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1. Too many jobs have been shipped overseas

2. Too many jobs have been replaced by machines.

3. Employers put the work of 3 on one worker, who is too fearful to speak up.


Now a little of all three isn't bad. But I feel it is too much of all 3 that will keep Employment down no matter who is in power.


Until tax loops are closed, companies are punished for hiring Illegals, and for over outsourceing, price rigging, market rigging, and over working the few remaining workers, we will just have another sector bubble and bust.


Thoughts? Ideas? Please try to stay apolitical.

And stay apolitical? Impossible...

I can agree to a greater/lesser degree with you on all of your points.
On a personal level,I can atest to employers overloading their employes,at the shop where I work their was quite a few "layoffs",mostly among "non esential/unskilled employes" (which is normal when layoffs occur),now our workloads have increased to a ridiculous level,my dept. went from 15 employes to 10,yet our "expected " ammount of "cars home" has increased,so much so that by the end of the day( 11-12 hours) we (the guys in the shop) basicly crawl to our cars to go home.
And of course complaining is limited,as most employes belive it's better to be employed and worked to death then to speak up about the conditions and be unemployed.

Maybe you should suck less and learn how to compete on the open market.

Swings and roundabouts skip.

As one sector fades, another rises. Just takes a while for people to adjust.

Nurglitch wrote:Maybe you should suck less and learn how to compete on the open market.

Competing in the open market doesn't worry me,I'm very well paid and have been given insentive raises twice for not quiting my current job,if I walked out tomorrow,I'd be able to walk into any auto shop and be hired on the spot.
What holds me to my current job is a certain amount of loyalty to the guys I work with every day....that and the huge paychecks.

I thought it was this:

0. People want to buy stuff that costs less.

Nurglitch wrote:Maybe you should suck less and learn how to compete on the open market.

Rarr... I be sinking tharr vessel of nautical disadvantage...





Jobs will recover, there is no question about that; the real question is when, and how. There is also no doubt that the economy has changed drastically in this newest century (due to factors brought on by the previous centuries), and people will have to adapt to that.

I look at the internet as a low output opportunity, where I can develop a brand, through which I can promote a company independently. This is not to say that there will be enough opportunity for everyone, but as an example, it is an appropriate one.

For your average person, life is going to get more challenging, inevitably providing more opportunities through that challenge. Not the type of opportunities that one would associate directly with success, but viable ones nonetheless. Globally, I have no clue what will happen, besides China continuing to provide dominance to the market generically, through labor and structural means, that many other 'first world countries' do not have access too.

Everybody shipping jobs overseas is self defeating.
You reduce costs in the short term. But you reduce income in your market areas.
So you sell less products or sell the same amount at a lower price.

sexiest_hero wrote:1. Too many jobs have been shipped overseas

2. Too many jobs have been replaced by machines.

3. Employers put the work of 3 on one worker, who is too fearful to speak up.


Now a little of all three isn't bad. But I feel it is too much of all 3 that will keep Employment down no matter who is in power.


Until tax loops are closed, companies are punished for hiring Illegals, and for over outsourceing, price rigging, market rigging, and over working the few remaining workers, we will just have another sector bubble and bust.


Thoughts? Ideas? Please try to stay apolitical.

People make these arguments whenever there is a downturn in economic demand.

Thing is, globalisation and mechanisation represent jobs going away because we have better ways to produce those products. The answer is not to stop developing machinery or stop moving jobs to the locations that produce goods at lowest cost, the answer is to grow new jobs in new fields.

A classic example is the concern over all our clothes being made in Asia. The answer is not to shut down imports from Asia, as all that'd mean is we'd pay some guy $6 an hour to make shirts, and you'd pay 20 or 30% more for your clothes. Not good for the consumer, and not good for the guy who can hardly make ends meet at $6 an hour. The alternative is to grow new markets, focus on the strengths of the economy and increase the number of high skill jobs, you want high end service and manufacturing postions.

The financial crisis has limited investment in those industries, and reduced demand has limited their viability in addition. But the financial crisis is a temporary thing.

You can't fight progress. Business is business - if a company can find a way of improving efficiency, and increasing its income, it inevitably will. No-one employs people out of the kindness of their heart - they will always have one eye on the bottom line. Which is why, as sebster noted, we should look at creating new markets. I honestly think the UKs alternative energy plans are an attempt at this.

Answers:
1. Protectionism
2. Luddites!
3. Workers of the World, Unite!

sexiest_hero wrote:Thoughts? Ideas? Please try to stay apolitical.

I'm really curious what compels you to think that those three things have only started happening within the last twelve months?

1. False. Unskilled faceless tasks have been shipped overseas - many of which have a customer backlash drawing those same jobs back. Regardless, attempting to reduce labor costs is normal.

2. False. Efficiency and safety are as much benefits of machines as replacing idle workers.

3. False. Many workers actually can do the work of three. Finding a balance of the 'law of diminishing returns' will always be a difficulty for business.

Until tax loops are closed, companies are punished for hiring Illegals, and for over outsourceing, price rigging, market rigging, and over working the few remaining workers, we will just have another sector bubble and bust.

Tax loopholes are law loopholes. Human craftsmanship is always flawed.
Illegals provide low cost labor for tasks that natives are simply unwilling to accept. I'd cite Cosby's 'Pound Cake' speech but this isn't limited by phenotype. Lower labor costs allow companies to deliver lower price goods and services as with outsourcing.
Price/Market rigging is pretty vague - depending on your business these are difficult to prove at best.
As for overworking...that's so dependent on the business as to be indefensible without specifics on particular business fields.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
3. Workers of the World, Unite!

Pinkertons didn't swing hard or fast enough. Unions are significant contributors to high cost labor and unreasonable expectations despite their positive impact on working conditions.

As someone with an inside perspective on the IT and manufacturing industries, I can tell you that unions contribute directly to outsourcing and cause financial problems for manufacturers.

Oldgrue wrote:Price/Market rigging is pretty vague - depending on your business these are difficult to prove at best.

Unions are significant contributors to high cost labor and unreasonable expectations despite their positive impact on working conditions.

Unionizing is a form of price-fixing.

Yup. If it were simply a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, instead of unlimited pay for no work, I'd be all for them.

You guys are most likely right. But there are no new sectors springing up to hire people this time around. I remember the tech bubble bust as well as this bubbles bust. Every time more people are pulled in to these markets and the effect of the fall is longer and the impact greater. This is something I belive has been going on for many years, just like padding books and lieing to investors. As for the new sector, what happens if it sizzles before it starts, or people fight against it or something else. There has to be some accountability.
Unions may indeed be an issue (alothough I don't think so)Do you think not having unions would lead to jobs growth?

It would seem to me that a union is most useful when there's an oligopolistic control within the industry; it allows the workers to mirror the management's collective bargaining ability. Then, as competition between employers increases, the unions start to become a liability (at first to their employers and eventually to themselves).

Any thoughts?

All I know are the Rail road union, and my father (A pastor and blue dog Democrat) Always moans about the poor condition the hew non-union hires have to work in. Maybe It's the only way for the company to survive, idk, but he says it's a crying shame. Also the airforce reserves has an "Advocy group" we can pay to join and they look out for our best interests. Maybe other unions are worse?

What would you guys do to spur job growth?

I'm sick of chinese rubbish that breaks after a few uses.

I'd rather pay a (realistic) premium for quality that the rubbish we get now.

But I'm a unique snowflake.

Related to the unions, has anyone from the UK seen the BA issues lately? The workers seem to be commiting financial suicide to me...

I'll summarise for those Yanks:

1) British airways staff are: EXTREMELY Well paid (2x as much as some airlines), well trained and employed.

2) They want: MOAR MONEYZ, more staff to reduce workload and better "conditions" (Vague to me...)

3) This will result in them being unemployed.

This is why I hate unions. That and what I have heard about the miners strike.

We have issues with jobs where I live (Middlesbrough, NE england)

Our local steel works is gonna shut down. The local paper runs this whole thing about "save our steel" but no-one realises the important facts.

It is cheaper to make steel abroad. No need to import ore. Cheaper Labour. Less emission restrictions etc.

It is pointless trying to fight it, we should move into other sectors.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:I'm sick of chinese rubbish that breaks after a few uses.

I'd rather pay a (realistic) premium for quality that the rubbish we get now.

But I'm a unique snowflake.

Not so unique.

I like quality aswell. Thats why I have a landrover, and a mercedes motorcaravan, both good quality vehicles.
The landrover is 34 yrs old. And I have had it for 30 of those years, built by british leyland at the height of the unions power,

Nurglitch wrote:Maybe you should suck less and learn how to compete on the open market.

So says the self professed college professor who doesn't know what an open market is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sebster wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:1. Too many jobs have been shipped overseas

2. Too many jobs have been replaced by machines.

3. Employers put the work of 3 on one worker, who is too fearful to speak up.


Now a little of all three isn't bad. But I feel it is too much of all 3 that will keep Employment down no matter who is in power.


Until tax loops are closed, companies are punished for hiring Illegals, and for over outsourceing, price rigging, market rigging, and over working the few remaining workers, we will just have another sector bubble and bust.


Thoughts? Ideas? Please try to stay apolitical.

People make these arguments whenever there is a downturn in economic demand.

Thing is, globalisation and mechanisation represent jobs going away because we have better ways to produce those products. The answer is not to stop developing machinery or stop moving jobs to the locations that produce goods at lowest cost, the answer is to grow new jobs in new fields.

A classic example is the concern over all our clothes being made in Asia. The answer is not to shut down imports from Asia, as all that'd mean is we'd pay some guy $6 an hour to make shirts, and you'd pay 20 or 30% more for your clothes. Not good for the consumer, and not good for the guy who can hardly make ends meet at $6 an hour. The alternative is to grow new markets, focus on the strengths of the economy and increase the number of high skill jobs, you want high end service and manufacturing postions.

The financial crisis has limited investment in those industries, and reduced demand has limited their viability in addition. But the financial crisis is a temporary thing.

that doesn't make it less accurate though.
How many manufacturing jobs in Britain now?

Large, heartless corporations are a natural byproduct of globalisation. If you can make it in China cheap and sell it in the US then you will do so, and you will acquire as many stages of the manufacturing and distribution network as you can.

A notable byproduct of our relatively cheap access to the internet is the opening of low cost niche jobs. There are folks on this board who survive by selling sprues and bits. On Amazon, authors are releasing books for a few dollars with no publishing company. Youtube subsidizes popular video blogs. Online editorials and webcomic artists are able to survive off of advertising money. There are full time eBay prospectors, resellers, and people that you can pay to post your items. Craigslist and bartertown allow you to sell or trade anything that can be shipped.

It is a new world. You won't find stability, but you will find the chance to be paid to do anything that there's a market for. Unskilled labor jobs are not desirable- not that they ever have been that desirable. Skilled specialists like plumbers, automechanics and construction workers are always going to be needed. Even in those fields though, constant retraining will be necessary to remain competitive. Success and constant education will go hand in hand.

Gitzbitah wrote:A notable byproduct of our relatively cheap access to the internet is the opening of low cost niche jobs. There are folks on this board who survive by selling sprues and bits.

I would be more than highly surprised if anyone who runs one of those bits sites has it as their sole source of income. The ammount of bits I would need to sell in order to just turnover the minimum wage in the uk would be insane.

Not that I disagree with you on your point, just that's a bad example.

Jobs won't recover long term, because things haven't changed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8426924.stm and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8414878.stm

parties are smaller, but they still think business as usual.

whatwhat wrote:

Gitzbitah wrote:A notable byproduct of our relatively cheap access to the internet is the opening of low cost niche jobs. There are folks on this board who survive by selling sprues and bits.

I would be more than highly surprised if anyone who runs one of those bits sites has it as their sole source of income. The ammount of bits I would need to sell in order to just turnover the minimum wage in the uk would be insane.

Not that I disagree with you on your point, just that's a bad example.

That is a very good point. I must admit I did no research on the subject, and I'm not sure if any is available. Such an operation is bound to be tiny, run by one or two people. Any bits company owner/operators out there? Is it sustainable as a sole source of income?

loki old fart wrote:Jobs won't recover long term, because things haven't changed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8426924.stm and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8414878.stm

parties are smaller, but they still think business as usual.

Which is why they're proposing a bank levy at the moment. hopefully that will go through.

yes that will help...what again?

Oh dear, not the republicans again. *runs away*