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Greenblood wrote:

My opponent was a DA player with lots of deathwing terminators and it was pretty much the only thing on the table that could reliably kill a terminator or two per turn, where Badrukk, rokkits and assorted KMBs regularly failed to get past the combination of storm shields, dense terrain and inner circle. I might have lost the game if I had brought da boomer or a kannonwagon instead.

Jidmah Please elaborate on this game been struggling against DA lately

Well, essentially I had the zagzap wagon parked on an backfield objective behind dense terrain in a way to shield off that corner from deep strikes and just had it shooting at terminators every turn. It doesn't care for -1 to hit and every turn I either had one shot going to 9+ strength for mortal wounds or he failed his 4+ save and one terminator splatted. The strength roll really doesn't matter a lot since you wound them on 4+ no matter what. When he charged some bikers into them to shut it off, I killed one in overwatch and another two by shooting into combat. It exploded to a missile launcher in T4, but it actually managed to make back its points by killing 3 deathwing terminators, a hellblaster and 3 bikes.

The game was very much uphill though, boyz have almost no chance of shifting those two-man command squads off objectives and I went full risk by throwing away my wartrike to assassinate his warlord talon master in T2, yielding me 10VP. The game ended 37 to 33 for me, with neither player really scoring anything noteworthy and me being tabled except for a single MAN with killsaws.

It was just an incursion game with me bringing a silly list, so a full battle report probably wouldn't help anyone in their games

The secret to beating deathwing is probably just having more boyz than they can kill on their objectives, a unit of trukk boyz flipped an objective for a single turn and scored me 15+3VP from while denying my opponent at 10VP - despite me failing morale 2 terminators couldn't wipe 10 boyz without help.
MANz with hit 'em harder also worked well, a deff dread got lucky and wiped 3 with the help of the dreaded death machine stratagem.


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 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I see. yet making an entire thread to ask a tiny question seemed pretty wasteful of space when i already had a string of questions related to orks.

Dems the rules. Helps keep the thread focused. Also, I know you're a new player and all, but a lot of it can be searched by looking online, giving a look at the FAQ's or just taking a second look-through in the rulebook. Ideally before you post stuff here you know the basic rules already regarding units so that way most of the thread isn't basically us regurgitating how the game works rather than specifically talking about using Ork units.

In general, I have no problem with asking ork-related rules questions in here, especially since YMDC often quite toxic when it comes to ork related queries. I'd rather have some questions in here than yet another player driven away from this community by certain poster's RAW bs or someone with irrational hate for orks going off on them.

That said, this thread is not supposed to be a replacement for reading the rules. Anything that is not directly related to orks, like the question about "what is the wound characteristic" should definitely go in YMDC - and creating a thread for simple questions is perfectly fine - that's why there is a dedicated forum to this.

 The Warp Forge wrote:
Thinking of jumping back into my Orks after I've done a few projects (took a break about 7th-8th ed. with them). Should I get Saga of the Beast or just wait out for the new codex?

It's kinda tough to say since GW's schedule is all backlogged due to COVID and I don't think we'll have as many rapidfire releases as we did back before the pandemic hit. I'd say for the time being it's worth it, simply because we at least know for certain that a new codex for Orks aren't coming out for the first few months as they try to catch up with their roadmap for 2021.


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Beardedragon wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
I see. yet making an entire thread to ask a tiny question seemed pretty wasteful of space when i already had a string of questions related to orks.

Dems the rules. Helps keep the thread focused. Also, I know you're a new player and all, but a lot of it can be searched by looking online, giving a look at the FAQ's or just taking a second look-through in the rulebook. Ideally before you post stuff here you know the basic rules already regarding units so that way most of the thread isn't basically us regurgitating how the game works rather than specifically talking about using Ork units.

I assumed i should ask questions about orks if there are things I was uncertain of when it came to orks. I like to ask away when i get a new unit, in this case the Big mek in mega armor since i got a MANZ package, how the tellyport blasta actually worked. But you are right the tankbusta question was not meant to be here, but at the same time i didnt think anyone really got bothered by something so trivial so i asked away still.

This game is very word heavy, with wording that often leave people who are not english native speakers, like myself, to be uncertain of some rules, hence why i come here, because i dont want to start up a game and assume how my unit works, only to find out i fethed it up.

Like someone did earlier assuming the Gorkanaut/Morkanaut got +3 extra hits with every exploding Goff 6's where it only got 1, because its an extra hit, not an attack. Thats a pretty massive mistake to make. Its problems like that i try to avoid because i convene with the eldars of Dakka Dakka Ork thread to understand my army properly. Believe it or not, but I dont 100% understand everything i read when its worded as terribly as it often is by GW. So i ask, i ask about the tellyport blasta because i didnt understand fully whether this was a useful weapon or not, and i asked about visions in the smoke.

Many of my fellow players where im from, also tend to be confused about the rules (not all the rules, but there are some) because thats what happens, when the company making the rules, write the rules in ways that can often be interpreted several different ways, but also doesnt provide the rules in my own native language.

And i do read the rules, i have read all of it. Like when i asked if my Waaagh Banner could give a gork a +1 to hit if the banner guy was stationed inside of the gork, because the wording made me confused about embarked versus not being embarked was written weirdly.

As a last thing, i only really ask questions about units ive just acquired or think about acquiring, which has a bit of a dodgy explanation, that, in case i misinterpret the wording, can directly alter the game in my favor. Like the tellyport blasta or grots for a mek Gun. Im not really trying to be annoying, im trying to play better.

No problem, GW's writing is far from being clear at the best of times, so I can only imagine how much more annoying it must be for someone that doesn't have it as their native language. It's just to help focus your questions into Ork specific ones, which I'm pretty sure most people, like Jidmah, don't mind answering.

 Tomsug wrote:

Keramory wrote:
I made a comment about this before, but this time I added a stompa, morka and gorka to a Wartrike rush.

It's honestly the most hilarious thing I've done in 40k in a long time. Everyone's reactions are always gold. Having giant robots charge in T1 is frightening and if you haven't done it yet, I would strongly encourage risking losing a game for having an absolute blast. Games are super quick one way or another, which is also a huge plus.

Only gripe is I only own one wartrike, making the aura difficult to hit everything. One day I'll get 2...

Wht was your list? I remeber your note well and also Jidmah wrote there about his troubles againts T1 charging Gorkonaut

Oh I didn't know the FW model now lets vehicles charge now. That's good to know!

As for the list I dont have the exacts as I edit battlescribe like a madman every day, honestly it was just shaft to fill in the little points I had left.

to answer, yeah if anyone has a brain or is thinking about your deployment and know you're going to advance and charge... they're going to add chaft in the way. Some do, some don't. Still fun regardless though. Having to deal with that in your face before you can do anything makes a hilarious reaction... and honestly that's what I'm mostly about when playing.

I'll tell you whats not fun though. I built 10 flashgitz and wanted to live a ork artillery fantasy with them, ghaz, badrukk and 15 lootas for about 1k points. Went second and only had Ghaz left before my t1. It's maddening that they die so easily without grots.

Have anyone tried the idea of Flash Gitz inside a Squiggoth for the ability to move around, yet retain the +4 to hit with the Howdah! ability?

If i actually had the units i would definitly give it a try.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, I've just finished a game where a zagzap gun wagon completely murdered a unit of ravenwing bikers that were trying to lock it in combat

Seems the Zagzap was fun. Was it also useful? Or just for fun?

I ran it just for fun, but it actually was really good. My opponent was a DA player with lots of deathwing terminators and it was pretty much the only thing on the table that could reliably kill a terminator or two per turn, where Badrukk, rokkits and assorted KMBs regularly failed to get past the combination of storm shields, dense terrain and inner circle. I might have lost the game if I had brought da boomer or a kannonwagon instead.

Im guessing you rolled quite well with the Zagzap vs Deathwing Terminators and the other player just rolled like ass? Automatically hitting is nice (all Zzapguns should like they used to). but wounding at best on 4s vs Inner Circle and then them having a 3++ or 5++ with a 5+++ (if he took the Banner) is pretty unreliable. I know you used it just for fun but I think maybe you just had Mork on your side.


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Keramory wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:

Keramory wrote:
I made a comment about this before, but this time I added a stompa, morka and gorka to a Wartrike rush.

It's honestly the most hilarious thing I've done in 40k in a long time. Everyone's reactions are always gold. Having giant robots charge in T1 is frightening and if you haven't done it yet, I would strongly encourage risking losing a game for having an absolute blast. Games are super quick one way or another, which is also a huge plus.

Only gripe is I only own one wartrike, making the aura difficult to hit everything. One day I'll get 2...

Wht was your list? I remeber your note well and also Jidmah wrote there about his troubles againts T1 charging Gorkonaut

Oh I didn't know the FW model now lets vehicles charge now. That's good to know!

As for the list I dont have the exacts as I edit battlescribe like a madman every day, honestly it was just shaft to fill in the little points I had left.

to answer, yeah if anyone has a brain or is thinking about your deployment and know you're going to advance and charge... they're going to add chaft in the way. Some do, some don't. Still fun regardless though. Having to deal with that in your face before you can do anything makes a hilarious reaction... and honestly that's what I'm mostly about when playing.

I'll tell you whats not fun though. I built 10 flashgitz and wanted to live a ork artillery fantasy with them, ghaz, badrukk and 15 lootas for about 1k points. Went second and only had Ghaz left before my t1. It's maddening that they die so easily without grots.

Yeah the Deffkilla Wartrike is pretty much obsolete due to the return of the new and improved Biker Boss. Unless you only have the DKWT, there is no reason to ever take him over the Biker Boss.


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Beardedragon wrote:
Have anyone tried the idea of Flash Gitz inside a Squiggoth for the ability to move around, yet retain the +4 to hit with the Howdah! ability?

If i actually had the units i would definitly give it a try.

I have in 8th, but I havent in 9th. I think Flashgitz are a bit too expensive. 32ppm for basically a Nob with a fancy gun. They are successful in a Marine heavy meta but I can see that trend shifting if DG become super popular and meta shaking. Having that D2 negated to D1 is gonna be a kick in the shrooms, even more so vs Blightlord Terminators and Possessed. They should be 26-28ppm in my opinion. A squiggoth is also pretty costly and doesnt do much in CC (4 str8 AP3 D6 damage attacks arent something to right home about for 190pts).

I would probably go for a Big Trakk instead, forgo the accuracy for movement and the chance to get Obscuring, it isnt also a huge pts sink but granted the BT wastes a HS slot.

 deffrekka wrote:
Im guessing you rolled quite well with the Zagzap vs Deathwing Terminators and the other player just rolled like ass? Automatically hitting is nice (all Zzapguns should like they used to). but wounding at best on 4s vs Inner Circle and then them having a 3++ or 5++ with a 5+++ (if he took the Banner) is pretty unreliable. I know you used it just for fun but I think maybe you just had Mork on your side.

First of all, storm shields are 4++, not 3++ and second on a roll of 9+ for strength it doesn't care for either invulnerable saves nor inner circle and just outright kills a terminator. Getting one 9+ out of the two shots is a ~50% chance.
The issue with that army is not the big blocks of terminator with support characters behind them, but the units of 2 command squad terminators with a single stormshield sitting on objectives.

Beardedragon wrote:
Have anyone tried the idea of Flash Gitz inside a Squiggoth for the ability to move around, yet retain the +4 to hit with the Howdah! ability?

If i actually had the units i would definitly give it a try.

Hi, Flash Gitz in a Trukk worked well pre the latest points change, using Loot It to give them a 3+ Sv when the Trukk was destroyed, and using Ammo Runtz to take the wounds. With their points increase they were considered too expensive. Never tried them in a Squiggoth - let me know how it goes :-)

There was a dude makes pretty sucess on some us tournament with 3 garg squiggogs and smashagun spam list.

Roll back in this thread to aprox October 2020.

Moriarty wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Have anyone tried the idea of Flash Gitz inside a Squiggoth for the ability to move around, yet retain the +4 to hit with the Howdah! ability?

If i actually had the units i would definitly give it a try.

Hi, Flash Gitz in a Trukk worked well pre the latest points change, using Loot It to give them a 3+ Sv when the Trukk was destroyed, and using Ammo Runtz to take the wounds. With their points increase they were considered too expensive. Never tried them in a Squiggoth - let me know how it goes :-)

Honestly, I tried to the "Loot it!" stratagem on several separate occasions now and the only time I felt it was worth spending a CP was when I gave Badrukk a 2+ save that allowed him to tie down a bunch of intercessors for multiple turns.

 Jidmah wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
Im guessing you rolled quite well with the Zagzap vs Deathwing Terminators and the other player just rolled like ass? Automatically hitting is nice (all Zzapguns should like they used to). but wounding at best on 4s vs Inner Circle and then them having a 3++ or 5++ with a 5+++ (if he took the Banner) is pretty unreliable. I know you used it just for fun but I think maybe you just had Mork on your side.

First of all, storm shields are 4++, not 3++ and second on a roll of 9+ for strength it doesn't care for either invulnerable saves nor inner circle and just outright kills a terminator. Getting one 9+ out of the two shots is a ~50% chance. The issue with that army is not the big blocks of terminator with support characters behind them, but the units of 2 command squad terminators with a single stormshield sitting on objectives.

Sorry my mistake! I was sleepy when typing that! they can still get to a 3+ when in cover and armed with Stormshields though vs the Zagzap. Its not a weapon I would rely on, especially vs Deathwing who have access to a 5+++ and can just bring them back with a Chief Apothecary as per usual, and they tend to deepstrike in with the ravenna stratagem. Luckily they no longer have their shoot twice stratagem on arrival anymore.

No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

 Jidmah wrote:
No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

Making your Deathwing Terminators/Knights more durable is always worth it. Keeping Terminators on camping duty is a poor way to utilise them. I play Dark Angels and have been a huge Death/Raven/Dread/Ironwing fan for ages. There are better units to use for that role, Deathwing should be striking for the heart and claiming the midfield or rear. Deathwing are already one of the most durable Terminators in the game and capitalising on that with a negative to hit (easy for Dark Angels) and a 5+++ will make them a tough nut to crack. The problem Deathwing/Ravenwing players have is board control, they will always be outnumbered but luckily as Spacemarines they have ample ways of getting Obsec which alleviates some of that weakness. Hiding a 2 man Command Squad behind some Obscuring should be pretty damn easy so most of the time they shouldnt be shot at on home objectives unless your group has sparse terrain to play with.

Really all Zzapguns should automatically hit. They used to. Again its another Kustom Job that should just be standard (minus the MWs on a 9+). Who takes Zzapguns now? Same with Lobbas and Kannons. Since Big Gunz went the way of the Dodo and the nerf to Zzapguns they just arent used and I have this same argument with standard Killkannons (You only take one if you make it Da Boomer.). There is just better versions of these stock types of guns out there, Smashaguns>Zzapguns - Supakannons>Killkannons - Rokkis>Kannons.

I was thinking the Squiggoth specifically because you can actually move the thing, be in combat even, and still be allowed to shoot with your Lootas or flash gitz sitting on top of the squiggoth unhindered.

Also if im not mistaken, you could cast visions in the smoke on the squiggoth and the FlashGitz inside would also be buffed, given the Howdah ability says: Any other restrictions or modifiers that apply to this model also apply to models embarked upon it.

Meaning you can actually move your flash gitz around and still shoot, you can be in combat with the squiggoth and still shoot, you can buff them with + reroll failed hit rolls with visions in the smoke as i understand it. A guy pointed this out to me, and i thought: Huh, thats actually pretty cool that you can buff the guys inside the transport where you cant with anyone else.

Thats why i thought squiggoth more than trukks

Couple of things:

1) Visions is tied to the VEHICLE keyword, which a squiggoth is not.

2) It's not a hit modifier, so it doesn't pass to the units inside.

Also, I did this big boy finally yesterday.

It doesn't have highlights yet, but I'm really happy with how it's turning out so far.

tulun wrote:
Couple of things:

1) Visions is tied to the VEHICLE keyword, which a squiggoth is not.

2) It's not a hit modifier, so it doesn't pass to the units inside.

oh right i knew that, not sure why i forgot the squiggoth werent a vehicle. I got carried away by the possibilities and forgot basic info it seem.

But any other things that can otherwise buff the squiggoth with hit modifiers, would be able to buff them. What ever buffs they may be i guess. that over all seemed interesting. Ive never tried freebootas so im assuming the +1 to hit from their trait would reach these guys sitting inside a squiggoth then.

Also due to my english skills i understood "modifiers" as all given buffs you could give the vehicle, not just +1 or -1 hits. that does put a damper on the possibilities.

 deffrekka wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

Making your Deathwing Terminators/Knights more durable is always worth it. Keeping Terminators on camping duty is a poor way to utilise them. I play Dark Angels and have been a huge Death/Raven/Dread/Ironwing fan for ages. There are better units to use for that role, Deathwing should be striking for the heart and claiming the midfield or rear. Deathwing are already one of the most durable Terminators in the game and capitalising on that with a negative to hit (easy for Dark Angels) and a 5+++ will make them a tough nut to crack. The problem Deathwing/Ravenwing players have is board control, they will always be outnumbered but luckily as Spacemarines they have ample ways of getting Obsec which alleviates some of that weakness. Hiding a 2 man Command Squad behind some Obscuring should be pretty damn easy so most of the time they shouldnt be shot at on home objectives unless your group has sparse terrain to play with.

Sorry, but have you played against a recent DA lists? Most bring no troops at all and just spam the entire table full of 3+ wound models, both deathwing and ravenwing. There is no point in wasting 100 points on an ancient or an apothecary that can potentially be sniped when you can just have another three terminators for the same costs.

Those command squads cost 80 points, as much as a unit of boyz, have 6 wounds, a stormshield, inner circle and a pair of lightning claws. They are great objective campers, and unless they fudge their rolls, they easily can take down most things trying to take an objective from them. Unless you kill them, they will just keep scoring points until you lose - which is quite doable, since most "home objectives" are just 2-4" from the edge of their deployment zone.

By obscuring all objectives instead of using a healthy mix of dense cover, obscuring and light cover obstacles, you just set yourself up to get steam-rolled by melee marines.

Honestly, I tried to the "Loot it!" stratagem on several separate occasions now and the only time I felt it was worth spending a CP was when I gave Badrukk a 2+ save that allowed him to tie down a bunch of intercessors for multiple turns.

Yeah, unfortunately, it's a very, VERY situational strat that often doesn't make enough of a difference for most units by the time their transports are popped. For it to be worth what it is now, they would have to make it so a unit gets their armour save improved to a 4+ if they had less than a 4+ save and for units with a 4+ save or better, they add +1 to their save characteristic. Now you don't have to use it only on Nobz or Flash Gitz, as other units like boyz or Tankbustas actually can have a higher chance of surviving out in the open when their transport inevitably dies. Another interesting mechanic would be allowing a unit to target a friendly or enemy vehicle unit within 3" at the end of the movement phase, for 1CP if its your own vehicle and 2CP for an enemy, you reduce the targeted vehicles save characteristic by 1 (to a minimum of 6+) but your unit gets the same effect as what I mentioned above. You would only be able to do this once per vehicle in each game, but it would make it more of a defensive/offensive strat that we could consistently use in most games compared to what we have now.

Also, I did this big boy finally yesterday.

It doesn't have highlights yet, but I'm really happy with how it's turning out so far.

Great job so far! Love Artel W's work. The Iron Boss is basically our "not-ghazghkull" model until his plastic remake was released. I'm waiting on their Meganob equivalents to arrive in the mail now.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

Making your Deathwing Terminators/Knights more durable is always worth it. Keeping Terminators on camping duty is a poor way to utilise them. I play Dark Angels and have been a huge Death/Raven/Dread/Ironwing fan for ages. There are better units to use for that role, Deathwing should be striking for the heart and claiming the midfield or rear. Deathwing are already one of the most durable Terminators in the game and capitalising on that with a negative to hit (easy for Dark Angels) and a 5+++ will make them a tough nut to crack. The problem Deathwing/Ravenwing players have is board control, they will always be outnumbered but luckily as Spacemarines they have ample ways of getting Obsec which alleviates some of that weakness. Hiding a 2 man Command Squad behind some Obscuring should be pretty damn easy so most of the time they shouldnt be shot at on home objectives unless your group has sparse terrain to play with.

Sorry, but have you played against a recent DA lists? Most bring no troops at all and just spam the entire table full of 3+ wound models, both deathwing and ravenwing. There is no point in wasting 100 points on an ancient or an apothecary that can potentially be sniped when you can just have another three terminators for the same costs.

Those command squads cost 80 points, as much as a unit of boyz, have 6 wounds, a stormshield, inner circle and a pair of lightning claws. They are great objective campers, and unless they fudge their rolls, they easily can take down most things trying to take an objective from them. Unless you kill them, they will just keep scoring points until you lose - which is quite doable, since most "home objectives" are just 2-4" from the edge of their deployment zone.

By obscuring all objectives instead of using a healthy mix of dense cover, obscuring and light cover obstacles, you just set yourself up to get steam-rolled by melee marines.

This. Between stuff like Rites of War and other shenanigans, SM legit don't need troops compared to a lot of other armies to contest objectives effectively. They either have Obsec on demand or will literally grind you out of there so you don't have the numbers to contest.

 Jidmah wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
No one will put a banner or an apothecary next to those objective campers, as it would defeat the whole purpose of bringing them in the first place.

Making your Deathwing Terminators/Knights more durable is always worth it. Keeping Terminators on camping duty is a poor way to utilise them. I play Dark Angels and have been a huge Death/Raven/Dread/Ironwing fan for ages. There are better units to use for that role, Deathwing should be striking for the heart and claiming the midfield or rear. Deathwing are already one of the most durable Terminators in the game and capitalising on that with a negative to hit (easy for Dark Angels) and a 5+++ will make them a tough nut to crack. The problem Deathwing/Ravenwing players have is board control, they will always be outnumbered but luckily as Spacemarines they have ample ways of getting Obsec which alleviates some of that weakness. Hiding a 2 man Command Squad behind some Obscuring should be pretty damn easy so most of the time they shouldnt be shot at on home objectives unless your group has sparse terrain to play with.

Sorry, but have you played against a recent DA lists? Most bring no troops at all and just spam the entire table full of 3+ wound models, both deathwing and ravenwing. There is no point in wasting 100 points on an ancient or an apothecary that can potentially be sniped when you can just have another three terminators for the same costs.

Those command squads cost 80 points, as much as a unit of boyz, have 6 wounds, a stormshield, inner circle and a pair of lightning claws. They are great objective campers, and unless they fudge their rolls, they easily can take down most things trying to take an objective from them. Unless you kill them, they will just keep scoring points until you lose - which is quite doable, since most "home objectives" are just 2-4" from the edge of their deployment zone.

By obscuring all objectives instead of using a healthy mix of dense cover, obscuring and light cover obstacles, you just set yourself up to get steam-rolled by melee marines.

Being in Tier 4 and 3 for the most of the Pandemic I doubt most of the UK has had games in, I havent played since August and I wouldnt if I could anyway as I wouldnt want to put people and their families at risk for a 2-3hr game that I can wait numerous months without. Reading all Codexes, forums and reviews plus watching excessive amount of Batreps is pretty much the only window I have into the meta right now. You might be lucky to have a game or two, over here Im probably looking at Summer time if that and thats without a good portion of LGS going down which they have been.

Any character can be potentially be sniped so the argument can be made about anyone, Painboyz, Big Meks, Warbosses etc. They have a larger chance of dying to any character targetting fire than any Deathwing Terminator character who are one of the most durable infantry characters in the game due to inner circle. A Ravenwing/Deathwing Chief Apothecary is always good. Getting a potential 5 models back, healing any Terminator or Biker up to full in addition and providing a 6+++ base. Itd be silly not to include a Chief Apothecary in ANY Space Marine list.

Your PC must be radiating quite some heat if playing TTS puts your family at risk

The only person outside of my family I see regularly happens to be a DA player, so I'm quite versed on that specific topic. Thing is, a Death Wing character costs 100 points, has only two more wound than a regular terminator and essentially provides additional wounds for a unit. Additional terminators do the very same thing, but also increase offense, footprint and model count. They also allow you to be in multiple places at once, while a character has to stay near another unit.

In my last game, I wiped out the big death wing squad in a single turn, an apothecary or ancient would have been a huge waste of points.

Look, Liam Hacket actually went third with three SAGs in his list:
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-queensland-masters-and-end-of-year-thoughts/

 Jidmah wrote:
Look, Liam Hacket actually went third with three SAGs in his list:
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-queensland-masters-and-end-of-year-thoughts/

That mad lad list took 3rd? Good man. I posted his list earlier, I didn't realize he did that well.

To be fair, Aussie land is a weird meta and Liam is a really good player. I've wondered how a list like this pilots in more casual games. Being able to take While We Stand on the SAGs is interesting.

That was Liam Hacket? That gives the list bigger meaning.

Does anybody has serious info how does he used it? I can imagine about zilion combinations of what and how and why put in the trukks...

Seems to be really interesting....

Appendix:

I would do it so - put the SAG and MANz in trukks and bustas in tellyport. Drive the trukks to objectives and either bully the enmies with double killsaw manz or bully them with 60” range due the Look out sir invulnarable SAG. MANz can gain impresive save via loot it and the grot oiler will eat the damage when trukk is destroid. In any way, I have a durable obsec 6++ infantry on objective.

Tankbustass will drop in T2 in right position to kill the big bastard you don' t like.

Or does he march the MANz with warboss and give a ride to SAGs and Bustas?

Scrapjets and the rest of infantry is clear I suppose.


The fact is that I have a couple of his lists in my files. And they are mostly very uncovencional. Like 312 grots + 3xSAG + Ghaz on Orktober 2019 or 2x10MANz + 10 TB + 2xSAG and some characters and 60 grots on Wintercon 2018?

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 Tomsug wrote:
That was Liam Hacket? That gives the list bigger meaning.

Does anybody has serious info how does he used it? I can imagine about zilion combinations of what and how and why put in the trukks...

Seems to be really interesting....

Appendix:

I would do it so - put the SAG and MANz in trukks and bustas in tellyport. Drive the trukks to objectives and either bully the enmies with double killsaw manz or bully them with 60” range due the Look out sir invulnarable SAG. MANz can gain impresive save via loot it and the grot oiler will eat the damage when trukk is destroid. In any way, I have a durable obsec 6++ infantry on objective.

Tankbustass will drop in T2 in right position to kill the big bastard you don' t like.

Or does he march the MANz with warboss and give a ride to SAGs and Bustas?

Scrapjets and the rest of infantry is clear I suppose.


The fact is that I have a couple of his lists in my files. And they are mostly very uncovencional. Like 312 grots + 3xSAG + Ghaz on Orktober 2019 or 2x10MANz + 10 TB + 2xSAG and some characters and 60 grots on Wintercon 2018?

Manz with loot it ? Since when Tomsug ? Did I miss something! (“Can’t get more than 2+“)

 addnid wrote:


Manz with loot it ? Since when Tomsug ? Did I miss something! (“Can’t get more than 2+“)

Yes, you can' t get better than 2+ but it can be stucked with the ap so you can still have 2+ againts ap -1. Or not? I don' t use so maybe I' m wrong....

 Tomsug wrote:

 addnid wrote:


Manz with loot it ? Since when Tomsug ? Did I miss something! (“Can’t get more than 2+“)

Yes, you can' t get better than 2+ but it can be stucked with the ap so you can still have 2+ againts ap -1. Or not? I don' t use so maybe I' m wrong....

From loot it:
"Improve the Save characteristic of that infantry unit by 1 (e.g. a Save characteristic of 6+ will become a Save characteristic of 5+), to a maximum of 2+."

So no effect on MANz, as I recall at release it could be used on them to give 1+ (which through rules sorcery makes it effectively 2++), so they changed it. Would be better if they had changed it to +1 on saving throw result, which may yet happen given how storm shields have changed.

Yeah if it added +1 to the saving throw you could use it to effectively negate an AP but it mods the stat.

40k is extremely annoying about stuff like that. Stormshields for some dumb reason ARE worded that way so termies with it do benefit, but Loot It! doesnt.

I'm fairly sure that the wording will get unified with the new codex.

Yep and that is one of the reasons, I don' t use this strategem....

Back to the topic. How does Liam used this list? Any ideas?

Hi all. I’m just about to start rebasing my boys to the 32mm bases. Just a quick question, are all infantry now in 32 mm bases? Thanks in advance