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Played a game with my brother last night, during which he insinuated that I was playing less than honorably by allying some DH forces with my guard. In particular he took offense to my calldius assassin. When I explained that I didnt know what the problem was, he had access to the same allies, he mentioned that not everyone plays "With every little trick they can find in the codex," suggesting that "It was fine for you to play that way, but its not something I would ever choose to do" etc etc. I wonder if anybody else thinks my army choices were "cheap"?

Normally I'd just shrug it off, tell him to F himself, and move on, but I figured Id come ask here and see if im somehow being an enormous D-bag and not realizing it.

Was a 2500 pt game, IG v SW

My list:

HQ

Primaris Psyker
Inq Lord w/ CCW / bolt pistol. Psychic Hood. Scourging.
2x Mystics.
2x Veteran guardsman w/ melta gun

Troops

3x Vet. Sq. w/ 2 meltaguns, 1flamer. Demolitions upgrade. Chimera w/ hull heavy flamer.
Vet Sq w/ Seargant Harker. Lascannon. demolitions. 2x Melta, 1x Flamer.

Elite

Guardsman Marbo
Callidus Assassin

Fast Attack

2x Vendetta w/ Heavy bolter sponson
3 x Armored Sentinels, 2 w/ Plasma Cannon 1w/ Lascannon
3 x Armored Sentinels, 2 w/ Plasma Cannon 1w/ Lascannon

Heavy

2 Basilisks
2 LRBTs
1 LR Demolisher


For the record, I dont really believe in some sort of moral overlay to be applied to the choices your codex gives you, but I know some do. Just curious if anybody has any thoughts,

Thanks.

Nah, its cool. As long as your opponent is a willing competitor and isn't some newb just trying to learn the game or something like that.

He probably just is jealous cause he didnt do it first. The codex allows it and you spent the money so i would take advantage of it. If you are worried about him taking offense to it anymore dumb it down for friendly games then in tournies do whatever you want.

The allies rules are there and they're legal. I see no reason for him to get upset about it.

What Orkestra says, but consider something: those ally rules will probably be phased out when the new Inquisition codex comes out, and people basing their armies on them will be outraged.

YMMV. I know several people who hate allies with a passion, and several others who couldn't give a rat's ass.

Sounds like your brother was just snivelling for the sake of being annoying.

There's nothing wrong or illegal about allies. If he has the option to play some allies, and he -chooses- not to, then he has no right to complain. He passed up the opportunity, his loss. Seems he was just afraid of losing.

see nurglich's post

The new Inquisition Codex is coming out almost entirely to eliminate the allies rules and force people using allies to buy whole armies of to field those models. Its a money grabbing gimic like usual. So I wouldn't get too worked up about using allies because they are going to be dead in 5 months

I don't much like the allies rules, but I'd play against someone using them without complaint. Specifically, I hate the rules for Mystics, as they completely screw over Daemons. I'm not a Daemon player, but it bugs me that Imperials get such an easy answer to them.

Thanks for the responses. Pretty much how I feel about it. Its a viable option.

Has anyone officially stated theyre releasing a new Inquisition book? Thatd be sweet, im all for it, even if it means I lose the allies. Hopefully they get some good updates and its not just a "money grab" as you say.

My list isnt "built around them", I use what, 200 points out of a 2500 list dedicated to allies. I bring the assassin more for the fear she invokes. Ive played probably 5 or 6 games with the mystics so far and have only had the opportunity to shoot at one drop pod and one dreadnaught to this point, theyre not integral to the army (though I do love having the option).

I don't find the assassins to be broken at all, and the mystics are only really a big problem versus Chaos Daemons.

Yeah in my opinion it fits the 40k fluff and I love nothing more than to play in inquisitor with ret. with my guard. Also I hope they leave at least one option for allies.

Your army doesn't look "cheap" at all. Callidus assassins however are really brutal, and if your opponent doesn't play all mech, they can be really un-fun.

Allies don't seem particularly "cheap" to me. That said, nobody seems to think that they will be sticking around if and when a new Inquisition codex comes out, so I'd be careful about relying on them.

Nothing wrong with Allies. You are paying the points and using the FOC slots for them after all. Although its good manners to explain what the DH/WH units are capable of pre-game, if your opponent is not familiar with them.

It is also good to remember that many DH/WH units are behind the power curve so to speak because of the age of their Codex. Good example are the Assassins that have no option for grenades .

I see nothing wrong with using allies. Usually, people just complain about "cheapness" when they get beaten by something they didn't anticipate.

I say allies are the opposite of cheap. They can be a fluffy and interesting addition to an army.

I don't play Daemons, I play Space Marines with Drop Pods and I still hate Mystics. I have a few tricks up my sleeve for them though.

We've talked about the assassin and mystics in detail, so definitely didnt surprise him.

Appreciate the heads up on the new book, but its definitely not something im relying on. Ill continue to bring her when I can because she cheaply brings an element to my army that I dont have, namely somebody he DOES NOT want to be in CC with.

I don't imagine he'd like the Eversor either.

Am I the only one finding humour in a Space Wolves player accusing another of being cheesy? lol!

Personally I dont really believe in "cheese." If its an option, go for it. Stuff like drop pods that cant get damaged etc are things I hate and complain about, but I'd never belittle another player for choosing to bring them. Anyways, I digress.

It just kind of offended me when he was going on about it for some reason. Like I had to win through "cheating" or something.

Anyways.

JRedbeard wrote:It just kind of offended me when he was going on about it for some reason. Like I had to win through "cheating" or something.

It's not that you win though cheating...

He just likely loses through sucking. He wants to win more? Tell him to suck less

Oh yeah, I know what you mean. Personally I have no problem with someone trying to "max out" their army list. If they need to win so badly at what is, let's face it, a game about toy soldiers, then that's their choice.

What I find funny is a player with what is widely considered one of the "cheesiest" codexes in the game getting hot and bothered about you playing with a perfectly acceptable list (and a very characterful one at that, fluff-wise)

The only things that big me with allies are Psyker Battle Squads plus Inquisitor/Caladus. The only thing worse than being told to pass a LD 2 Morale Chest, is having a whole brood of Fexes Instant Deathed by a flamer template with pretty much nothing you can do about it.

If he was playing Space Wolves and you had a psychic hood I imagine you were stuffing Jaws of the World Wolf right back into his face a lot of the time, yes?

That probably got his dander up...

Aduro wrote:The only things that big me with allies are Psyker Battle Squads plus Inquisitor/Caladus. The only thing worse than being told to pass a LD 2 Morale Chest, is having a whole brood of Fexes Instant Deathed by a flamer template with pretty much nothing you can do about it.

"Get them by the belt buckle"? Don´t all Synapse now have 12" Shadow in the Warp? Getting the PBS in range of the Shadow by means fair of foul should help the Hive Minds onslaught. Pouring enough firepower towards the PBS is also a valid tactic. Once you Stun the Chimera they are riding in ( assuming they have one ), you get a reprieve.

Shadow is only 12", while the PBS has a range of 36". Their power is also not classified as a Psychic Shooting Attack, so stunning the Chimera doesn't effect them. He also tends to have two of the squads. The biggest downside to the tactic I can find is that he can only do it once, then the Caladus dies.

There is no such thing as 'cheese'. Cheese is used as an excuse by people who can't handle losing to explain away their own deficiencies.

And no, allies are not 'unfair'.

Aduro wrote:Shadow is only 12", while the PBS has a range of 36". Their power is also not classified as a Psychic Shooting Attack, so stunning the Chimera doesn't effect them. He also tends to have two of the squads. The biggest downside to the tactic I can find is that he can only do it once, then the Caladus dies.

Like I said, by means fair or foul. Normal footslogging gets you 6"+ Run + 12" Shadow = 19 - 24". Jump, burrowing and/or Outflank should give some option too.

H.B.M.C. wrote:There is no such thing as 'cheese'. Cheese is used as an excuse by people who can't handle losing to explain away their own deficiencies.

And no, allies are not 'unfair'.

QFT!

Granted I have only played a few games, but so far my experience has been that if you get utterly hosed by something your opponent pulls on you it's either because you didn't pull in the right choices for your army or you just made a mistake.

I also have to agree that I see no reason for anyone to complain about taking allies. Rules in codex + good fluff justification =