Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey folks!

I'm familiarizing myself with Dark Eldar and learning to play them...and I've run into some things I'm not sure how to resolve. Here's a few quotes from the codex.

Asdrubael Vect: If he is used, he counts as the army's Archon, and no other Archon or Archite may be fielded.

Lelith Hesperax: If she is used, she counts as the army's Archite, and no other Archite may be fielded.

Then at the bottom of Lelith's entry it says, "Lelith can only be taken as the leader of a Wych army and can't be included in a normal Dark Eldar army. This can cause problems if all you want is to add Lelith to your 'ordinary' Dark Eldar army. However, if you use the rules for taking several armies as a joint force, then you can take Lelith and a small contingent of as little as two squads of five Wyches each as an 'ally' for a Dark Eldar force.

---------------------------
To me, that sounds like I can take an archon, or Asdrubael (points being met of course), and run a kabal army, while bringing Lelith and two wych squads as allies. Anyone?

The allies rule which is being referenced is the 3rd (and maybe 4th, I forget) edition provision to take a second FOC as an allied army.

Taking two FOC's (essentially, two allied DE armies) is the only way to get two archon level characters into the same force. Each of the allied forces would still need to satisfy their own mandatory unit choices, though. So you could form a force with an archon and two warrior squads in one FOC, and Lelith and two wych squads in the other, for example.

To do this, you would of course need to get your opponent to agree to let you use the two FOC force composition.

Just ignore it. It's a vestigial leftover from 3rd ed.

Gwar! wrote:Just ignore it. It's a vestigial leftover from 3rd ed.

Nay good sir, tis not so. The rules for multiple detachments in a single game allow you to do the same thing, infact, while I don't have my 3rd edition rulebook with me to reference, I believe the rules referenced in the codex are exactly the same thing. Of course, they once again require permission from other players and are only really designed for big games.

Well looking over my dex I interpret that Lelith counts as an archite in all senses. So if you take her, you cannot run an archon (as technically your a wych cult) and all that fun stuff. Thats how I look at it reading it over; hes rules don't specify like witch hunters and GK for allies. Yay for fishy and vague old rules!

this sounds very complex o:

So what are the ally rules? Completely unfamiliar with them.

Dodiez wrote:So what are the ally rules? Completely unfamiliar with them.

The ally rules are what exist in the Witch Hunters Codex or Daemonhunters Codex, there are also rules in the Main rulebook for multiple detachment games (the ones the DE codex references) which is simply a means to field two seperate Force Organisation Charts at once if both players agree to do so.

I Believe the only Allies DE can take are kroot.
If you run a wytch army you cant have alot of units, such as talos, grotestes, Haemolicui.

The way how i Run my DE army at high points, is I take a Dracon and Dralite, it legal, and its give you the Options of both armies( the wytches are still elites in the army but you have low level, Commander), So you can take four wytch squads and you can run Incubi for support.
I know when its get updated, that loop hole will be gone.

Kroot? That's a Tau thing.

Dodiez wrote:Kroot? That's a Tau thing.

It is probably in reference to the old Kroot Mercenaries army list.

kroot mercenaries?

edit bah beaten to it :(

kroot mercenaries along with most everything from chapter approved and every other book except the main codices, if i recal correctly, has been taken out of tournement play.

Sucks hardcore cuz I actually have to field more than mechanized inquisitional stormtroopers as infantry in a game (Tank company was too much damn fun)

After actually digging out my old rulebooks, the rules which are being referenced by Lelith Hesperax's entry in the Dark Eldar codex is page 131 of the 3rd edition rulebook, Very Large Game which are the rules in 3rd edition which covered building a force out of multiple allied armies.

Coincidentally, page 131 in the 5th edition hardcover rulebook is the right side of a two page drawing of Imperial forces. The corresponding equivalent rule to the one referenced in the Dark Eldar codex is Multiple detachment games on page 87. Just like the 3rd edition rule, the 5th edition rule requires agreement on a maximum number of detachments to take from their codex, in addition to the normal agreement on the number of points to use.