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 Glitcha wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
No, the units in the formation, and ICs, work like units taken in any other way.

Okay I might be able to get that to work better for me. I like putting ghaz with a large unit of 'ard boyz.

Actually JimonMars is wrong on this part, there's a clause called "Boss Mob" where they're required to be deployed as a single unit, and IC cannot leave or join the unit.

The council specifically has a rule they must be together and can't leave or join other units.
The council is a lot of points however it is more durable together then if ghaz was taken solo.
Ghaz with a 2++ and 6+ fnp is nice however he will die from weight of fire. This is why the lucky stil warboss eats up the majority of atks. You also lose durability without a pain boy or Maddoc for a 5+ fnp and his extra klaw and rampage helps.
You lose the massive bonus to WS which has ghaz at ws9.
You lose the 2 extra warlord traits which gives him useful abilities like reroll to hit on his Pk or extra atks such as rage. It's a Death Star and few other stars can go head to head with it.

But ya I'd still rather be able to take ghaz seperate and cut down the points.

 Glitcha wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:
Is there a cheap way to get ghazgkul star on the table with out using the council of waagh?

I was thinking about using the waagh band formation and a CAD with ghaz as LoW.

You can take him, but he can't WAAAGH! Every turn without the council. He'll only get 1 turn of 2++ in any other configuration.

Well Zog! I was hoping I didn't need the council. Its just so points heavy. Does the council have to stay together?

Just to clarify the answer to this question the Council of Waaagh! has to stay together, the formation for the unit has the Boss Mob special rule that means the IC's cannot choose to leave the unit and must be joined together as one unit when they deploy. No splitting up the IC's amongst your other units. If we could take Ghazghkull instead of a Warboss in the Waaagh!-band detachment we would really be onto something but that's a nice thing that we can't have because... I don't know why.

Whoops, you all are right. Shows me for quoting rules for books I don't own. I decided not to upgrade the book because of this exact reason...Ghaz is just too hard to put into a game and gain his 2++ on all turns.

One possible thing I would like to try from the orkurion is 10 single deffkoptas waaaghing every turn, getting maelstrom points or just eating overwatch. Has anyone tried that?

xlDuke wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:
Is there a cheap way to get ghazgkul star on the table with out using the council of waagh?

I was thinking about using the waagh band formation and a CAD with ghaz as LoW.

You can take him, but he can't WAAAGH! Every turn without the council. He'll only get 1 turn of 2++ in any other configuration.

Well Zog! I was hoping I didn't need the council. Its just so points heavy. Does the council have to stay together?

Just to clarify the answer to this question the Council of Waaagh! has to stay together, the formation for the unit has the Boss Mob special rule that means the IC's cannot choose to leave the unit and must be joined together as one unit when they deploy. No splitting up the IC's amongst your other units. If we could take Ghazghkull instead of a Warboss in the Waaagh!-band detachment we would really be onto something but that's a nice thing that we can't have because... I don't know why.

I know that was a question asked in the faq several times but looking at similar questions I doubt it's going to change.
However hopeful faq changes that people asked are
Mob rule 6+ rolls based on the +2 waagh supplement. 7-8 has no result...hoping for auto pass or fearless until end of turn.
The waagh band and the great waagh detschment have the same special rules like wtf? The Orkorion and core army choice rules are nearly identical. Maybe GW will errata one. Doubt it
Tankbusters and nobs. Like what do that have rokkit launchers or what and how do I exchange the rokkit launcher for powerklaw
Yea I'm not sure what other faqs are gonna help us? Maybe deff dreads get gifted more atks like dreads but again I doubt it cause we are not marines
Anyone else know what possible fixes the faq for Orks can possibly have?

Warp heads getting some options, like gifts or even just the ability to take bikes. 'Nauts made into super heavy walkers with assault. Those would be simple enough to do in a FAQ. Getting access to biomancy would be amazing too...

TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
Warp heads getting some options, like gifts or even just the ability to take bikes. 'Nauts made into super heavy walkers with assault. Those would be simple enough to do in a FAQ. Getting access to biomancy would be amazing too...

those are changes in the rules not really faqs. I don't expect them to change the Ork codex. The only real codex change in all the faqs was the seperate errata that dreads receiving +2 atk however that's more inline with making all the space marine units consistent. I doubt we get super heavies or other new options. Was just trying to look for clarifications that might benefit us. There is a small chance for deff dreads get more atks but I doubt it still.

TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
Warp heads getting some options, like gifts or even just the ability to take bikes. 'Nauts made into super heavy walkers with assault. Those would be simple enough to do in a FAQ. Getting access to biomancy would be amazing too...

Dude, if wierdboys were able to get bikes that would be amazing, and I would model one up so fast...

The FAQs have been full of rule changes though. Granted, I doubt we will see much in the realm of what I posted, but I think it definitely could happen.

We got changes. Tankbustas can't use nades and bombers can't jink and bomb. What else do you want?!

Unfortunately, like koooaei points out, any changes headed our way are more likely to be for the worse than for the better. The only potential things I could see them ruling is maaaaaybe making cybork body stack with existing FNP (Mad Dok Grotsnik being the clear suspect here), maybe giving us similar dreadnought treatment for our deff dreads, and the best one is throwing us a bone and letting Ghazghkull be taken as the Warboss in all the big formations. But judging from their previous rulings, I highly doubt it.

TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
The FAQs have been full of rule changes though. Granted, I doubt we will see much in the realm of what I posted, but I think it definitely could happen.

There has not been any rules hanged outside of errata however there are people who refuse to believe they read the rules wrong and insist they were changes in the faqs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
We got changes. Tankbustas can't use nades and bombers can't jink and bomb. What else do you want?!

They can still use one Bomb per unit. Which is a big change from how people played and they are less powerful for it but still very good.
The bombers I've always played you can't drop bombs and jink. The faq most people didn't play right was jinking transports and embarked units snap shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
Unfortunately, like koooaei points out, any changes headed our way are more likely to be for the worse than for the better. The only potential things I could see them ruling is maaaaaybe making cybork body stack with existing FNP (Mad Dok Grotsnik being the clear suspect here), maybe giving us similar dreadnought treatment for our deff dreads, and the best one is throwing us a bone and letting Ghazghkull be taken as the Warboss in all the big formations. But judging from their previous rulings, I highly doubt it.

Mob rule doesnt have a 7 or 8 result so maybe we get auto pass or fearless until end of turn if they feel generous. This makes the waagh ghazkull supplment formations slightly better.

I think we'll have a really short FAQ that won't change much at all, I'm not even sure what they would include other than allowing Tankbusta Nobz to take a PK and clarifying if Meks can be taken on their own as HQs (they'll probably rule that they can't). I don't think Dreads will get more attacks or Ghazghkull being able to replace a Warboss in our detachments, they either won't address the Cybork Body thing or will confirm that it doesn't stack, anything over a 6 on Mob Rule will count as Squabble. I'm very eager to see what our FAQs include but I don't think we'll see any big changes at all.

Orks, while iconic, are no near as strong in the community as the space marine lobby, so I doubt there will be any errata. I would love to be wrong and I'll still wate for the FAQ. The question that concern me is the possibility of using the Ghaz artefacts with a CAD.

xlDuke wrote:
I think we'll have a really short FAQ that won't change much at all, I'm not even sure what they would include other than allowing Tankbusta Nobz to take a PK and clarifying if Meks can be taken on their own as HQs (they'll probably rule that they can't). I don't think Dreads will get more attacks or Ghazghkull being able to replace a Warboss in our detachments, they either won't address the Cybork Body thing or will confirm that it doesn't stack, anything over a 6 on Mob Rule will count as Squabble. I'm very eager to see what our FAQs include but I don't think we'll see any big changes at all.

Pretty much this. 7&8 on mob rule, possibly cybork, maybe +2A for walkers (which would be awesome), and probably confirmation of green tide "with opponent's permission."

Everything else will simply be "No." It will be 2 or 3 FAQs that count, and maybe a page or page and half of RTFM (i.e. No).

I've asked them several times and they have been very consistent about not balancing anything with these FAQs. It will take a far, far larger uprising (and dropping of revenue) before they would ever consider making Orks competitive.

I've been trying really hard to make the Orkurion work without the Ghaz Star, because I hate running Deathstars.

My latest attempt was something of a Failure.


I've played it three times now, and won all 3 games, but none of my opponents were running top tier lists.

There are 4 Giant Flaws in this list:
1) Derpy Mob rule. If I could use ordinary Mob rule, I'd be getting swept so very much less, and I would be shouting curses at GW 3-4 times a game.
2) I can't take enough meks, or painboys. There is nobody to eat challenges in my units of boyz, so nobs are constantly getting challenged out and killed which leaves the squad feckless, and I can't walk boyz, because there is nothing to keep the alive.
3) The Challenge requirement on the Warboss is dumb. The Avatar isn't all that special, but, a warboss being forced to challenge him is stupid. I had 3 other characters in that combat, but the Warboss had to accept the challenge.
4) Kill points. I've got a million of them. I could reduce that somewhat by increasing unit sizes, but I don't think that will put me in a position to win kill points because the required part of the Orcurion demands so many damn units.

If I happen to Roll a 1 for my Warlord Trait, I will absolutely dominated opponents with this list, but short of that I'm starting to feel like it just can't be done without a ghazstar.

Did you have much use out of every turn WAAAGH! and HoWs?

The Ghazcurion without Ghaz is complete crap. Expensive, next to no staying ability, no mobility, no shooting. Orks need Fearless/high leadership, FNP, any save, S4 or even all together.

Sorry to go completely off topic (especially with all the anti-Ghaz-curion posts) but:

I was toying with the idea of the alpha strike stormboyz that can pull off a first turn charge with the ability to waaagh! every turn including the first given off by the Ghaz-curion and came noticed something:
Trukk boyz can also get off a first turn charge! 6" (from trukk moving) + 6" (disembark) + 3.5" (run) + 7" charge = 22.5".
Now, you may think to yourself, 22/5 inches is exactly 1.5 inches away from being viable, but, the reroll to the charge from 'ere we go was not included, nor was the fact that deployment goes from: the centre of mass of the model, allowing for ~ 2" if you are being TFG.
What this means, however, is that for 1750 points, you can have:
- a Waaagh! band with kitted out Warboss and 6 squads of 'ard trukk boyz with pk/bp nobz (except the WB squad)
- Da Vulcha Skwad with Zagstruk and 3 units of 10 stormboyz and Pk/bp nobz.

Anyway, I was wondering if I was just being mad or eccentric, but if you have first turn against most armies, you can have ~ 5 - 9 pks in there face before they can even react.
Is this in anyway good, or does it just make me TFG violating RAW and having a army to show for it?
Also: am I the only one that wishes that Zagstruk had a Warboss statline or something? (actually, this but for all of the special characters)

 koooaei wrote:
Did you have much use out of every turn WAAAGH! and HoWs?

My Warboss never lived passed turn 3, but I did use 3 turns of WAAAGH in all 3 games.

The HoW, despite seeming undwhelming came up huge in one of the games. I won a game vs Eldar on the back of HOW. He had a bunch of Striking Scorpions. Those things murder Orks, but HoW can take care of business. It also did some good against Fire Dragons.

 GeraldFordForever wrote:
I was toying with the idea of the alpha strike stormboyz that can pull off a first turn charge with the ability to waaagh! every turn including the first given off by the Ghaz-curion and came noticed something:
Trukk boyz can also get off a first turn charge! 6" (from trukk moving) + 6" (disembark) + 3.5" (run) + 7" charge = 22.5".
Now, you may think to yourself, 22/5 inches is exactly 1.5 inches away from being viable, but, the reroll to the charge from 'ere we go was not included, nor was the fact that deployment goes from: the centre of mass of the model, allowing for ~ 2" if you are being TFG.
What this means, however, is that for 1750 points, you can have:
- a Waaagh! band with kitted out Warboss and 6 squads of 'ard trukk boyz with pk/bp nobz (except the WB squad)
- Da Vulcha Skwad with Zagstruk and 3 units of 10 stormboyz and Pk/bp nobz.

Yeah, I've been pulling of T1 charges with Trukk Boyz here and there. Da Vulcha Skwad doesn't work, because it must deep strike. When you stumble on something good like that you've always got to remember GW hates Orks and doesn't give them good rules.

I do have plans to try the Stormboy variation as well as a Bikestar variation.

 GeraldFordForever wrote:
Sorry to go completely off topic (especially with all the anti-Ghaz-curion posts) but:

I was toying with the idea of the alpha strike stormboyz that can pull off a first turn charge with the ability to waaagh! every turn including the first given off by the Ghaz-curion and came noticed something:
Trukk boyz can also get off a first turn charge! 6" (from trukk moving) + 6" (disembark) + 3.5" (run) + 7" charge = 22.5".
Now, you may think to yourself, 22/5 inches is exactly 1.5 inches away from being viable, but, the reroll to the charge from 'ere we go was not included, nor was the fact that deployment goes from: the centre of mass of the model, allowing for ~ 2" if you are being TFG.
What this means, however, is that for 1750 points, you can have:
- a Waaagh! band with kitted out Warboss and 6 squads of 'ard trukk boyz with pk/bp nobz (except the WB squad)
- Da Vulcha Skwad with Zagstruk and 3 units of 10 stormboyz and Pk/bp nobz.

Anyway, I was wondering if I was just being mad or eccentric, but if you have first turn against most armies, you can have ~ 5 - 9 pks in there face before they can even react.
Is this in anyway good, or does it just make me TFG violating RAW and having a army to show for it?
Also: am I the only one that wishes that Zagstruk had a Warboss statline or something? (actually, this but for all of the special characters)

I also thought about stormboyz. But you'll need cad for fortifications otherwise you have no chance of winning if you don't get 1-st turn.

tag8833 wrote:

Yeah, I've been pulling of T1 charges with Trukk Boyz here and there. Da Vulcha Skwad doesn't work, because it must deep strike. When you stumble on something good like that you've always got to remember GW hates Orks and doesn't give them good rules.

I do have plans to try the Stormboy variation as well as a Bikestar variation.

I was planning on just deploying Da Vulcha Skwad on foot, yeah, it doesn't capitalise on the accurate DS, but I'd rather take a chance at first turn charges personally.

How do you find the Trukk boyz work/ how your opponent reacts when they get the first turn charge?
It seems like a pretty nice trick for a one trick army

<rant>
Also:
If you put the Ghaz-council in a BW and did a ~3" 'centre of mass deployment' + 6" move + 6" deploy + 3.5" run + 7" charge you could have a first turn charging deathstar! Take that wulfen
Yeah, this doesn't make it points effective, but the look on your opponents face when >25 pk attacks hit him on the first turn.
</rant>

EDIT:

 koooaei wrote:


I also thought about stormboyz. But you'll need cad for fortifications otherwise you have no chance of winning if you don't get 1-st turn.

That's a great point. What if you put a bastion or two with the top layer filled with stormboyz? That sounds pretty effective and gives you some staying power.

 GeraldFordForever wrote:
I was planning on just deploying Da Vulcha Skwad on foot, yeah, it doesn't capitalise on the accurate DS, but I'd rather take a chance at first turn charges personally.

You can't. It's against the rules. That formation MUST deep strike. That is why it sucks. If you could deploy it, it would be decent.

 GeraldFordForever wrote:
How do you find the Trukk boyz work/ how your opponent reacts when they get the first turn charge?

Eh. If my opponent knows what he can pick which units get charged and even deny me the charge if he wants. It is most useful against infiltrators, or units that move toward me on their 1st turn. Swooping Hawks have been 1st turn charging ever since the new Eldar codex dropped. Genestealer cult can 1st turn charge. There isn't really any magic here. Its not bad, but it isn't a panacea.

 GeraldFordForever wrote:
If you put the Ghaz-council in a BW and did a ~3" 'centre of mass deployment' + 6" move + 6" deploy + 3.5" run + 7" charge you could have a first turn charging deathstar! Take that wulfen

wulfen will beat the ever living bejesus out of a Council of the Waaaaaagh. Ghaz himself might survive, but the rest of the council will die to even a really small squad of Wolfen. You've got to remember that Ghaz, being your warlord, must always issue and accept challenges. That means he can only tank the attacks of the 1 character wolfen, and the other wulfen with their massive amounts of S7+ AP:2 attacks will make short work of the rest of the council.

 GeraldFordForever wrote:
3" 'centre of mass deployment'

is now illegal per FAQ.

Technically you can deploy that way, but you can't use rotation to gain any distance. If you max out the vehicles move, it will remain sideways after movement.

 GeraldFordForever wrote:

 koooaei wrote:


I also thought about stormboyz. But you'll need cad for fortifications otherwise you have no chance of winning if you don't get 1-st turn.

That's a great point. What if you put a bastion or two with the top layer filled with stormboyz? That sounds pretty effective and gives you some staying power.

I'd avoid extra dt tests though. Was thinking more about vsg or aegis.

So call me nuts but I want to try a list with three 'orkanauts (I know, I know...) and I was hoping someone could offer some pointers. I'm thinking about either using the Gorkanaut Krushin' Krew for the meagre bonuses the formation offers or two Gorkanauts and one Morkanaut for the KFF coverage. Personally I think Gorkanauts are better but if I'm running multiple hunk o' junks perhaps the 5++ for all three will make a big difference. Which do you think would be best/least bad?

Other than these walkers not being great units I have the problem of what else to take to support them. Perhaps some fire support in Gunwagons? Greentide for more madness? More Walkers? Comments much appreciated

Gorkanauts are good in the dread mob formation since they get ere we go and can move run and charge each turn. However that's just two units.

gungo wrote:
Gorkanauts are good in the dread mob formation since they get ere we go and can move run and charge each turn. However that's just two units.

You can only charge after running on the turn you declare your WAAAAAGH.

IMO, the best part of Dread mob is the HOW, and being able to reroll 1 dice when you charge. Most of the Time I'd rather shoot than run.

I've tried the Dread Mob a couple of times already and it's great fun, definitely something I'll try again. The one-dice re-roll for charge ranges and HoW is very useful but it feels like the Killa Kans are a hefty tax to pay - anyway this time I'm looking for something a little different.

If you feel like throwing points to the wind, you can try out morgrok's boss boys. You take three big meks, a warboss, and a ML 2 wierdboy. One mek must be the warlord, but he gets the ability to have D3 units outflank with acute senses. You can take this with the Krushin' Krew for some possible fun times.

If you do this, please take a picture of your opponent's face when he sees your gorkanauts outflanking in his backfield.