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I've been looking at scout snipers, and frankly, I'm appauled.

The idea of a sniper is increased accuracy and with careful firing it can do a tonne more accurate damage then a normal rifle.


So, thought is

SNIPER =
Rending, pinning, wounds on a 4+ +1 to ballistic skill
Second idea =
Rending, pinning, wounds on a 4+ +1 to ballistic skill if the rifle doesn't move that turn. (even in a transport.)

It would make snipers much more important, and would make a sniper a tactical weapon rather then just an extra weapon,

Well sniper weapons are heavy weapons anyway so they wouldn't move to shoot.

I agree, however, that SM snipers are gimped. Honestly, BS3? how lame? Eldar Pathfinders are goddly (BS4, rending on 5 or 6), and IG snipers are also great (BS4, cheap).

I think Scout Snipers just got the shaft. But they do get talleon which is a tactically awesome model (sniping Nobs and power fists from squads is always awesome). I think Scout Snipers just need a BS increase. Tho people would argue that would make em a bit OP as they can take heavy bolters and missile launchers too...

Hi Solon,

Rending and Pinning and the 4+ are used to try and recreate the feel of a sniper shot without having to add extra buffs and or the use of tables.

I agree that Snipers may seem pretty average compared to normal troop stats. maybe try something like a re roll to hit but that still seems OP.

But hey go ahead and try it. If you propose a rule you gotta try and back it up with some playtesting methinks!

I have playtested my idea.

The idea was, for a IG splinter rifle (ratling one) that it fired as RF sniper if it moved.

I agree with Zid entirley.

Other then that, I think that SM tactical marines should get some kind of sniper-bolter. (winkwinknudgenudge)
to make up for their scouts failure.

Thoughts?

As said before all they need i as higher BS but to be honest if that happend they could be good, i allways run them with camo cloaks so they get 3+ saves in cover. And i think on every would roll a dice on a 6 the weapon automaticly inflict a would (no saves) on a 1-5 would can be saved as normal. thoughts?

Sniper rifles are heavy weapons, and for good reason. You can't run around and fire a sniper rifle accruately.

Personally I have no problem icreasing the the BS of Scouts to BS4.

This is actually a good idea. Sniper rifles are pretty terrible with the new pinning rules and its not that big of a change, keep it as a heavy weapon but the +1 BS might make them useful.

I don't think the SM Scout Sniper should get the BS increase. The sniper rifle should simply grant a re-roll to failed "to hit" rolls in addition to the rules already in place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sniper Rifle Special Rules should be:
Pinning
Rending
Re-roll misses
Always wound on 4+
Heavy 1

Sniper rifles are still only as accurate as the person firing them. Having a sniper rifle doesnt suddenly make you a better shot and it is still possible to miss. In actual fact sniping if hard and snipers train from years to be very good at it.

Since there is a fair amout of approximation in 40k and BS3 represents accuracy after years of training and BS4 represents superhuman accuracy after decades or centuries of training it doesnt really make any sense for there to be an increased chance to hit with a sniper rifle.

reroll misses sounds good to me. I also think snipers should have the special rule "shoot and scoot!" After firing with a sniper rifle the unit my consoliate up to 6" inches in any direction. A sniper who remains stationary dies.

Regwon wrote:Sniper rifles are still only as accurate as the person firing them. Having a sniper rifle doesnt suddenly make you a better shot and it is still possible to miss. In actual fact sniping if hard and snipers train from years to be very good at it.

Since there is a fair amout of approximation in 40k and BS3 represents accuracy after years of training and BS4 represents superhuman accuracy after decades or centuries of training it doesnt really make any sense for there to be an increased chance to hit with a sniper rifle.

Great point. However the re-roll misses would be effectuating the circumstances involving poise, concentration, and the use of a 41st millennium scope. Why should a trained sniper hit only as often as a scout shooting "from the hip" during aggressive combat?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dumplingman wrote:reroll misses sounds good to me. I also think snipers should have the special rule "shoot and scoot!" After firing with a sniper rifle the unit my consoliate up to 6" inches in any direction. A sniper who remains stationary dies.

Cool idea!

How about if you nominate a target with your snipers instead of shooting and on the next shooting phase you have BS5 to represent lining up you target and taking careful aim?

I thought the increased accuracy of the weapon was taken into account with the 4+ to wound?

The fact that you can shoot a carnifex in the eye is reflected in how easy it is to wound compared to an assault weapon.

As weapons they are not great other than the excellent range and cheapness of the people carrying them, but then again, in the close confines of the 40k board, snipers wouldn't always be that useful.

How about a reduction to cover saves so your rending shots don't end up hitting nothing but bricks.

Solon, for once, I have to agree with you. I think the plus one to BS would be terrific for Scouts and and IG snipers.

Regwon wrote:Sniper rifles are still only as accurate as the person firing them. Having a sniper rifle doesnt suddenly make you a better shot and it is still possible to miss. In actual fact sniping if hard and snipers train from years to be very good at it.

Exactly. So why do IG snipers have the same BS as your average guardsman?

Regwon wrote:Since there is a fair amout of approximation in 40k and BS3 represents accuracy after years of training and BS4 represents superhuman accuracy after decades or centuries of training it doesnt really make any sense for there to be an increased chance to hit with a sniper rifle.

So, in that vein, giving the Sniper Rifle +1BS is an 'approximation' of all that special training. Plus, bipods and hi-power optics usually present on a sniper rifle, plus the type of vantage point typically employed by a sniper do help accuracy.

Here are a few ideas:

Sniper weapons are rending, pinning, always wound on a 4+, and ignore cover

or

sniper weapons are rending, pinning, always wound on a 4+, and force any successful cover saves to be rerolled.

or

sniper weapons are rending, pinning, and always wound on a 4+. In addition, on a to-hit roll of 6, sniper weapons ignore cover and disallow 'obscured' saves.

or

sniper weapons are rending, pinning, and always wound on a 4+. In addition, on a to-hit roll of 6, sniper weapons gain AP1, and ignore cover and disallow 'obscured' saves.

Those suggestion are all great, but I'd rather just be able to kit more often with what I've already got.

Here's a random idea that may be way OTT and/or totally useless, but:

Additional special rule: "Any wounds caused by Sniper weapons may be allocated by the shooting player, following the normal rules for wound allocation."

...possibly with the following caveat: "Wounds counting as AP1 or AP2 are not subject to this rule"

With any fluff reasons you wish.

/2cents

Xcal, the problem with that idea is that's what our good friend teilon gets.

what use does that make teilon if he's not special

BUT.

the problem is it says in the rulebook it ccan be hard to distinguish between two or more troops, or they might be moving so fast you lose sight of them altogether.

But SM snipers should be BS 4 at least...

Yeh i have to admit our friend teilon is good, one shot one kill on and Necron Lord attached to as scarab swarm =), but i would make a i said before on a roll on a 6 the would is unsaveable and they should have BS4?

that sounds good.

No, they should not have BS4. That effects their ranged combat efficiency with Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Heavy Bolters and Missile Launchers. Unless you want to argue that they should rival their full battle brothers in that stat, there should be another solution.

+1 BS to the sniper rifles is simple, and doesn't require ton's of special rules. All this unsavable wound crap is way to overpowered.

Just make snipers rending and add +1 to the users BS if using a sniper every1 happy with that?

Sounds good.

Why would it be easier to hit AND to wound?

It's easier to hit because snipers are often trained marksman a cut above the rest. It's easier to wound because sniper rifles are often high caliber and are meant to kill a target on it's first try.

but... the 1+ to BS was my original idea...

Sniper Rifles should find it easier to wound if you think about it no one is going to bother with a Sniper Rifle without AP rounds - it is a waste of time further more they are not just firing a quick snap shot they have lined the target up using a scope or unimagined accuracy by todays standards so they are more than likely going to hit.

My suggestion:

SR - Automatically grants user BS 4 whilst using the weapon (does not remain if they fire a pistol), AP 3, On a roll of 6 to hit it automatically wounds but saves are allowed.

Ed, cool adaptation, but what about a case where their Bs would be lowered by the BS4 (i.e. if torias could take 'em.)

In that case make it so that the Sniper Rifle increses the models baseline BS by +1 this way it would emphasise the increase in accuracy due to the sight without giving a Gretchin for example a ridiculous BS (I think they are BS 2 but not sure). Do you think this would work?