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Hi all,

Just starting to play orks after playing Eldar for a long time. I just wanted to know what people advise with regards to special weapons within Ork Boyz squads. Was planning on initially getting 2 squads of 30 boyz each led by a klaw nob, and no special weapons as I assumed they would be heavy and was planning on legging it all the time.

Now I see the missile launcher and big shoota are assault, I have had second thoughts. I have bought all the models and am starting to assemble so need to decide now really. Is it worth sticking a couple of these weapons in large boyz squads in your experience or am I better to save the points?

Also I am concerned about anti tank. I was planning on 3 killa kans with missile launchers, 3 deffkoptas with missile launchers and a load of lootas (as well as a load of klaws ofc). Is this enough in a 1500/2000 point army?, I feel probably not which is why I have considered some missiles in my boyz squads ( my main opposition ussually has lots of armoured targets)

Thanks in advance

In regards to the boys, I like to stick to the general rule that if its sluggas, dont give them any assault weapons to maximise the number of attacks you'll get.

If it's shoota boys, particularly ones that are defending objectives, giving them big shootas is always a good choice.

Killa kans with rokkits and lootas are probably our best way of dealing with tanks from range, otherwise it's just punching their hulls with our beloved powerklaws (which every unit should have atleast one of)

Hey there.

Weaponry really depends on what kind of list you're playing. Head on over to the army list section with your first idea for a list and post it. We'll critique. But I can't really offer you advice on what to do without knowing what kind of list you have.

mikeyboyj wrote:Also I am concerned about anti tank. I was planning on 3 killa kans with missile launchers, 3 deffkoptas with missile launchers and a load of lootas (as well as a load of klaws ofc).

Lootas, kans, and deffkoptas all are pretty good as far as Ork anti-tank goes. But against AV 14 you're pretty much SOL until you get to melee, that's just how Orks roll I'm afraid.

An opposing viewpoint (quite literally!)
I play against Orks alot (actually exclusively so far!) and the scariest thing about slugga boyz is their assault on the charge. Their shooting doesn't scare me at all, no matter what weapon they are shooting. Everytime a mob of slugga boys stops to shoot their big shootas/rokkits at me instead of running I breathe a sigh of relief, cause it means they are not getting closer to me.
I think that slugga/choppa boys should always be running in the shooting phase, so there is no point in weapon upgrades. Save the points for more boys! Leave the shooting to the shoota boys.
Like I said I don't actually play Orks, just against them, but that is my observation on weapon upgrades for da boys.

As an Ork player, I second/third/fourth the advice given so far. Slugga Boys don't need special weapons to be effective, their realm of influence is close combat. Although Big Shootas and Rokkits are Assault weapons, for Slugga Boyz they might as well be Heavy, since they will almost always want to Run in the shooting phase, anyway.

Personally, I keep my Slugga squads small and in Trukks, but since you're just starting out, no one will expect you to spam transports like it's going out of style.

I suggest you next get a third 30-man Mob with Shootas and put your Big Shootas in there, and use this mob to either camp on objectives or slowly advance across the board while sending out torrents of bullets. If you bought your Boyz in actual box sets, you should have the Shoota arms already, so just go on eBay, buy a bunch of Black Reach Boyz for dirt cheap, then cut the extraneous arms off and add Shootas. Now you're getting close to the triple digits in infantry, which is the goal of any Green Tide-style force.

I find the size of the board sometimes changes the layout of the golden rule. Accidently slipped a Big shoota in a group of boyz I'd kept hidden for a 'second wave' experiment I was pulling, and lets just say shooting out a door and sniping enough units to make that critical squad free then next turn using the same squad to slice open a group of death company.... well it makes me giggle.

Revisiting this thread...

OP: I'm going to copy something I wrote elsewhere here for you to read generalized ork advice. Also, your best strategy in terms of weapons (which really relates to the kind of list you're going to build) is to build your list and go post it int he army list section. With that...read on.



I'm going to work off of a couple of assumptions.
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1. Playing Warhammer 40k is fun.
2. Playing Warhammer 40k and winning is more fun.
3. Playing Warhammer 40k and losing is less fun.
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Human nature and natural selection demand that we continually seek to improve ourselves. Having an A type personality probably doesn't hurt this effort, but if you lose a game of 40k and don't reflect on the game with, "What did I do wrong? What could I have done better? How can I prevent this from happening again?" then I can't really talk to you.

If this thought process and those three assumptions *do* apply to you, then read on.

******
Orks are a unique codex. An ork boy is significantly cheaper than just about any other model in 40k, and is basically a platform from which many things spring (other kinds of ork variants - stormboyz, lootas, nobs...). If you read the fluff, every ork starts in the same place, and as they develop, they lean towards on klan/society, which is how they figure out what kind of ork they're going to be.

In other codexes (space marines and their variants being the most prolific), basic troops are well-rounded models. You ever play Final Fight? How about ANY kind of game with character selections? You've got the big, strong guy that's slow...the average Joe....and the weaker but very speedy character. This applies in 40k as well. Space marines are like your average, well-rounded Joe. Orks are NOT. You can't mix and match orks in any order you like to make a generalized list.

This is *not* called power building, its called understanding your codex, how your codex is designed, and using it as such. Every time someone calls "playing a theme" to be "powerbuilding" I want to stab them in the F***** eye. If you look in the Ork codex, do you see the codex writers putting in pictures for the sample armies of some Lootas backing up a squad of meganobs in a trukk, who are advancing next to some buggies and a deffkopta or two?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They even TELL you how to make your army. They tell you what the Ork klans are - Bad Moons, Kult of Speed, Deffskullz, etc.

That kind of thematic army construction is the intent of the Ork codex. That is what makes orks powerful. The ork codex is written so that you can design an army list that is absolutely ridiculously powerful, but it is NOT made up of average Joe units; everything is specialized towards a specific goal. When you build an army list, you should follow the thematic advice given to you in the Codex. PICK a theme. There's a lot of them:

Green Tide. Mechanized Assault. Mechanized Shooting. Ork Gunline (Moar Dakka), Kan-Wall. Dreadz of Fury. Kult of Speed. Outflanking Goodness. Rebel Grotz. Nob Bikers. Super Units. Orky Burnas.

All of those things have something in common - the lists were designed with a theme in mind, and have the synergy to work together towards that goal. When you start combining those themes to make a list, you're being counterintuitive to the very style that the orks were created for.

Remember this: Orks can do anything that any other army can do, and they can do it better than that army. However, orks can only do it one at a time. You can outshoot a Tau Gunline. You can out-assault a khorne army or an army of genestealers. You can put down more templates than IG....whatever your goal in mind is....orks can do it better, but it has to stick to that theme. Orks are not meant to be universal, middle-of-the-line armies.

To give another analogy...if you've ever played an MMO, there are different classes. Fighter, Tank, barbarian, mage, cleric, wizard, hunter, ranger, red mage, death knight, rogue, whatever.....its all based on the game you play. The class you pick sets you on a path for the kind of game you play, the skills you get - they are pre-defined roles.

40k armies fit into that kind of typification. Except for Orks. Orks would be the generic class. You start with a neutral character, with skillpoints to assign, and you can make orks any kind of army you want them to be. People fail with orks because they want some of everything. Instead of making them a fighter, or an archer, or a guardian...and they would be better fighters, archers and guardians than every other type...they split points between all three to make a Figardian. F.A.G for short.

Do you want to excel in something, or be a F.A.G? That's what it boils down to.

Are you a F.A.G?




*EDIT* I'm adding information for the tactics article I'm working on.

If you're running a foot-slogging list, shoota boys are your friend. Slugga boys belong inside vehicles. In fact, I think you should convert your slugga boy mobs into shoota boys. In 5th edition, the shoota boy is the most efficient point purchase across all 40k.

Think on that - for 6 points...SIX POINTS....you get an infantry model with an assault 2 STR4 gun, who is WS4, STR4, T4 on the charge. In terms of math hammer between shoota and slugga boys, it's pretty simple. Slugga boys have +1 attack in close combat, and shoota boys have +1 attack outside of close combat. Since your Orks on the assault are only I3, you're going to strike last meaning that 30 boyz are going to take some casualties before getting their attacks back.

On the flip side, shoota boys get 2 shots before assaulting, and the enemy doesn't get to shoot back first and cause casualties - putting in any kind of hurt before you assault is incredibly valuable. And since it has an 18" range, you can shoot into a unit even when you don't have range to assault this turn. My advice for green tide:

Take all your troops choices as shoota boys. Consider taking a squad of gretchin - you can spread them across your front lines to provide 4+ cover saves for your whole army. Alternatively, you can take a squad of ork boyz to do the same. If you make them 'Ard Boyz they gain considerably in staying power.

Want to get real freaky? Take a squad of 'Ard Boyz, stick Mad Dok Grotsnik with them for a 4+/4+. Spread that unit out 2+ coherence to minimize the damage that blast templates can do, and have the whole thing move+run in front of your army. Your screening unit has 4+ armor saves, 4+ feel no pain, and the rest of your army has 4+ cover saves now. If your points allow it, what really tops off the list is adding some fast attack Stormboyz. You can put them into close combat, or have them multi-assault to shake/stun some tanks/artillery, have them get in fast and tie up enemy units (hello Tau!), or if the situation doesn't call for it, you can leave them behind your screening unit and keep them in reserve to get in where you need supporting assault units at.


Here's a quick take on those various lists. Please remember something important: Every list needs to be tailored for point allocations. What I'm putting down here is an "optimized" list where you get the maximum ability from it, so if you're playing a 1,000 point gunline, three full squads of Lootas + supporting units and troop choices isn't really what you're going to play. You'll have to tweak to match your needs.

Green Tide:
Green tide is actually an apocalypse battle formation, but is a common name for a foot-slogging ork army list. It consists of mobs of 30 shoota boys, a nob with a powerklaw, and either a unit of gretchin or a unit of boyz or 'Ard Boyz (maybe even with Mad Dok) screened across the front to give the rest of the army a 4+ cover save as they advance up the board.

Mechanized Assault:
12 slugga boyz+Nob/PK stacked into trukks, perhaps some battlewagons in the mix, covered by a Big Mek with a KFF...an elite unit or two (kommandos, lootas, burnas) tacked into the mix depending on your personal playstyle - they get into close combat as fast as orkishly possible; with Ghazghkull leading the mix, that's usually turn2.

Mechanized Shooting:
Instead of slugga boys, you have shoota boys, preferably in battlewagons, with a KFF screening them, rolling around the battlefield pouring firepower into enemy units. Alternatively, (and one of my favorite setups) this is 3 Loota squads inside battlewagons sitting on the back table edge, Big mek with KFF in the middle one in a trident formation \|/ to present front armor across the battlefield, surrounded by a unit of gretchin to prevent assaults on rear armor.


Ork Gunline:
Three squads of Lootas form the backbone of this, either sitting in cover or with a screening unit to give them a 4+ cover save, heavy support of big guns or some dreads/kans to provide long range firepower, with the obligatory shoota boy squads.


Kan wall:
One of the current meta-game favorites: Three squads of three killa-kans, protected by a KFF mek (or two) marching up the field screening mobs of shoota boys behind them.


Dreadz of Fury:
Three DeffDreads for Heavy Support + 2 Deff Dreads for troop choices, with a KFF mek screening them for a 4+ cover save, set for either long ranged fire support or close ranged pwnage; I prefer the STR10 DCCWs.


Kult of Speed:
Straight out of your codex! Boyz in trukks, mechanized element + Stormboyz. Ponder this for a moment: 6 trukks full of boyz screened by a Mek with a KFF, in turn screening 3 units of Stormboyz who can move as fast as the trukks moving flat out...that's a lot of fast moving destruction.

Outflanking Goodness:
Kommandos as elites and Deffkoptas as fast attack, as many of each as you can fit in, often with Deffkoptas equipped differently for wound allocation spread outflanking (unless you get turn1 and put your deffkoptas out for a turn1 turbo-boost).


Rebel Grotz:
Instead of six units of boyz, you get.....gretchin! Bwah ha ha. Not particularly scary in themselves, but using covering units or terrain, able to go to ground for a 3+ cover save, making them incredibly difficult to remove from an objective, especially with other gretchin (inside killa-kans) are krumping around the battlefield.

Nob Bikers:
Two warbosses + 20 nobs = 2HQ + 2Troops. 22 models = 1750. Diversified wargear and weaponry let you spread wounds around instead of removing models, and the unit is incredibly tough, has the ability to get anywhere fast, and kill anything fast.

Super Units:
Similar to Nob bikers in having an army with a low model count: Warboss Krumpmaster and the Megaboyz; a couple units of Meganobs, or my personal preference, units of regular nobs with diversified wargear for wound allocation magic - in vehicles!


Orky Burnas:
Start with three units of burna boys. Put them in battlewagons if you like. Mek with a KFF to screen if you do, and you have an army of combination templates / power weapons. Alternatively, a warboss makes nobs a troops choice, and you can give them all kombi-skorchas for some real carnage.


Battlewagon Spam:
Did you know that you can field 8 Battlewagons in a single army list? That's right...eight battlewagons. Three Heavy Support, Three dedicated transports for elite unit nobs, and two warbosses making two units of nobs troop choices so that you can take two more battlewagons. I think any time you have vehicles, you should have a KFF floating around, so I wouldn't advocate going for 8....but you can do a lot of things with a list of Battlewagons.

Dash: That tactics stuff is coming along great, Keep it up!

OP: the main thing for starting an ork army is: Pick a theme. Any of the above listed should do well. once you have picked a theme, then start asking "shoota or slugga?" for now i would advise leaving the arms off your orks till you know where you are headed with the theme. Be sure to post your themed list in the army list section so we can help you out as best we can before you start spending money on thing that wont work well with your theme. Good luck and welcome to the orks!

~Kaltak

Personally I like grotzookas (in a mob of 3 kanz you get 6 blast templates a turn!) to use as area denial (no-one wants to come in range of that many templates!)/infantry killing. However try to take a mix of weapons, but not within squads (e.g. these kanz have grotzookas and kill infantry, these kanz have rokkits/KMB and kill tanks etc) as even at BS3 you're still gonna miss a lot.

Also a meganob in vehicle is a good anti-tank weapon (arm with kombi rokkits, drive up, fire rockets, if that doesnt kill it, assault it) but can become a bit of a point-sink at large unit sizes, chuck a mega-boss in there for some extra killyness.

Shootas are pretty effective, IMO I like to put a wierdboy in there for s##ts and giggles as they prevent him getting sniped, I normally squat them on a mid-field objective and let loose the thunder. Burnas in a trukk or wagon is also a very nice tactic, nothing like a vehicle with that many templates to brighten your opponents day
Oh and to the OP, please please PLEASE stop calling them MISSILE launchers, they are ROKKIT launchas (cos they ROKK!) if you call them MISSile launchers they will do exactly as told (MISS).

And don't forget to show us some pics of your army if you get the chance (in appropriate forum of course).

For a foot sloggin list i can give you some advice i you are facing tank spam.

last night i totally smashed a IG tank company. its a alternate codex put out by Forge world(i think) that lets you take Lemun Russ's as troops. there were 9 lemun russ, 3 chimeras, a hydra flak tank and 2 squads of guardsman.

I ran 4 full squads of boys, 3 sluggas and 1 shoota, a min sized squad of gretchin, Meganobs and warboss with PK in a trukk, and a mek with KFF in a Battlewagon.

my boys got decimated by battlecannons(only 2 mobs of 5 or 6 boyz made it to CC) but the mega nobs and warboss got to the tank line. the battle wagon took out a chimera and immobilized a russ, but the warboss and mega nobs killed all the rest of the tanks. they moved full speed to the gunline were naturally immobilized and then got out and killed every tank on the map.

my point is a foot sloggin list with a few transports with a hardhitting element inside(nobs, tankbustas) can wreck just about any thing. I disagree over the shoota vs slugga argument before, but each to his own.

The main thing is have fun. da boyz alwayz wins, cus wez da orks and dey iz not. now git out der and git crumping.

Thanks all, some useful points I have taken on board.

I hadn't planned to specialise as suggested but can see the logic in it. The main thing that drew me to the orks is Nobz, Mega Nobz and bikes. So my plan was 10 nobz in a truck, 10 meganobz in a BW and 18 Bikes, with a boss on bike and gazgul. Then I thought I would supplement this with (points allowing) a massive squad of boyz or 2, 3 killa kans and a big squad of lootas.

But then I like to have other options to allow me to mix things up now and again for the element of surprise, so sometimes kommandoes or sometimes a deff dread. I realise this may not give me the best chance of winning but I would very soon get bored doing the same army list with the same tactic over and over, even if I did always win.

With regards to the shoota boyz the comments have made me rethink. I have enough parts to make 60 boys atm so maybe I will make 30 of each to start out and see how I go

If you want to play more friendly style games, throw in EVERYTHING you want and have fun with it. Orks are random and if you aren't trying to play for competitions then embrace the randomness!!! Weirdboyz/Zogwort are a blast and so is the SAG. They might kill some of your guys, then might wipe the floor with your enemy. This is a game after all, if you are not going to be happy with 1 ork list, keep switching it up and enjoy!