Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I understand GW makes money by selling you shiny new models but making your old models just unplayable is just wrong and bad business sense.

Warmachine/Hordes did it better up up till when they came out with MKII where your old Behemoth was still his good old self even if the better Beast 09 came out that was better then the old Behemoth. You could still play with your old behemoth without having to take off his arms and make new ones.

Business model should be make new shiny thing for you to buy not make your old stuff unplayable.

Yes I know about magnets but thats not always feasible especially on smaller models.

For Example in the 5th edition codex the following things that many of us had modeled are not even legal anymore.

The old Gunfex (venom cannon, barb strangler carnifex)

Genestealers with flesh hooks

Spine fist termagaunts are no longer the default cheapest termagaunts so those spinefist termagaunts you had for scoring without number broods are now worthless since you would never take spinefists over fleshborers. (not very happy here as I have alot of old style termagaunts with spinefists and you can't exactly magnetize these without alot of work.)

I don't mind they make a unit more expensive pointswise to make something else more attractive to buy like Carnifexs got expensive points wise to promote people buying Trygon/Mawlocs but to make your old gunfex unplayable without modification is just bad. You spent good money on a model should be able to play it. As it is I gonna rip off the gunfex arms and make a custom huge cannon (rupture cannon) and put on scything talons and call it a tyranofex but if you don't have the know how to making mods your stuck.

GW does this alot remove old models from the codex or just otherwise make them unplayable. This is bad for business because you paid money for the model and can no longer use it and people get fed up with that. I understand nerfing units to make them more balanced or worse so people play them less but please don't make our models unplayable.

You people are still fething whining about this?

The "best" weapons change. They do not invalidate your models. They just alter the playstyle dynamic of your army.

GW isn't in the gaming business. They are in the model making business.

Why would it surprise you that they change the game rules to sell more models?

get over it or quit playing.
it has been this way since they started making miniatures.

Kirika wrote:The old Gunfex (venom cannon, barb strangler carnifex)

Yes, that was a little harsh. It always was a stupid thing, however, and blindingly obvious that they would remove it.

Kirika wrote:Genestealers with flesh hooks

You can still use these models, they just do not have any special effect. No argument.

Kirika wrote:Spine fist termagaunts are no longer the default cheapest termagaunts

Yep, they are no longer the most competitive option. You can still use the models. Just like your Warmachine example: there is a better option, but you do not have to use it.

It does'nt matter, everything changes so just play the game.

So, you're saying I should be EXTREMELY upset because I can't play my SM w/shuriken catapult any longer, or my tech-marine w/ graviton gun, or my eldar w/missile launcher? What about my IG officers on jetbikes? Hmmmm?!? Come on! Really! If this is all you have to worry about, you must have it made! As previously stated, JUST PLAY THE GAME!!!!!!

Wait, you mean Jervis Johnson won't come and burn down my house if I attempt to use out-dated models?!

Nurglitch wrote:Wait, you mean Jervis Johnson won't come and burn down my house if I attempt to use out-dated models?!

No that will still happen... Poor fluffy...

There's a few people in this thread who need to settle down a little and accept that other people are entitled to their opinions... Th thread title was pretty clear. If you're sick of hearing the complaints, you had the option to not open the thread.


It is frustrating when models that you've put a lot of effort and cash into are invalidated by newer rules. Yes, it happens, and people should be aware of it... but it's not like GW warn you about it going in. For a lot of newer players, it's an unpleasant surprise when a new codex comes out and contains unexpected changes.

I'm not sure I'd go as far as 'bad for business'... Sure, it may encourage some people to give up. But whilst some may dump the army because of it, others just go out and buy replacement models, or convert the invalidated model, or just keep using it.

Kirika wrote:making your old models just unplayable is just wrong and bad business sense.

I don't know about that. The new dex has already gotten me to buy a trygon, 30 gargoyles and a box of raveners. That's around $175.

It happens all the time. Orks lost several great units (cyborks, my namesake Skarboyz, a good looted tank option, the Mob Up/Check Size/Choppa rules, trukk boyz only taking wounds on a 1, real smoke launchers, tankbusta bombs on characters, etc.) between codexes, but now we have nob bikers, lootas, burna boyz all with burnas, better battlewagons, and so on. Sucks, but you have to move on. Hey, in 4 years when they redo your codex again, they might come back!

Of the 3 examples you quoted only one is illegal to field as presently modelled and I agree that it kind of sucks.

The Genestealers are fine its just that rthe f;esh hooks no longer give a bonus

The gaunts are perfectly legal, no longer ideal but legal. You now have to buy more gaunt boxes to get the more competitive option, that's exactly what GW wants you to do and is the same as your warmachine example.

Spinegaunts were never the ideal troops for me, always substandard behind the Termagaunt. Why is everyone running off and buying more whatevers, didn't you get like 1000 of each different weapon arm anyways? I know I did.

I'm not thrilled that I have to re-arm my 30 some-odd warriors again, but for the changes the new codex has made, I'll take it.

It's the evolution of the game. Is it unfortunate? Not really. Is it expected? Most definitely! Can you complain about it? Hell yeah! That's pretty much the 40k pass-time, just one step above actually playing the game!

It seems 'nids have very little to complain about, from your post. Only one of their options was invalidated, and it was the one that everyone seems to agree, should never have existed.

Just use them as "counts as" models. Get over it.

Oh, and Skinnattittar is right.

I have been playing this game for about a year and a couple months....the thing is i joined right after drop pods where relased, and since then i have seen Ironclad dreads, New Space wolves (my main army, i was delighted to get the new dex and models as my old ones well, lets just say i loved the wolves before and even more so after the new dex....Now, i have a small 1500-2000 point Tau list (this was mostly to provide models for people who need to Borrow them when needed, a broadside here, a hammerhead there, sniper drones since no other tau i know has them XD) Now im making a large nid list, maybe half the points of my Space wolves....into 4000 or so ish points. I read and played a little of the old dex, but after seeing "Competative lists" and Nidzilla i really didn't wish to play em. But with the new dex, it made into light that the nids have to work and play tricks to be fun, to me thats a challange. I now have finished, and painted three raveners, 2 hormogants, 2 warriors (one a prime, i kit bashed him to look awesome with mawloc/carnifex/extra armour options) a trygon prime, and a lictor, i have 6 more hormogaunts, 8 termagaunts, 2 zoanathropes, 2 hive gaurd, 1 hive tyrant and 1 warrior to put together......on top of that i soon will have 2 more Carnifex's, 40+ hormogaunts/termigants, another Battleforce (the new one minus the fex :( ) and from there i will see what else i need to do.



Now. As for Games Workshop making Models obsolete, i dont think so, i prefer Carnifex's to Trygons, i love the new raveners and that shiny new, and Hormogaunts ROCK any way you shake em


I just think that the old setups people havn't given a chance in a game, a Carnifex with a Heavy Venom cannon still rocks socks, i used two in a game last week and the Nob Player cryed cause he lost a squad and a half of nobs before he even got close to anything, then got eaten by ravenrs and a HT......its all in how you use whatcha got not just whatcha got

One of those 3 examples is illegal. The other 2 are fine.

GW is NOT forcing you to buy more Gaunts to be competitive. If you winning or losing a game comes down to the difference between S3 TL or S4 non-twin liked on a unit meant to die and die hard than perhaps you need to L2play as they say on WoW forums.

2nd point is I've seen some Tyranid armies in different galleries on the net that quite frankly would not be hurt aesthetically by arms being broken off. If I painted a Carnifex to GD standard I probably did it for an entry and not a table top unit so I wouldn't be bummed about it's legality. On the other hand if I only prime a model and or slap only a single color on than I have no cause to bitch about the model being ruined as it's an eyesore in the first place.

People need to get over the conspiracy that GW are out to make you buy more Termagants. The only way that MIGHT (and you can break off arms and glue on the replacements most Tyranid players have laying around) be true is if GW made the Spinefist outright disappear. It is still an option for the Termagant. Therfore they are not FORCING you to buy more bullet catchers because you are that anal about 30pts (assuming people took full broods of 30). It's not GW's fault people want to min-max.

I love this, I always was using fleshborer gaunts and now they lowered the cost of them, happy days for me.

Also was using dual talon carnies and never took flesh hooks on genestealers. always had max # of zoanthropes.

I personally love what they did with the new codex.

fuegan17 wrote:I love this, I always was using fleshborer gaunts and now they lowered the cost of them, happy days for me.

Also was using dual talon carnies and never took flesh hooks on genestealers. always had max # of zoanthropes.

I personally love what they did with the new codex.

You and most people who play Tyranids to play Tyranids. Rather than freak lists and min-maxes. I personally think the Tyranids are looking more like they're supposed to. But I really won't know until people start making more lists and armies. I'll be interested to see how many of the dreaded units actually make effective units.

It's not bad for business - all the sheep will go out and buy new models and GW get to keep selling/sell more of their old product simply by making new rules (as opposed to making new kits).

That's why they change options and create rules for units that have no miniatures - to generate income with extremely low amounts of output (ie. no miniature design/production/packaging/inventory/shipping).

It's great for business; terrible for the players, but great fopr business.

I have two words for all of you: Strangle... web

My biggest complaint is that we have to keep making new threads over and over and over again to complain about the same things over and over and over again, weeks after the codex has come out.

Welcome to Dakka Aduro.

You should wander into OT sometime. You see 8 threads bout the same thing in one days time over there.

I really do not see the problem. Unless you are playing in a hyper competitive environment just play how ever you want. If you want to make dixie cups be Killer Cans more power to ya

I understand it's annoying, but a bunch of the older players will see it as not being that much of a big deal. That's because they know of the Squats and the Lost and the Damned. Both those armies are completely gone, the codices are extremely hard to find as well.

When any new codex comes out there will usually be a few weapon swaps (with the exception of Orks, not much to change there in the basic troops something for shooting and something for smashing), it's probably best not to use a lot of glue when your attaching weapons to make them easy to remove without damaging them in case they come back. If you're really paranoid just magnetize everything

Also remember outside of most tournaments you can use the magic of counts as. (Dakka Dakka needs flashing text and sparkle text )

"This Carnifex doesn't shoot, he bashes you with the Venom Cannons which fire on impact at extremely short range cutting through armour like Scything Talons do. Why? Because he can "

Besides Carnifexes should have been magnetized, like Dreadnoughts, otherwise you're just throwing away the diversity of the kit.

And if solid snake said its ok, ITS OK!

If GW was really worried about this, they would have stopped after they screwed the UNDEAD over...fifteen years ago.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Hmm lets see.. did you go out and buy, build, mod, paint, base and even play an entire army only to have that ARMY deleted in the next edition of the rules... without EVER getting a proper Codex?

no? Guess you have it better than the few hundred Squat players out there huh?

People who cry about Squats deserve what they got.

You've had decades to get over being butthurt, yet you STILL whine about it like you got dumped at the prom.