Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So: the final on the sniper rule:

S'X' AP3 type Sniper assault/heavy/w.e

Sniper BS = 1+ Rending, pinning. for vehicle attacks it's S3. wounds on a 4+.

Sniper rifles are totally bum nowadays. I think for sure they should be ap1.

We play homebrew rules for snipers, using the 4E and 5E rules.
If the sniper moves, it's 5E rules,
If they stay still, it's 4E rules.

Seems to work quite well.

-fill in-?

never played 4th ed

sorry, that makes no sense.

Ok, the jist of it is 2+ to hit, 4+ to wound.
That way you're not using crappy ballistic skill and you still have the awesome wounding capability.

Plus rending is on the "To hit" roll.

This gives credence to a sniper being more effective when stationary, but stopping to crack off a shot sometimes yealds results...

Sorry to repeat myself, but the increased accuracy is taken into account by the fact that you can wound huge creatures normally impervious to trooper weapons.

Also, they are shooting further than weapons such as bolters (which can also have scopes) so shouldn't be vastly more accurate.

Either: 36", +1 to BS, S4 rending
or: 36", 4+ to wound, rending

Should always be a heavy weapon.

Easier to hit, easy to wound, massive AP, rending and pinning is getting ridiculously overpowered.

Ed_Bodger wrote:SR - Automatically grants user BS 4 whilst using the weapon (does not remain if they fire a pistol), AP 3, On a roll of 6 to hit it automatically wounds but saves are allowed.

A wound is dealt on a 6 anyway no matter the circumstances.

And the high cal bullet is represented buy the 4+ wound!!

Zid wrote:I agree, however, that SM snipers are gimped. Honestly, BS3? how lame? Eldar Pathfinders are goddly (BS4, rending on 5 or 6), and IG snipers are also great (BS4, cheap).

well thats not how pathfinders work, when upgraded on a roll to HIT of 5 or 6 the shots ap1, and when rollling to wound any roll of a 6 rends.

So if IG and SM scouts should get a BS of 4 should Eldar Pathfinders get a BS of 5? If we judge by years of exp they would have everyone beat. I am not sure the rules need to be changed but that being said, I do like the shoot and scoot rule. TMO for what it is worth.

Hadn't thought about Eldar. We want it for IG Snipers and SM Scouts because they can't hit much at BS3.

Do Eldar need BS5? It could be overpowered. Fluufwise, however, since Eldar live for thousands of years, it makes sense...

-problem- (for Marbo too.)

Eldars guns are assault.. that's not fair, it's already OP.

Maybe if they stay still, it could be o.k.?

Why not have snipers simply hit on +3 regardless of actual BS (unless otherwise noted)

Luke_Prowler wrote:Why not have snipers simply hit on +3 regardless of actual BS (unless otherwise noted)

Sounds like a good idea

yeah, but then they're difficult for other guys w/BS 5.

Also, The weapon has to count as S5 to do jack against tanks.

But a Sniper rifle shouldn't be any good against tanks a real one isn't so I don't see any need for one to be. Against a monstrous creature yes but a tank shouldn't be vulnerable to sniper fire.

bull.

If you're a good enough shot you could kill a driver (I guess thats why it's easier to glance, but eh.) and what about OT vehicles?

They should be even more suseptable to that kind of attack.

OT vehicles yes there is an issue but there is very little chance that a sniper shooting at a Land Raider would be able to shoot the driver as:

1. There is no viewing slit they use computer screens and cameras hence no weak point,

2. The driver is also wearing power armour so not only does the sniper have to be able to penetrate an Armour 14 Hull but power armour as well.

At the end of the day a sniper rifle is designed to take down individual soldiers/commanders, a Lascannon is designed to take out a tank. As part of a mulit arm battlegroup it has its role that is why snipers should not be used in isolation they ned the support of heavy weapons to be truly effective...hence SM scout Snipers having the option to include a heavy weapon

Luke_Prowler wrote:Why not have snipers simply hit on +3 regardless of actual BS (unless otherwise noted)

only if they fire the sniper rifle though. In other words if they move they cannot fire the 'heavy' weapon and should be able to use other wargear if they have it, e.g. a bolt pistol. The bolt pistol should not benefit from the always hit on a 3+.

Are snipers really that bad? I don't use them but they look like they could be useful on paper.

Captain Solon wrote:-problem- (for Marbo too.)

Eldars guns are assault.. that's not fair, it's already OP.

Maybe if they stay still, it could be o.k.?

What ? Space Marine guns are assault as well... that's not fair, it's already OP.

Eldar Ranger long rifles however are Heavy 1.

If you want to boost sniper weapons in general, I'm fine with that (they aren't too powerful atm) however you can't just pick your own race and just boost them for their units.
Make it a sniper rule boost so it affects all races equally.

It just seems like you lose a lot of games and try to figure out any and all ways to boost your army to compensate for your tactical impotence.

basically it sounds like you want the 4e rules back.

2+ to hit (except bs2 which is 3+)
4+ to wound
armor penetration 2d6 no strength.

@Captain Solon: That's what the "unless otherwise noted" clause is for. So for a master marksman (Such as a vendicare assassin) they might have a different +#. As for tank hunting, while it might be interesting for there to be a tank hunting sniper rifle, for these anti-infantry rifles rending is just fine.

@Deuce: I perfectly agree with you. I think the reason snipers are not that popular is because since it's a heavy weapon that fires once, most people would rather take a heavy bolter or rocket launcher.

SuperioR wrote:What ? Space Marine guns are assault as well... that's not fair, it's already OP.

Sniper rifles aren't OP... most weapons a SM uses aren't assault (space pistol and special weapons) they're rapid fire.

SuperioR wrote:Eldar Ranger long rifles however are Heavy 1.

Quoted, My mistake. (I'd been told they were assault 1, RA:18")

Superior wrote:If you want to boost sniper weapons in general, I'm fine with that (they aren't too powerful atm) however you can't just pick your own race and just boost them for their units.
Make it a sniper rule boost so it affects all races equally.

thats the intention. With someone like marbo, with a sniper-pistol, it's kinda unfair. but I think sniper weapons in general should either hit on a 2+, or add 1 to BS.

SuperioR wrote:It just seems like you lose a lot of games and try to figure out any and all ways to boost your army to compensate for your tactical impotence.

I'm hurt, really.

I'm not very known with the other 'dexes, so I can't help in improoving them.

I win a majority of non-specialised (i.e. no proposed rules) games without saying "it's so unfair."

If I loose a game, I don't care, I'm having fun.

When I make up an idea, I make it simply for the thrill of bending the rules, and forcing my own pathes.

I wouldn't, for example use a non-official rule like this one in a tournament or against someone I don't play on a regular basis.

I can undestand the comment there, but, thats a bit 'out there.'

Regwon wrote:Sniper rifles are still only as accurate as the person firing them. Having a sniper rifle doesnt suddenly make you a better shot and it is still possible to miss. In actual fact sniping if hard and snipers train from years to be very good at it.

Since there is a fair amout of approximation in 40k and BS3 represents accuracy after years of training and BS4 represents superhuman accuracy after decades or centuries of training it doesnt really make any sense for there to be an increased chance to hit with a sniper rifle.

I agree strongly with this post
If a change were to be made, the only one I think that may benefit without making them overpowered would be a re-roll for hits, or a re-roll for wounds(representing the high caliber round)

ok i don't know about Vanilla Marines but I know that with space wolves it is an additional point cost to get the sniper rifle and the astats don't go up with the scout squad. my suggestion is to have the same point addition but he gains the equipment and the BS bonus. and have variable stats for each weapon choice as they will obviously have various specialties if they are using something aside fromt he standard bolter.

I thought sniper rifles always hit on a 2+ anyway, and if they don't, then they should do.