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OK, I am in a constant discussion with my partner concerning what we make our bits out of, Pewter or Resin?

Pewter..

The pros of Pewter are simple, cost and mold life. Pewter is not labor intensive and the molds last near forever. That translates into cheaper cost to produce and less cost for the customers (my goal). There is some argument on whether pewter loses detail to resin, though I am not sold on that part completely, I see it some.

Pewter is heavier, and many hobbyist dislike it for its toughness (hard to cut).

I like it for small bits like heads and shoulder pads, larger pieces like Vehicle armor and kits I will likely never use it.

Resin...

Its not model plastic, but its not pewter either. It doesnt work with plastic cement, shame.. some say the detail in resin molds is much better then pewter (Ive yet to see proof on this). It is lighter and easier to work with, easy to cut. I think it is too delicate vs pewter for those thin sharp pieces (why I dont think we will do Ymargl Stealer heads in resin, too many tentacles).

Resin is labor intensive to cast, its cost is higher because of this. Plus resin molds have a very limited life vs pewter (30-60 pulls vs 1000s). That means more cost to labor to cast and molds. That equals about a 15-25% increase in cost for the customer.

Example:
Resin Shields - $2.50 each Pewter Shields - $2.00 each
Resin Heads set of 5 - $6.50 per set Pewter Heads set of 5 -$5.00 per set

So I ask you, the hobbyist, what would you buy (not just what you like better). If there was an item that you liked and it was available in both materials, pick a material.. This will affect Chapterhouse Studios choice in casting materials in the future.

Nick
Chapterhousestudios.com

Pewter! Its cheaper and you don't have to wash or prep it.

I'd prefer metal myself. Bit nervous of Resin as a modeller, and I suspect I may not be alone there, whereas pretty much every modeller and gamer will be well versed in using Metal bits!

Though I suppose it depends on what it is. Heads should be fine in metal, but shields, purely from a weighting stand point, might be better received in Resin, as they wouldn't unbalance your models.

I can see that M.D.G on the shields, we do them in pewter at the moment, mostly because they are larger and most folks use them on terminators (big bases, no fall).

Metal. Resin can also be difficult to model and is toxic when inhaled. What about using a higher lead content to achieve greater detail.

That's true. Bit of a Fantasy nut myself, so I forget Shields also crop up in 40k!

How feasible might it be to offer both in some cases, even if it's just as a trial? Particularly not-entirely-generic-tentacle-mawed-alien-heads. Metal ones do risk unbalancing your model. Though I suppose if sold on a sprue (resources allowing!) you could ensure that the sprue has enough weight to it that when sliced up, can be used to counter the heads weight under the base? Hope that makes sense.

Resin = Evil.

George Spiggott wrote:Metal. Resin can also be difficult to model and is toxic when inhaled. What about using a higher lead content to achieve greater detail.

I have to admit have never heard of that, ill ask my caster if that is a possibility.

George Spiggott wrote:Metal. Resin can also be difficult to model and is toxic when inhaled. What about using a higher lead content to achieve greater detail.

Are you allowed to put Lead in these things nowadays? I know the threat of an EU ruling against it prompted GW's move to White Metal (a bit of legislation which didn't go thorough that time) but I kind of lost track after that. Certainly GW don't use it so they can get a Child Safety Certificate thingy?

GW moved to white metal a long, long time ago. I was under the impression that it was done to avoid getting sued.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Are you allowed to put Lead in these things nowadays? I know the threat of an EU ruling against it prompted GW's move to White Metal (a bit of legislation which didn't go thorough that time) but I kind of lost track after that. Certainly GW don't use it so they can get a Child Safety Certificate thingy?

No legislation was ever put through. Rackham used to use more lead than other manufacturers and Reaper (iirc) recently had an alternative metal with a higher lead content that was cheaper (iirc) than their normal metal.

Obviously high lead metal is not better for all purposes being heavier and softer, but it holds more detail, is cheaper, melts at a lower temperature and is easier to work with.

I think it was pre-empting. As I mentioned above, I'm fairly sure there was the intention in the EU to outlaw Lead Alloys for models and stuff that can be used by children, and GW decided to make the leap before they were forced. Whether it ever came into force I have absolutely no idea.

But then as long as they aren't billing them as Toys, and carry a suitable disclaimer on the Website (and probably the packaging) I reckon all would be good.

All my old WD's talked about the lead and how the products weren't suitable for people under the age of 14. Given GW's target market is the 8-12 year old demographic, you can hardly have models that carry a 14+ warning - so losing the lead made sense.

Plus it was a pretty good excuse for a cross-the-board price increase (even plastics, which contain no white metal (that I'm aware of) went up!!!).

First white metal models I ever got were the old metal Hormagaunts. They went from 3 per blister to 2 for the same price. I'll never forget that.

@ Mad Doc Grotsnik: Certainly no more warning that resin or white metal would require barring the phrase 'contains lead'. Lead poisoning from handling lead miniatures is not a likely occurrence.

I assume they already have a 'small parts/not a toy/do not put in mouth/may contain nuts' disclaimer for their white metal.

Indeedy. I cleared up quite nicely that year. Local store was flogging off the old Lead models cheap, so I got 4 Dreadnoughts for my Birthday, which was nice.

As for the metal Hormogaunts, I was simply never that masochistic

But yeah, Chapterhouse. As to my suggestion of trying certain products in both Resin and Metal, I reckon if you're upfront that it's an experiment in demand, you can get away with a single price. The obvious bonus here is that you get a genuine idea of which is preferred, as the differing price doesn't come into it.

George Spiggott wrote:@ Mad Doc Grotsnik: Certainly no more warning that resin or white metal would require barring the phrase 'contains lead'. Lead poisoning from handling lead miniatures is not a likely occurrence.

I assume they already have a 'small parts/not a toy/do not put in mouth/may contain nuts' disclaimer for their white metal.

When they contained lead the miniatures had a "not for under 14s" instruction on them, now it's "not for children under 36 months". I don't know what restrictions other countries have, but the change to white metal was undoubtedly in part to sell to a younger market.

Lead alloys are easier to cast with, I recall spotting quite a few miscasts after they removed the lead, a sure sign they were still getting to grips with the ideal temperatures and mixes.

For vehicle conversions I would prefer resin, it usually has a smoother finish like plastic and is light which is good for large parts, especially turrets.

Is plastic out of the question? A small (one that fits in a garage) injection mold machine runs about $4000 and the molds last forever.

I think you need a poll on this one if you dont mind my suggesting.
I think resin is good for certain things like howard said vehicle conversion but everything else i think metal works just as well. The plus side is when people make orders they may well not mind getting more stuff therefore more profit for you. I know when i make forgeworld oreders i tend to stray away from getting too much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pay no attention to my first comment i am blinder than a 4year old walking into a strip bar.

Howard A Treesong wrote:For vehicle conversions I would prefer resin, it usually has a smoother finish like plastic and is light which is good for large parts, especially turrets.

This is true, over a certain size metal becomes impractical.

I vote for pewter, all the way. Resin is nice for some things, but for general purpose stuff, I'd rather have it in pewter, especially if it's going to be less expensive. In my opinion, any loss in detail with pewter compared to resin wouldn't be enough to keep me from buying a miniature that I liked, especially if the cost was lower.

Yeah Nick and myself are currently debating quite intensive weather to go metal or resin.
Metal seems to be the majority choice so far but the thread is far to young to point towards anything.

Personally I like resin over metal for the conversion and gluing (super glue like GWs standard) since glue dont go well with metal but work wonders on resin.
The weight is also an issue, when I drag my 300-ish model army bag somewhere I really do not want it to weigh like a king sized barbell due to 300 metal pieces being spread all over the minis.

But the foremost objection to metal that I have is quality, compared to resin I can clearly say the detail loss is significantly less pronounced in resin casts and I am an advocate of quality.
Granted, this also comes with the drawback of resin being significantly more expensive so once again what is the more important thing for you guys who have or might get chapterhouse bitz in the future:

A: About 30% cheaper metal bitz with on average slightly better detail quality.
B: About 30% more expensive resin bitz that on average retain better detail quality.


Examples of detail loss with resin vs pewter:
For most cases the detail is pretty evenly reproduced as seen here on the back of a pad I sculpted and had cast in both materials.

You can see some tech cabling etc that look nice when a mini has an arm raised.

But the other side has a total detail loss with nothing of the tech detail being salvageable whereas the resin has detail left.




Now this is not that uncommon, even heads casted in metal look quite nice but the ones I did in resin at home look sharper still.
So there is a chance that thunderhammer etc that is cast in metal might loose that small detail on some side but it will on the positive side, be a bit cheaper and metal is probably more friendly in the sense that it is being more recognisable.

I may have missed something, but what about good ol' polystyrene plastic? Easiest to work with, as its soft, and works with plastic cement. I can't say that I'd be much interested in pewter or resin. I'll give up a bit of detail to have something convenient to work with.

That said, just be smart. Use what makes sense for the individual bit.

We are.
The problem is complex small bitz like heads etc. If unlucky there is detail loss and mold line on a very bad place and if you are a hobbyist that is keen on detail and not a pro at painting over things to make them look better that can spoil quite a lot.

Hmmm.. that is indeed a hard choice to make between Pewter and Resin.. but lets face some facts...

Metal + plastic = Nightmare on gluing street. Glue up together 3 Broadside battlesuits then talk to me about metal.

However.. i would have to side with metal.. so long that the metal parts have clear and/or hidden connection parts. Shoulder plates are a perfect example to that as you can hide pretty much any mess with superglue.

The only problem i really don't like about metal is the lower quality. Games workshop metal models for the imperial guard are a example here... take a look at the IG melta gun vet's. You get 2 in a blister... last time i brought some about 10 months ago, their faces were melted on the side... like they had their face smashed in while flying into a wall.

Perhaps you should have different items in different materials. Pewter for simple things like shoulders and emblems that won't effect the center of weight on the model, while we have resin for items that can't have too much weight unless it would unbalance the model (shields, weapons, big items, etc).

Well.. that's my two cents.

I say pewter. I have assembled thousands of pewter minis and am completely comfortable with it. Resin tends to be fragile, and can be a little more difficult to work with.

Commander Endova wrote:I may have missed something, but what about good ol' polystyrene plastic? Easiest to work with, as its soft, and works with plastic cement. I can't say that I'd be much interested in pewter or resin. I'll give up a bit of detail to have something convenient to work with.

That said, just be smart. Use what makes sense for the individual bit.

When you go for plastic, you are looking at a cost of at least 1250$ for the initial molding. Just not feasible for a small start-up company that has over 50 products now (and growing).

Metal - easier to work with.

For small bits like heads or arms or whatever, I don't think there is any real difference.

For larger pieces, like a whole model with multiple large parts, I'm in the resin camp. Lighter, easier to work with, the paint doesn't chip as easily.

If you can get the same detail on what you are working on in metal and it is cheaper I would vote for metal.

"Depends"

As someone who has your old shields and the current metal ones....the metal ones are definitely my favorite. However, add a mold line going down the center of the shield and I would say resin! My biggest complaints with metal are;

1. Removing awkward mold lines----very difficult to do on metal
2. Weight

I've also purchased your Thunder hammers, which are metal for those whom don't have them...and I had to counter weight my models with fish weights to prevent tipping. Even then, they tend to get a bit 'heavy' on hills. This may be partly due to my flat bottom bases...but I think it's mostly the metal.

That said, in very small/thin bits nothing beats metal. I've ordered plenty of FW items...and getting models with resin swords so thin that a strong breeze snaps it...well no thanks. So I think you should just look at each mold and bit on its own accord, then decide from there . People will pay an extra buck for your stuff if it's durable and easy to assemble/clean.