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This is my 1500 point list. Is there any way to TRIM a few squads to fit in 10 lootas (feel free to critique the list to)

Biker Warboss-Attack Squig, Power Klaw, Cybork Body-150

Grotsnik-160

30 Slugga boyz-Nob with BP and PK-220

28 Shoota boyz-Nob with BP and PK-208

28 Shoota boyz-Nob with BP and PK-208

20 Stormboyz-Nob with PK and BP-280

10 Kommandos-2 Burnas and Snikrot-215

16 grots with herder-58

total-1499

Drop grotsnik and you'll get 10 lootas straight away. Grotsnik doesn't serve much purpose besides giving feel no pain to one unit he's attatched with or allowing cybork boddies.

the grots also look like a point filler. Drop them and you've now got 220 points to work with.

Stormboyz as a large unit will have problems deep striking, if you do deep strike them that is. Coming across the field I cannot see many of them making it with 6+ armour save and moving through terrain with jump packs they must take dangerous terrain tests. I'd drop these beed up those shoota boy mobs to 30 and get a big mek with a KFF, tbh I'd get 2 meks. You can now get a cover save for those boyz on foot, which is a bonus considering your not going mech.

Also the boss is on his own on his bike, he needs support. So double big meks with KFF would be best.

1.) You could drop 15 boyz (5 from ea. squad) and the entire grot squad. I'd much rather have 10 lootas than a handful of grotz and boyz.

2.) Replace Grotsnik with a Big Mek w/ KFF and drop boyz & grotz as required.

3.) A combination of 1 & 2 and use remaining points to add some Big Shootas in your shoota squads.

I think those are the best ways to achieve your goal.

Question: What are you going to do about vehicles? It seems that you have no anti-armor capability with the exception of the added lootas. The lootas would only be good against low armored vehicles. Just a thought...

Note: I like this footsloggin list. It's what I would do (more or less) if I had the stormboy models.

Actually the list has been tuned to be around Grotsnik as a meat shield which is why i lack a kff. Plenty of terrain to get the 4+.

Are 5 lootas any effective?

As I said in your tactics thread, 5 lootas (or any group that isn't full strength for that matter) are very likely to just run away. They can pay for themselves if left alone, but with only needing to shoot two of them to get them to make a panic test, and only a 7 leadership holding them on the board, you can't expect them to shine.

Stormboyz are nice, but keep in mind that they aren't that cost effective. A mech ork list can field the exact same number of attacks using boyz with a wider assault range for less points. Take it for what it is, but they are the bridesmaid, not the bride, when it comes to delivering 4 str 4 attacks and a powerklaw to the frontline.

The sluggas you are running across the board are at an even worse disadvantage, though I assume you are putting Grotsnik in that group as your meatshield. At least I hope that is what you are doing, as he won't help much for the grots, which I could also see you using as a screen if you haven't done the math. Suffice to say, toughness 2 does not work well with feel no pain.

I don't see an obvious thing to deduct without significantly reworking the list to eek out 10 (or more desirably 15) lootas.

daemon wrote:Actually the list has been tuned to be around Grotsnik as a meat shield which is why i lack a kff. Plenty of terrain to get the 4+.

Are 5 lootas any effective?

5 Lootas are fine. They obviously don't impact the game as much as 15, but are such a small investment that they don't need to. If they are forced to make a test and fail it you're only losing a whopping 45 points. They usually pay themselves back with 1 round of shooting.

I'd drop a Boyz unit to find the points. You have too many troops and not enough firepower for a 1500 point list.

Alright so i guess i will stick with this list for now and then play a few games before deciding if i really need lootas. If i don't i can always just go up to 1750 points and add a full squad of lootas and more grots for the screen

Well, Lootas are more effective in larger squads, say a squad of 12 to 15.
More dakka and more staying power.

Kevin Nash wrote: 5 Lootas are fine. They obviously don't impact the game as much as 15, but are such a small investment that they don't need to. If they are forced to make a test and fail it you're only losing a whopping 45 points.

When I was playing Orks over the summer I only had 5 loota models and therefore only fielded five of them. Granted we only played 750-1000 point games, but they were rarely fired on as my opponents sought to destroy the incoming boyz instead. This gave them free reign to fire from cover as much as they wanted. Although 10-15 would be more effective, I agree that 75 points worth is still some hitting power for very little risk.

daemon wrote:Alright so i guess i will stick with this list for now and then play a few games before deciding if i really need lootas. If i don't i can always just go up to 1750 points and add a full squad of lootas and more grots for the screen

This is the Bible of 40k. Play, play, play! Try your list and find out what it needs. Certain models look like they'll work one way on paper and don't perform nearly as well on the table. Some weapons look useless in the codex, but annihilate your enemies up close. I say keep plugging and play as much as possible. Good luck and happy wargaming!

FlightMek wrote:When I was playing Orks over the summer I only had 5 loota models and therefore only fielded five of them. Granted we only played 750-1000 point games, but they were rarely fired on as my opponents sought to destroy the incoming boyz instead. This gave them free reign to fire from cover as much as they wanted. Although 10-15 would be more effective, I agree that 75 points worth is still some hitting power for very little risk.

OK, so let's say it a different way: The only thing holding 5 lootas on the table is prayer, which is a thin thread by 40k standards. 15 is a stable firing platform. 5 would only fire as long as your opponent allowed them to.

I gotta say though, pesonal affairs aside, 5 lootas in a building is well worth its points cost if it even kills something.

Carnuss wrote:

FlightMek wrote:When I was playing Orks over the summer I only had 5 loota models and therefore only fielded five of them. Granted we only played 750-1000 point games, but they were rarely fired on as my opponents sought to destroy the incoming boyz instead. This gave them free reign to fire from cover as much as they wanted. Although 10-15 would be more effective, I agree that 75 points worth is still some hitting power for very little risk.

OK, so let's say it a different way: The only thing holding 5 lootas on the table is prayer, which is a thin thread by 40k standards. 15 is a stable firing platform. 5 would only fire as long as your opponent allowed them to.

5 still requires at least some commitment from an opponent. Obviously you put them in cover because we're good 40k players. With cover saves, and at long range, your opponent must commit some long range fire to remove them. Make some cover saves? The unit is untouched. He'll have to continue to commit firing until the unit is wiped and that means he's ignoring the horde of 60 boys running at him. You still have a decent chance of making a test even if he picks off 1-2 of them. If they fail the test? You lost a whopping 45 points. It's a minor investment. Conversely 5 lootas has decent odds to at least shake at AV 11 or AV 12 vehicle. If you get lucky on your shot rolls and get 15 shots and 5 hits you have a pretty good chance of blowing up a vehicle and you did it with only a 75 point investment.

Don't get me wrong here, 15 is ideal. And if I have the points I prefer to run them as a squad of 15 (actually multiple squads if I have the points). That said if I'm scraping for points a unit of 5 is better than a lot of other units in the ork codex. Generally I never run less than two units. If I only run 1 I'm setting myself up for some bad deffgun rolls. Multiple units helps the odds in my favor of getting more balanced shot rolls. Running them 15/5 or 15/5/5 or 15/15/5 or even 5/5/5 is perfectly valid and I actually would prefer 5/5/5 to a lone unit of 15. You have more diverse firepower that way and the ability to split fire which results in less overkill.

12 Lootas work magic for me

OP: Some terrible advice being dispensed in this thread regarding squad size and 5 Lootas.

5 Lootas are incredibly weak, provide a pretty much guaranteed killpoint. A single template will end them. A single speeder turbo-boosting across the field during the scout move to end them on turn1 with a flamer. Any random vehicle. 75 points providing a killpoint and a lost elite slot to ANYTHING that shoots at it is a terrible investment. *sigh* There's plenty of threads discussing this, and I'd encourage you to go read them - I'm not going to expend massive amounts of energy trying to explain common sense, but know that if you start fielding minimized ork squads like you're a dark eldar or marine player, you're going to suffer on the battlefield.

Dashofpepper wrote:OP: Some terrible advice being dispensed in this thread regarding squad size and 5 Lootas.

5 Lootas are incredibly weak, provide a pretty much guaranteed killpoint. A single template will end them. A single speeder turbo-boosting across the field during the scout move to end them on turn1 with a flamer. Any random vehicle. 75 points providing a killpoint and a lost elite slot to ANYTHING that shoots at it is a terrible investment. *sigh* There's plenty of threads discussing this, and I'd encourage you to go read them - I'm not going to expend massive amounts of energy trying to explain common sense, but know that if you start fielding minimized ork squads like you're a dark eldar or marine player, you're going to suffer on the battlefield.

There was very little "5 lootas are an elite unit and will win Adepticon for you" encouragements and far more, "5 lootas aren't super powerful, but low enough on the threat meter to fly under the radar" as-a-matter-of-factness. Before acting like you have been inconvenienced for having to put people in their place, read what they have written. I am pretty sure that both Kevin Nash and myself admitted that a full squad would be better than 5. We were simply pointing out that 5 tend to be ignored.

Also, I was very clear in my explanation of how my games were lower points than the OP's are. Also - anyone can dream up any type of perfect counter for any unit. For example, a speeder with flamer is the pefect counter for a squad of exactly 5 lootas in cover. Lets not make it like every Marine player is dying to put that in his list, eh?

Carnuss wrote:

FlightMek wrote:When I was playing Orks over the summer I only had 5 loota models and therefore only fielded five of them. Granted we only played 750-1000 point games, but they were rarely fired on as my opponents sought to destroy the incoming boyz instead. This gave them free reign to fire from cover as much as they wanted. Although 10-15 would be more effective, I agree that 75 points worth is still some hitting power for very little risk.

OK, so let's say it a different way: The only thing holding 5 lootas on the table is prayer, which is a thin thread by 40k standards. 15 is a stable firing platform. 5 would only fire as long as your opponent allowed them to.

How about we say it the way I wrote it - which is far more accurate. I am fairly certain that I admitted 15 would be better. My argument was obviously not to promote the use of 5 lootas as I quickly pointed out that I only owned 5 of them at the time and played lower point games.

Dashofpepper wrote:OP: Some terrible advice being dispensed in this thread regarding squad size and 5 Lootas.

5 Lootas are incredibly weak, provide a pretty much guaranteed killpoint. A single template will end them. A single speeder turbo-boosting across the field during the scout move to end them on turn1 with a flamer. Any random vehicle. 75 points providing a killpoint and a lost elite slot to ANYTHING that shoots at it is a terrible investment. *sigh* There's plenty of threads discussing this, and I'd encourage you to go read them - I'm not going to expend massive amounts of energy trying to explain common sense, but know that if you start fielding minimized ork squads like you're a dark eldar or marine player, you're going to suffer on the battlefield.

This coming from a player whom has posted ork lists with zero lootas, despite the fact they are the best unit in the codex and a player who insists on running trukk boyz which run into the very problem you're admonishing.

MSU strategies can work great and on a point for point basis can be very productive when used correctly. Getting rid of 5 lootas in cover is not exactly easy on the first turn of the game when they are 48" away. Not a lot of armies have a vast array of ways of removing them and if they do, they are spending valuable long range shooting to do so. If they remove your a loota unit so be it, you have 2 other units to contend with.

When your opponent drops a Weaken Resolve with his Psyker Battle Squad on your 15 man loota unit on turn 1 and almost 200 points worth of Lootas run off the table you'll feel just as frustrated I assure you.

The point of my posts, which you didn't bother reading apparently, is that 15 Lootas is ideal but that 5 is better than zero or ignoring the FO entirely.

Ill try it.

Low points, 48 inches, in cover. Its not something worth shooting at but definitely will pester the enemy. Of course it will be highly unreliable for vehicles and heavy units it will be much more help picking off at infantry one at a time.

I think low numbers are sometimes underestimated as well as someone on dakka wrote a tactica about using 5 stormboyz and it works great for him.

FlightMek wrote:"5 lootas aren't super powerful, but low enough on the threat meter to fly under the radar" as-a-matter-of-factness. Before acting like you have been inconvenienced for having to put people in their place, read what they have written. I am pretty sure that both Kevin Nash and myself admitted that a full squad would be better than 5. We were simply pointing out that 5 tend to be ignored.

I tell you what you play me and it comes up as a Kill points game, those 5 Loota Boyz are gunna be high on my list of "easy kill points" cover or not

Actually i just realised i could fit in 4 kannons in place of my 16 grot shield for some needed long range fire.

Sorry for the fuss lol.

General_Chaos wrote:

FlightMek wrote:"5 lootas aren't super powerful, but low enough on the threat meter to fly under the radar" as-a-matter-of-factness. Before acting like you have been inconvenienced for having to put people in their place, read what they have written. I am pretty sure that both Kevin Nash and myself admitted that a full squad would be better than 5. We were simply pointing out that 5 tend to be ignored.

I tell you what you play me and it comes up as a Kill points game, those 5 Loota Boyz are gunna be high on my list of "easy kill points" cover or not

I have to agree with the general here. Kill 2 of them and they take a leadership test, though more than likely you'll kill the lot as a small unit. Though 5 lootas are not threatening, even if you roll a 5 or 6 and get 15 shots thats still not going to be a lot of 5+ rolls.

Kevin, you don't read a lot of my posts if you don't see Lootas in my discussions. I don't advocate running Lootas as an afterthought in a mechanized list where they're going to sit alone and lonely waiting to absorb someone's wrath, but that's the limit.

5 Lootas don't need a speeder with a flamer to kill them. ANYTHING will do the trick. A drop pod. Whatever is inside the drop pod. A skimmer tossing in a shot or two. A missile launcher's small template. A devilfish would be ecstatic for a target that a burst cannon doesn't feel useless against. A single deffkopta. Literally...ANYTHING with range can (and should) take a random potshot or two at the Loota unit to end them.

It isn't "Eh, only 5 of them, might as well ignore them despite the fact that they have the BEST GUNS IN THE ORK ARSENAL"

It's more a case of "HA! Only 5 of them, and they have dangerous guns. Better to kill them / make them run with a shot or two and destroy a whole unit / killpoint / FoC slot instead of adding a lost model or two to a horde."

I can't see 5 Lootas flying under the threat meter of any intelligent gamer. Lootas are dangerous, and presenting a tiny, kill-able unit of them that can be destroyed by virtually anything is begging to lose them.

@Flightmek: It *is* an inconvenience to have to go in-depth to explain common sense.

So rather than argue about it, just take it as an option:

Option 1
Field an underpowered unit, which will likely as not accomplish nothing. This unit needs to be treated with extra care, including running under a sink of holy water, tossing chicken bones around it, knocking the models on wood, and painting the models with your lucky number in the hopes that they will actually stay on the table long enough to fire a volley. Be sure to pray to whatever deity your culture customarily addresses for luck as well, because this group is going to need it. In the event that the above works, you need to repeat the process in the hopes that they might actually destroy something with that volley. Regardless of what happens in the game, be sure to tell your opponent that you value him as a player, and have decided to put 1 free kill point on the table to express your gratitude to him for choosing to play the game with you.

Alternatively...

Option 2
Don't field the unit, and instead build rock solid groups that don't run at the first sign of adversity.


Either option is completely viable, and both will end in a predictable result.

General_Chaos wrote:

FlightMek wrote:"5 lootas aren't super powerful, but low enough on the threat meter to fly under the radar" as-a-matter-of-factness. Before acting like you have been inconvenienced for having to put people in their place, read what they have written. I am pretty sure that both Kevin Nash and myself admitted that a full squad would be better than 5. We were simply pointing out that 5 tend to be ignored.

I tell you what you play me and it comes up as a Kill points game, those 5 Loota Boyz are gunna be high on my list of "easy kill points" cover or not

Lets recap:
1.) I can not play you "General_Chaos" because I do not know who you are or where you live, nor would I like to. Thanks for "telling me what". I can feel the awesomeness seething from you!
2.) LOOTA SQUADS ARE BETTER SUITED WITH MORE THAN FIVE MODELS!!! (just figured I would state this again for those of you that seem to be neglecting the fact that I actually agree with this concept and have stated it several times already.)
3.) The perfect scenario - i.e speeders w/ flamers, long range firepower, rolling annihilation, Ork player failing cover saves and morale checks - will definately effect the survivability of a 5-Ork loota squad. Just like...uh - every other unit in the game. If the conditions are right...anyone will go down as a KP.
4.) In case you missed it the first two times: I used a squad like this in games of 1000pts or less!
5.) I never claimed to be the almighty king of 40k. Hell...I am just a noob who started playing less than a year ago. The guy asked a question and I answered it by refrencing my own experiences of actual games that I participated in over the course of 2-3 months. I did not, however, fabricate specific conditions and scenarios to bury someone elses opinion.
6.) Now is the part where the elite posters will say that the people I played against sucked and did not capitalize on my "weak" loota squad. Well - it wasn't a tournament and we never play to simply win the game. We actually enjoy rolling dice and having a couple of cold beers while we do it.

How about not starting a "mine is bigger than yours" contest. If you think the 5-ork loota squad is a bad choice, please state how it is a weak choice. Describe how it may be taken advantage of, but don't attack me - especially when I was very clear in describing the conditions of their success several times. Especially since I never claimed it to be the end-all-be-all of wargaimng.

TO THE OP: Dude...the only way to know for sure is to try for yourself - as you already said you intended on doing. I am just saying that in all the 750-1000pt games I fielded them (probably around 10) they never ran away and I never lost because my opponent wiped them out. They took fire and survived. They were cheap, laid low, and blasted a few times per game. Once again - just letting you know from personal experience. There are a ton of units that can wipe the floor with them and they are a risky choice, but if you're not into taking risks - what the hell are you doing playing Orks anyway?!

FlightMek wrote:6.) Now is the part where the elite posters will say that the people I played against sucked and did not capitalize on my "weak" loota squad. Well - it wasn't a tournament and we never play to simply win the game. We actually enjoy rolling dice and having a couple of cold beers while we do it.

An unknown error has occurred. Your statement does not compute. Enjoyment is a variable that isn't clearly defined in the codex, and therefore can not be used (RAW). The rules for winning are very clear, and should be understood clearly by all parties.

Flightmek, you're deftly dodging around the point with holier-than-thou self-defense that isn't warranted.

No one is arguing that you shouldn't take max Lootas when possible. We *all* agree on that. No one is personally attacking you either.

Where we differ is this:

You think taking 5 Lootas is preferable to 0 Lootas.
I think taking 0 Lootas is preferable to 5 Lootas.

There's no perfect scenario required for killing 5 Lootas - your examples are bordering ridiculous. Its a matter of simple firepower...its not that a speeder with a flamer is ideally situated for killing Lootas (they could kill a full Loota squad too) but the fact that statistics are NOT in favor of the Lootas, and that any firepower from anything that can range them can take them off the table. Leadership 7 means a 50% chance to fail leadership and run. A coversave of 4+ means a 50% chance of failing. Only 5 models?

Even if this Loota squad loses 2-3 models and passes leadership, it leaves a 2-3 ork squad needing 5+ to hit without the barrage of shots that makes them effective in the first place. There's simply no win in this.

Dashofpepper wrote: 5 Lootas don't need a speeder with a flamer to kill them. ANYTHING will do the trick. A drop pod. Whatever is inside the drop pod. A skimmer tossing in a shot or two. A missile launcher's small template. A devilfish would be ecstatic for a target that a burst cannon doesn't feel useless against. A single deffkopta. Literally...ANYTHING with range can (and should) take a random potshot or two at the Loota unit to end them.

Again you are stating fabricated scenarios - flawed ones at that - as fact. I am still waiting for the BatRep where you actually discuss how you witnessed the demise firsthand. But until then:

Speeder w/ flamer - I only used that example because you used it as a counter to lootas in cover. I admitted that it is the perfect model to send against a 5-man loota squad and also pointed out that it is not the "first-choice" for many marine players. Having notcied your argument was flawed, you reached for another....

A Drop Pod - I deploy 75pts of lootas in cover across the table and safe from most of your weapons. You pay - assuming you're taking a bare bones dreadnought as it is one of the lowests costing units that can take a pod - 140 pts (that's almost double what the lootas cost) to roll reserves on a unit (unless you only have one or it is half that deploy in first turn) that could possibly roll miserably all be lost to the warp. Also, once this unit is done "wiping the floor" w/ my lootas, my boyz are in your face while that dread lumbers about in the backfield.
Note: If you only take on drop pod you could get it the first turn, I suppose. The points are still spent, though, and the lootas did their job by drawing out a dreadnaught (or whatever.)

A skimmer tossing in a shot or two - Yeah. A shot or two that must hit twice, wound twice, get two failed cover savesand a failed morale check. I'll take my chances to draw fire from lets say - a skimmer w/ a hvy bolter or assault cannon. Hey, are those boyz in your face yet?

A ML small template - Again you are making it a perfect scenario to argue your point while dismissing probabilities and points cost. One frag missile? Really? That's a roll to hit w/ a scatter, rolls to wound, and failed saves and morale checks. I would say we're still even. Not to mention you've spent at least 105 points (that's 30pts more than me) on a Marine Devastator squad with only one ML JUST to get a "pot shot" as you call it. I know your argument would be that the squad will be bigger, but I am using your arguments here. Man, am I glad that blast didn't go off in the middle of a unit of boyz!

Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon - Never played Tau, so you got me here. That's one for the bad guys, I guess.

Single Deffkopta - Again, you are assuming you hit and wound twice in the same round with a one shot weapon (5+ to hit) to force two failed cover checks and a failed morale check. Not only is this a terrible argument, it is also impossible to achieve in one round. Coming from a guy who is using killpoints as the substance of his argument, 45pts for a single DK is suicide - and you know it.

In each case you are devoting more points and adjusting your strategy to kill this "horrific" unit choice. For 75 points, they certainly won't take MVP for dead-killy choice of the game, but they may help in controlling the tempo in a battle. I believe some ancient Chinese dude said this was important....

Dashofpepper wrote: I can't see 5 Lootas flying under the threat meter of any intelligent gamer. Lootas are dangerous, and presenting a tiny, kill-able unit of them that can be destroyed by virtually anything is begging to lose them. @Flightmek: It *is* an inconvenience to have to go in-depth to explain common sense.

Having my intelligence questioned by a guy who has his own personal fanboy on Dakka (your buddy Carnuss who's only gallery posts are praises to your 40k greatness) is hardly insulting. Not to mention the cat with a lime on its head as an avatar. I don't even have to insult you. Your own arrogance, lame arguments, and insatiable lust to be the God of 40k does it for me. Thank you and good night.

AGAIN: I never argued that 5 lootas was superior to 10 or 15. Also, I am not that great at this game - as I have admitted repeatedly on threads all over the place - I am still learning. One thing I do know, though, is that I did use a squad of 5 lootas and they did do well several times. I also learned that I needed more of them for them to have the effect I truly desired.

from posted list drop grotsnick and warbosses bike and grots and add a kff mek and 10x lootas~ should be about right on points

Dashofpepper wrote:Flightmek, you're deftly dodging around the point with holier-than-thou self-defense that isn't warranted.

There's no perfect scenario required for killing 5 Lootas - your examples are bordering ridiculous.

My examples? You must be referring to the 10 games I fielded them in where they didn't win the game for me, but definately avoided losing it for me as well. I don't see how fact is ridiculous. How about you deflate your head a little and take facts for facts. I PLAYED with them and they did ok. There is no argument here. There is no experience level confrontation. There is no magical 40k equation to be worked out. It happened. I was there. I saw it....

As for my list which attempts to disprove your points: I think I pretty much showed how you are investing a lot of time and effort in -not only arguing about this - but also trying to remove those lootas from the table. THAT'S the point here. Either they fire freely round by round, or your enemy has to devote his long range firepower (or whatever) to get rid of them. Even for only one turn...that's a turn your footsloggers didn't get fired at.

All I have done here is answered a question by sharing a personal experience. For some reason the dakka elites felt the need to pummel a real-life event into the ground and call it Ork blasphemy. I apologize if the fact that my 5-man loota squad survived bothers you, but it did indeed happen. I never said it was top choice for a competitve list. I am not trying to convert anyone either. I am simply sharing a story. Just try to remember that before your ginormous head explodes into a burst of 40k strategy.

Flightmek, do you even play orks?

I'm not even going to bother addressing the book that you wrote, since most of it is completely non-topical or obtusely missing what I'm saying, but I would like to address the personal attack.

I *do* like single deffkoptas. I fit them into most of my 1850 lists. With a 24" pre-turn 1 turbo-boost, it can be in your face and assaulting on turn1. Those twin-linked rokkits can take a pot-shot then assault a vehicle that hasn't moved yet on turn 1. Against a little Loota squad like this, I'd actually toss a deffkopta into close combat on turn1 and trust my T5 against the Lootas STR3 to pretty much end them. I'm not sure whether to presume you already knew that and are intentionally ignoring all relevant information here about the weakness and poor choice in taking a 5 ork Loota squad.....or to presume you don't play orks and shouldn't be chiming into what units and sizes are more tactically relevant than others.

Either way, I feel like I'm talking to a wall, and the responses I'm seeing don't address anything relevant, so I'm bowing out of this thread.

/bows out

Dashofpepper wrote:Flightmek, do you even play orks?

I'm not even going to bother addressing the book that you wrote, since most of it is completely non-topical or obtusely missing what I'm saying, but I would like to address the personal attack.

Well, I know you are probably terribly busy with insulting members on some other forum, so please don't let me delay you. I like how you have mastered this old strategy:
1.) Start argument
2.) Throw insults
3.) Make faulty points
4.) Throw more insults
5.) Quit and act like it was intentional.

My post might seem "non-topical" because I followed the format of your very own argument.

Dashofpepper wrote:I *do* like single deffkoptas. I fit them into most of my 1850 lists. With a 24" pre-turn 1 turbo-boost, it can be in your face and assaulting on turn1. Those twin-linked rokkits can take a pot-shot then assault a vehicle that hasn't moved yet on turn 1. Against a little Loota squad like this, I'd actually toss a deffkopta into close combat on turn1 and trust my T5 against the Lootas STR3 to pretty much end them. I'm not sure whether to presume you already knew that and are intentionally ignoring all relevant information here about the weakness and poor choice in taking a 5 ork Loota squad.....or to presume you don't play orks and shouldn't be chiming into what units and sizes are more tactically relevant than others.

Either way, I feel like I'm talking to a wall, and the responses I'm seeing don't address anything relevant, so I'm bowing out of this thread.

/bows out

Again you are assuming you go first, are using orks w/ a single deffkopta, turbo boost over the nice CLEAR battlefield into perfect position, don't fail your dangerous terrain check, yadda yadda yadda. By SPECIFYING a unit and the conditions required (i.e- turbo boosting assuming there is no terrain in the way) you are disproving your "anyone can kill them easily" statement. I never said they were invulnerable. I said they worked for me on a few occasions in small games.

As is common among elitists, you have turned my simple comment relative to a real-life event into a contest of "who knows better" about a ing tabletop game. Congratulations! I award you the "Clown Shoes" award of the decade!!! I am pretty sure that does it.