrote:Promethium (pronounced /prɵˈmiːθiəm/, pro-MEE-thee-əm) is a chemical element with the symbol Pm and atomic number 61. It is notable for being the only other exclusively radioactive element besides technetium which is followed by chemical elements that have stable isotopes.

Promethium must be handled with great care because of its high radioactivity. In particular, promethium can emit X-rays during its beta decay. Its half-life is less than that of plutonium-239 by a factor of about 1350, and its biological toxicity is correspondingly higher. Promethium has no biological role.

How a flamer-thrower works

Wikipedia wrote:Liquid-operated flamethrowers use a smaller propane tank to expel the liquid. For safety reasons, the propane tank is behind the combustible liquid tanks in order to prevent being hit by a bullet. The propane is fed to two tubes. The first opens in the napalm tanks, providing the pressure necessary for expelling the liquid [3]. The other tube leads to an ignition chamber behind the exit of the gun assembly, where it is mixed with air and ignited through piezo ignition. This pre-ignition propane line is the source of the flame seen in front of the gun assembly in movies and documentaries. As the napalm passes through the flame, it is ignited and propelled towards the target.

and the reason for a flame at the end of the barrel

Wikipedia wrote:The unreliability of electronic ignition systems meant that operators sometimes had to use a Zippo lighter to ignite the fuel as it left the nozzle.

A) In numerous BL books it states that promethium is the source of flamers fuel
B) This is 40k not real world, or Wikipedia
C) I speculate that the flame at the end of the barrel is a failsafe, to guard against anything that might inhibit the flamer fuel catching light in the atmosphere. But its probably just there for show .

I read somewhere that 'Promethium' used in Imperial Flamer Tanks burns even when under water. I presume, due to the lack of air under water, if you wanted to do a bit of wet flaming or some covert SEALS mission with a flamer then you have your little electro light thing to light it under water. However, hole in my theory, how's the little electro thing on fire under water? Maybe it's burning promethium in a small quantity....?

I should have just not bothered posting really, I just provided more questions than answers.....

The OC-D

Flame throwers are ancient tech. Even the Roman legions could field them.
Don't forget the fire the greek used to burn ships down without a chance to take it out for the victim.

But IMO the 40k flamer is a mixture of terror and cleansing.
So 40k promethium has nothing to do with real life promethium.

The flames are used to cleanse:

- burn the remnants of heretics and traitors
- reduce the filthy xenos to ashes

To do so, the fuel is sanctified => holy promethium.

Some of the most prominent users of flamers:

- ordo hereticus
- sisters of battle
- redemptionists
- Salamanders

From the usual flamer to heavy flamers, flame storm cannons, inferno cannon and even titan mounted variants,
all of them keep on burning their target at contact. Should be some sort of liquid as fuel then.

The common models do have some parts that count as igniter and most fluff books also tell about flamers
beeing at the ready by just keeping the igniter flame, so the wielder needs only to pull the trigger and the
burst of flames poures out.


So i am curious where you read of this ignites with air contact.

Seems rather working like wellknown flamer tech.

1hadhq wrote:Flame throwers are ancient tech.

ever since the end of Vietnam War, no further research was put into flamer-throwers, so they may well remain ancient tech compared to modern weapons

I really wonder now what the 40k promethium is based on...
I have read that it burns underwater, but never saw anything about it igniting on contact with air.

It could be that Not all planets have a air atomsphere too, Hense Marines In helmets, and Rebreathers.... Ever think of that... Also how do we know its ingitor it could be a source for suppling O2 to the Fuel??

"Refined" promethium is a component in fuel for most vehicles and flamers.

So, it could be they use something produced in the refining process for it.

There are certainly fuels that burn under water with no additives. Thermite may be the must well known example. Said fuels are also next to impossible to put out which would be a great benefit in battle. The downside is that most do require a high heat source or chemical reaction to ignite. The pilot light could be a backup with the primary ignition source being in the last section of the barrel, maybe a chemical additive that does burn on contact with air and sets off the promethium.

As for the mislabeled name: well, non-chemists tend to be rather imprecise. Coupled with losing a great chunk of knowledge, most of it unnecessary to the common solider, and calling a chemical promethium when it is not the element promethium isn't too far fetched. A lot of people call mercury quicksilver.

Of course, the real reason it is called that is because whoever wrote the original flamer fluff was unlikely to be a chemist, and either didn't know that promethium was an actual element and made it up or picked the name as fitting, because the GW one is clearly a nod to the greek Prometheus, the titan who stole fire from the gods and gifted it to man.

Do they state anywhere whether the fuel source/s is liquid, pressurised gas, low temp gas or solid fuel (yes you can propell a solid fuel as a flame source)? The fuel state as it were will help answer what the 'ignitor' is for.

IIRC there IS a BL book where a fight at a refinery occurs. Don't remember which..

Guns of Tanith.

Too bad the idea of the pilot-light/igniter at the end of the flamer's nozzle is nothing but a cool aspect doesn't work. In the first Soul Drinker's novel, a flamer-wielder fails to use said weapon when the pilot-light at the end goes out. Yeah, in the end, it's to make it act like a normal flamethrower, or so I'd say.

Zio wrote:
I have read that it burns underwater, but never saw anything about it igniting on contact with air.

Space Marine Codex 5th edition, pg 98 wrote:Flamers spew a volatile cloud of liquid chemicals that ignites on contact with the air.

Liquid source, sounds like a suspension in an gas medium...... possibly the 'ignitor' is a air spreader?

I think yes,as you can make one yourself by holding up a lighter and spray primers at it.
Never try it to see if it works,heard of it
It might be dangerous


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the fuel has to go far,so the sprayer is pretty powerful,like in WWII,10 m no prob,but yet there is a in built igniter

Ummm. Did you read the question Tony?

1hadhq wrote:IIRC there IS a BL book where a fight at a refinery occurs. Don't remember which..

Caves of Ice. Yes, they do end up using the promethium as a weapon.

I think "ignites on contact with air" is a continuity error. Promethium is also used to fuel vehicles.

In a ton of novels, when a Promethium gasline is cut open, or even if they're talking about the possibility, the fuel ignites without a spark. So promethium burns in oxygen. This is merely one of the cases of GW trying to make a flamer look like a flamethrower/make it look cool.

There are various organic substances that have a certain explosive and flash point. Give them the right temperature and air mix and they're spontaneously combust. They can also make good flamethrower fuel if there is an external source of ignition. So on strictly physical rules it is possible; highly improbably, I don't think the Imperial is stupid enough to transport promethium in the mixture it happens to be the most explosive.

And the more efficient one of these substances is as fuel, the harder it is the get the darn stuff to spontaneously ignite. So if it can be used in vehicles, used in flamers, and self ignite from gaslines, then it isn't the same substance. Maybe it has different additives for different purposes? Pure stuff being somewhat unstable and liable to self ignite when mixed with air and jolted/impacted/heated somewhat (as smashing open lines tends to do); the fuel in vehicles being a small amount of promethium added to the other substances in fuel to make it better; the promethium in flamers being mostly pure and doped with another chemical to make it more viscous and burn at a higher temperature so it does more damage but making it harder to spontaneously ignite and needing a bit of a push.

mmm where could i find some of this Promethium stuff - then ill build a flamer and let you guys know how it goes

Not all worlds will have the oxygen necessary to ignite the promethium. So, the igniter could be used in just a planet, and the simply standardized it to be on everything.

HOLY CRAP! That question has (Im being serious) has caused me to lose sleep.

I'd go with the idea that the little pilot-light looking thing is actually an oxygen spritzer for low-oxygen environments.

To tell you the true I stop worrying how stuff work on the 40k universe a long time ago. Lasguns, chainswords, plasma tech, meltas, where marines hold extra ammo, all that stuff just doesn't bother me anymore.