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Hi All,

After much tweeking and play-testing, including the 40k doubles tournament at Nottingham a couple of weeks ago. I've finalised my 750 Ork list.

However, I would appreciate comments, especially any thoughts on what forces I might come unstuck against.

Thanks,

Taloncab


11 shoota boys (TROOP)
Nob w/PK
Trukk
Sub-total = 142

11 shoota boys (TROOP)
Nob w/PK
Trukk
Sub total = 142

17 choppa boys (TROOP)
Nob w/PK
Big Mek w/ PK & KFF (HQ)
in Battlewagon with RPJ/Boarding planks/Big Shoota/Killkannon (HEAVY SUPP)
Sub total = 418

1 Deffcopta w/rokkit (FAST ATT)
Sub total = 45

TOTAL = 747

The idea is that the Battlewagon is deployed with the trukks flanking it so you can only hit its front armour and all will be in KFF bubble. So if you target the trukks they'll get the 4 up save and if they get popped the boys inside have shootas to give them more range. Trying to pop the BW will need a good hit with a heavy weapon (This will be a one in 18 chance even with a marine firing a lascannon).

The deffkopta will try to pop an enemy transport early doors so the killkannon can get to work on the guys inside. Advance and crush the enemy. I know the Killkannon is expensive and short range. But I wiped out whole squads of longfangs/assault marines/aspect warriors with this beauty so I think it's worth it. I did have boarding planks and red paint on all of the vehicles, but they're so rarely used I've just opted for these on the BW, as I can then choose to leave my big mek in there and assault vehicles with his PK and the boarding planks.

Just pondering aloud, bearing in mind I don't know much about Orks, how many models of those big three units would you have to whittle down in order to afford a second Deffkopta?

I saw in the tournament that you and I were in that the killkannon was indeed devastating, so the idea of using it ASAP after the Deffkopta cracks something open is a good one... So maybe it'd be better to make this even more likely?

Of course, if you have to lose too many models to get a second Deffkopta then it's not a good idea, but if it's not many... I don't know, Orks are pretty devastating in combat, could 12 do nearly the job that 17 could, for example?

Very good but change one shoota boy unit to a slugga boy unit.

I'd have to drop 6 boys, the red paint and boarding plank to get another deffcopta, and I'm just not sure that this wouldn't leave the boys a little weak.

The use of that larger squad of 17 is to take down big beasts like tyranids or daemon princes that I need to get a couple of rounds hitting done with my nob w/PK. Otherwise, if I lose combat first round if he reduces me to less than 11 boys I'm taking leadership tests.

I might give the extra deffcopta a try though. But unsure

Those Shoota boys should be Slugga boys. You can't shoot effectively inside a vehicle.

The Killikan weapon upgrade means that the Battlewagon only has a transport capacity of 12 models. Those 17 boys are going to be on foot every game.

Good point on the Killkannon/capacity issue. I'd forgotten about that! (had 12 guys in there before). Guess it's an extra Deffkopta then!

Why can't my shoota boys fire effectively in the BW? It's opentopped and shootas are assault weapons.

Many thanks for you points

Remember orks BS is 2 so any sort of wepon other than a cc one will be pretty much useless, unless piloted by grots, so drop the shoota boyz for sluggas, and if you expect the killkannon to actually hit any one, i would drop it and add more boys to ur squads and it should also give you enough points for a second deffcopta, although on my personal experience i would prefer lootas over deffcoptas and the coptas BS is 2 as well, and you only get 2 chances to hit with a TL Rokkit launcha, i would suggest to change them to lootas at least then you have got a 48" range and up to 3 shots per member of the squad = 6-18 shots each, s 7 ap 4, for 2 reasons, the 6-18 shots give more of a chance to hit with a BS of 2 and 2. although the strength isnt as high as a rokkit launcha it shill has the ability to kill tanks on a 3-6 + but your ability to kill land raiders is diminished, and now, get rid of the Bolt on big shoota and lower the points of ur Battle wagon as much as possible cuz its gonna go quickly, i suggest drop the BattleWaggon all together and get another squad of boyz with a truck and replace your Battlewagon with a truck, thereby allowing for a fast attack down the middle while ur loots/deffcoptas flank from the sides and provide cover for ur trucks when you try to move from enemy squad to enemy squad

I've only ever played Marines (SW and CSM) before I started playing with Orks, and I have to say I love shooting with them. As ineffective as they are, they're still firing STR 4 AP 5 shots at Assault 2.

My shoota boyz miss a lot, but I love taking them, just for the sheer number of dice I get to roll

My shoota boyz miss a lot, but I love taking them, just for the sheer number of dice I get to roll



Yeahh but slugga boyz can get up to 3 cc swings with the enemy armoursave being a 4+ at best

And if using a nob with a PK your initiative is a 2 when using Power of the waaaaaagh and so when vs. another squad with a Heavy Power Wepon you will strike first with 4cc attacks with s10 hits before they get their 2-3 st10 hits

cr3470r wrote:And if using a nob with a PK your initiative is a 2 when using Power of the waaaaaagh and so when vs. another squad with a Heavy Power Wepon you will strike first with 4cc attacks with s10 hits before they get their 2-3 st10 hits

Furious Charge gives an Init bonus to PK attacks? o.o I assumed the PK of Init 1 was an always, regardless of modifiers.

BishopGore wrote:

cr3470r wrote:And if using a nob with a PK your initiative is a 2 when using Power of the waaaaaagh and so when vs. another squad with a Heavy Power Wepon you will strike first with 4cc attacks with s10 hits before they get their 2-3 st10 hits

Furious Charge gives an Init bonus to PK attacks? o.o I assumed the PK of Init 1 was an always, regardless of modifiers.

He's wrong, you're right.

Also, PK nobs are strength nine on the charge. Never ten.

Taloncab wrote:Why can't my shoota boys fire effectively in the BW? It's opentopped and shootas are assault weapons.

Many thanks for you points

They're ineffective because you can only shoot from inside the BW when it moves 6" or less. The whole point of a transport is to get yourself as close to the opponent as soon as possible, and limiting yourself to 6" or less each turn seems like a waste. I mean sure, you can move 12" then get them out, but to me that seems no different to just having them walk. Making them Shoota boys also puts you in a conundrum when you waaaaagh: do you fleet and get your Nob w/PK into assault, or shoot with the rest of the unit and risk not being in assault range.

All in all, Slugga boys just seem to make more sense here.

thx for clearing that up guys

but you still get the 4 attacks right?

unbeliever87 wrote:

Taloncab wrote:Why can't my shoota boys fire effectively in the BW? It's opentopped and shootas are assault weapons.

Many thanks for you points

They're ineffective because you can only shoot from inside the BW when it moves 6" or less. The whole point of a transport is to get yourself as close to the opponent as soon as possible, and limiting yourself to 6" or less each turn seems like a waste. I mean sure, you can move 12" then get them out, but to me that seems no different to just having them walk. Making them Shoota boys also puts you in a conundrum when you waaaaagh: do you fleet and get your Nob w/PK into assault, or shoot with the rest of the unit and risk not being in assault range.

All in all, Slugga boys just seem to make more sense here.

I think you are missing the Killkannon upgrade on the Wagon. With this in place, I think it's rarely going to move more than 6" a turn, so shootas are just fine (and, probably are just fine in Wagon's in general). The Trukk boyz should definitely be slugga/choppa tho...

Wow lots of debate here. Many thanks to all of you.

I know that the BW is expensive, but keeping the big mek with the KFF alive is essential and the Arm14 on the front combined with the KFF makes it very hard to kill. I generally move the BW 13 first turn and the trukks a little further (but keep in range of the KFF). You wouldn't believe how effective the BW with killkannon is later on in the game once all the boys are in the thick of it.

Def going to swap the shoota boys for slugga boys in the Trukks tho. Makes sense as they'll likely be in there for longer.

I'm hesitant to take lootas at 750 points - would need 13-15 of them for them to be worth the points - otherwise they just get shot down by 25% and run away. At 1000 points maybe but not 750. Think I'll opt for the 2x deffkoptas or what about the following:

2 Trukks with 11 boys and a nob w/PK (284points)

1 Battlewagon (Killkannon/Red paint/boarding plank)
Holding 10 boys (one of them nob w/PK, one with big shoota)
1 Big Mek with KFF and PK
1 Cybork Warboss with PK
(465 points)

Imagine that - a battlewagon with three PKs in it!

What do we think?

Basicly my argument is that althought they havn't got the best armour save, there is (1) more modles, (2) longer range and (3) will be more verstile when you verse other players. i have found when i play that my deffcoptas die very quickly they have not got a good enough armor save to warrent their cost, secondly the idea of a BW with 3 PK's in it is silly as it will be the target of all your enemies fire, which will end up in your troops being shot at and killed quickly. the idea of you limiting the movement of your truck to that of a battlewagon so they stay within the reach of your KFF is ludicrous take 2 truks run them the 18 or so inches and you will remain in the the KFF anyway as what makes them worth while is the speed at which they can get into battle, reconcider and drop the BW and have two trucks and you will also have 20+ extra points to spend on models, as for the killkannon a few friends of mine have used them, and have found them a point waster as they do not have the range to back them up for their cost. and remember lootas have a lot of benefits when it comes to overcoming that BS 2, and having 2 squads of 5+ lootas is worth it compared to 2 deffcoptas as 2 squads at opposite sides of the table will have your enemies splitting their forces to kill them both, allowing for 4 truks to split and demolish them hopefully stopping them before they reach the lootas and drawing their fire.

And if your worried about usefulness after the unloading of the troops, give the truck a ram, 18" moves with a ram a devastating especially with a hord of 11 boys with a PK are funning at you because your fire is drawn to the tank

@New list: 2 HQs at 750 sounds like it might be a bit much :S

number9dream wrote:
I think you are missing the Killkannon upgrade on the Wagon. With this in place, I think it's rarely going to move more than 6" a turn, so shootas are just fine (and, probably are just fine in Wagon's in general).

You're right. I didn't take the Killkannon into account, despite commenting on it earlier it's seen so rarely seen around here.

I agree that 2 HQ choices is a bit excessive, though they both seem pretty good choices. The Warboss is awesome in CC but the Mek gives you that lovely 4+ cover. I would be tempted to drop the Mek and replace the 10 boys with a semi-complex unit of Nobs.

My opinion on the lootas is this: waste of points.

I've played against them before, my method of dealing with them was to utterly ignore them... They just seem very, very poor.

Personally, I like your new list Makes sense.

Tantras wrote:My opinion on the lootas is this: waste of points.

I've played against them before, my method of dealing with them was to utterly ignore them... They just seem very, very poor.

Ehh, I'm guessing he didn't have them in sufficient numbers or just had a bad dice day - they are generally considered to be among the best (or perhaps even THE best) units of the Ork codex. I mean, 15 of them are going to average 30 S7 hits a turn, with about 10 hitting. At 48" range, that's about as good as Ork shooting gets, hell it's about as good as shooting gets in general, really one of the best ways to deal with light mech for Orks.

number9dream wrote:

Tantras wrote:My opinion on the lootas is this: waste of points.

I've played against them before, my method of dealing with them was to utterly ignore them... They just seem very, very poor.

Ehh, I'm guessing he didn't have them in sufficient numbers or just had a bad dice day - they are generally considered to be among the best (or perhaps even THE best) units of the Ork codex. I mean, 15 of them are going to average 30 S7 hits a turn, with about 10 hitting. At 48" range, that's about as good as Ork shooting gets, hell it's about as good as shooting gets in general, really one of the best ways to deal with light mech for Orks.

It was a low-points game (my opponent was the OP, oddly enough) so I think he had five, possibly six, in the unit. I was playing Necrons and everything the lootas did seemed to bounce of my armour ineffectually. I literally did ignore them. Maybe they're better in bigger games, but I can only speak about what I've seen first hand.

I actually haven't played them personally, but basically every good player I've seen post about them, like them.

I think the reason they performed badly is probably the small squad size, they need to be a bit bigger. I'm not that familiar with Necrons either (infact, I know almost nothing about them ), but they don't really have any vehicles right? So perhaps Lootas are not the best vs them.

Necrons just have the one vehicle, and it's 14/14/14 so Lootas would no good, no.

Sorry we de-railed your thread a little, Taloncab!

Back to your army - I like it, I think it would be very uncomfortable for me to face with either Necrons or CSM... I don't like the look of all those PKs!

Incidentally, does the KFF only protect against shooting?

I would say keep the list as it is in the first post, but swap out the boyz in the BW for burnas, nothing more unfriendly than a front armour 14(i think) tank that can spit god knows how many flamer templates out of it, and then if you are out of assault range can disembark next turn and assault with power weapons!.

Although then you do lose a objective-holder...

The thing is, Burnas are no good in a Killkannon wagon. The Killkannon wants to sit at 24" and lob pie plates at the enemy, the burnas want to drive right up in their face and make people do the burny dance.

Hmm. I know that the two HQ looks a bit much at 750, but it would still only be 175 on HQ - not unusual.

I've pretty much opted against the deffkoptas - as I feel they're too expensive for what really is just a nuisance that will be killed pretty quickly.

I know the Battlewagon is all eggs in one basket (and I may indeed sacrifice the Killkannon eventually just because the range is poor for the points) but you can't beat it for a rock solid basket! Ar14 with a 4+ to negate any glance or penetrate regardless means that even a lascannon will struggle (1 in 9 chance to glance, or 1 in 18 to pen to be precise). It soaks up firepower. Surely there's no safer place to be!

Will consider lootas if I can get their numbers up. And could possibly opt for 5 burnas instead of the boys in the BW but need to think about this.

Thanks guys, putting this list down has been a great way to pre-playtest the force!

PS - yes KFF gives vehicles 4+ save and troops 5+ (both friend and foe!), but doesn't help in combat. However, I can always leave the big mek in the BW when the boys depart and leave the mek assauting vehicles with the boarding plank while still providing the 4+ save to the BW so it can keep alive and drop more pies around the place


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS - even at the doubles tourney the BW was atracting most of the opposition firepower and it stood up against it - so if it can take a competitive 1500 points of barrage then I dare say it will measure up to 750 worth of firepower.

I'll definately drop an update on how the battles go over the weekend with this force. Just to let you guys know. I'll test a few variants too. Playing against marines, eldar and tyranids I think.

TAL

Tantras wrote:Necrons just have the one vehicle, and it's 14/14/14 so Lootas would no good, no.

Sorry we de-railed your thread a little, Taloncab!

Back to your army - I like it, I think it would be very uncomfortable for me to face with either Necrons or CSM... I don't like the look of all those PKs!

Incidentally, does the KFF only protect against shooting?

Lootas should be targeting your Destroyers and other high-toughness units, and they should be doing it in units of 15.

The KFF gives a 5+ cover save to all units with one or more models in range, and all vehicles within 6" count as obscured.

I've pretty much opted against the deffkoptas - as I feel they're too expensive for what really is just a nuisance that will be killed pretty quickly.

I think this makes sense - someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Buzzsaw/rokkit deff kopta config is probably more important in bigger games, where you need to silence parts of the enemy gunline FAST.

At a lower points game, it's a pretty big chunk of your army and you probably won't face nearly as many "big guns".

One last variation which might satisfy

HQ
Warboss = 60
PK
Shoota Skorcha
BP

=95

Big Mek = 35
Burna
KFF
BP

= 110

HQ Total = 205

Troops

11 x Boyz
Trukk
Ram
(Warboss)

11 x Boyz
Trukk
Ram
(Big Mek)

11 x Boyz
Nob
BP
Trukk
Ram

11 x Boyz
Nob
BP
Trukk
Ram

Troops Total = 454

10 x lootas = 150

Grand Total = 749