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To be fair, I'm sure there are plenty of readers/fans/backers who have no idea what Chinese New Year is, or why it has any relevance to the delivery of RRT.

I guess, Forar. Maybe.

It still ticks me off. It's not like we haven't been talking about it in the comments for months - prepping for that statement that he's only alluding to at this time!

Again, feth.

Oh, I agree. I remember people talking about it in the comments back during the campaign, a solid 9 months ago. And they even built themselves a little foreshadowing a few updates ago by referencing it.

It's certainly not a 'get out of ire free card'. More like "welcome to the program, we've been talking about this for nearly a year, y'know maybe if you listened to some of your backers who seem to have more experience than the people you're working with, some of these issues might've been avoided."

What faith are we keeping again? Is palladium a religion?

Well, we did give them money for a reward we will probably receive after we die...

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well, we did give them money for a reward we will probably receive after we die...

Well played, sir.


I remembered something that might be good - here's hoping Mike gets that game in this weekend and gives it a nice battle report treatment.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well, we did give them money for a reward we will probably receive after we die...

Exalted!

This thread provides a lot of reading enjoyment to many here on Dakka Dakka too, so there's that!

 Kendachi wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Well, we did give them money for a reward we will probably receive after we die...

Well played, sir.


I remembered something that might be good - here's hoping Mike gets that game in this weekend and gives it a nice battle report treatment.

Bob that was hilarious!

Kendachi, is Mike able to do battle reports under the NDA?

While I can't speak directly for him, he has said in the past as long he can do battle reports as long as he doesn't divulge specifics about the rules. Basically, he can say that a valkyrie blasted a battlepod but not that it needed a 6 to hit with a +1 for flanking or somesuch.

I have to say I'm sinking back into apathy with this project kind of like post gencon last year. I stopped following the comments and press releases and didn't log into either Palladium's or Kickstarter's sites for weeks at a time.. and I'm getting the feeling that would be best again. Somewhat depressingly, we're at the same point we were post gencon last summer in that we're still 3-4 months away from delivery of the product assuming that there are no "unforseen" delays (and that is in quotes as Palladium seems to have blinders on regarding the reality of this product and their RPG products as they're oblivious to at best or flat out lying at worst).

I know it's petty but at this point if they can't deliver by around May then I actually hope they miss Gencon as well as a sort of punishment and miss out on all those 100% keep the MSRP sales and are forced instead to support the other tiers of the distribution system.

 warboss wrote:
Somewhat depressingly, we're at the same point we were post gencon last summer in that we're still 3-4 months away from delivery of the product assuming that there are no "unforseen" delays (and that is in quotes as Palladium seems to have blinders on regarding the reality of this product and their RPG products as they're oblivious to at best or flat out lying at worst).

I know it's petty but at this point if they can't deliver by around May then I actually hope they miss Gencon as well as a sort of punishment and miss out on all those 100% keep the MSRP sales and are forced instead to support the other tiers of the distribution system.

I hear that.

I fully expect the obvious "so, about that Chinese New Year thing..." update today or next week at the latest, something to basically placate/redirect people for February. Given that they said they should have a solid idea of the timeline "by the end of the year" over six weeks ago, if they can't at least cough up a month of release by early March there'll be even bigger signs of trouble. Their site says it should be available in "spring", which ends in around 150 days. Losing February means they'll have 4 months to do the test run, production run, whatever other work is necessary, and get that stuff across an ocean.

Sounding familiarly optimistic yet? :-D

But hey, they got a bit touchy when I questioned them making Gencon, so obviously that fire has been lit. Much like our posts from half a year ago, they're getting close enough to the point of no return that either they start tossing us good news and seeking shipping verification, or they begin explaining what new snags are holding things up so we can yet again revise our expectations.

I'm already revising mine to August as the optimistic ones. Once again, the game is to see how long it takes them to break free of that late June target, with recognition that there's a low (but non-zero) chance they might actually provide solid info all around in early March once things presumably fire back up with the factory they're working with.

NTRabbit wrote:
Oh, and I'm reliably informed never back anything by Gareth-Michael Skarka, he's years behind his one and only solo project, keeps looking for more money and starting work on other joint projects or contracts, abuses people who question where the promised RPG is, starts fights with actual successful companies like Evil Hat, and generally behaves like he's the greatest writer in history and is above listening to any of your peasant gak, he's creating, when it turns out he's just a mediocre content producer who developed a big ego after having one or two small supplements to something published. I don't really RPG though, so really only going by what others say.

There's a few websites that kinda-sorta do this kind of analysis, but I've found it interesting when Kickstarter creators discuss how it goes when a 'simple' project turns into something more complex.

I do wonder if Kickstarter is going to be discussed as a weird mental issue in the human brain at some point. Something like the same way studies have shown '.99' to somehow read significantly different from '1.00' people seem to want to grab for the big bundles instead of the less risky smaller investments.

 warboss wrote:
While I can't speak directly for him, he has said in the past as long he can do battle reports as long as he doesn't divulge specifics about the rules. Basically, he can say that a valkyrie blasted a battlepod but not that it needed a 6 to hit with a +1 for flanking or somesuch.

I have to say I'm sinking back into apathy with this project kind of like post gencon last year. I stopped following the comments and press releases and didn't log into either Palladium's or Kickstarter's sites for weeks at a time.. and I'm getting the feeling that would be best again. Somewhat depressingly, we're at the same point we were post gencon last summer in that we're still 3-4 months away from delivery of the product assuming that there are no "unforseen" delays (and that is in quotes as Palladium seems to have blinders on regarding the reality of this product and their RPG products as they're oblivious to at best or flat out lying at worst).

I know it's petty but at this point if they can't deliver by around May then I actually hope they miss Gencon as well as a sort of punishment and miss out on all those 100% keep the MSRP sales and are forced instead to support the other tiers of the distribution system.

Hey all,

My daughter's B-Day is this weekend so the battle report will wait till next weekend or the weekend after. The NDA states that I cannot show pictures of the rules or the few stat cards that I do have. It does give me quite a bit of leeway so I'm leery about how much I share. I've asked for some clarification out of respect because I don't want to break the trust I've been given. I don't think it appropriate to share my updated stat cards on units not yet shard publicly since I would take away their thunder if they decide to share more stat cards for units that we have not seen yet. That being said I think it would be fine if I share a report where let's say a unit fire X missiles at another and he is hit by three missiles for X damage and rolls against one missile and that leaves him with 3 points left. I hope to share as much as possible because like you I'm a fan and am happy with the trust I've been given. That does not mean I'll blow smoke up your rears on what I think of the rules. They are very close to what I published with my interpretation. Honestly I do think most of you will be happy. Some like highly detailed units and will want a game that plays more like Battletech. Others will want a game more like 40K. It's closer to 40k but fast playing and does reflect the cartoon well. Like I said if you look at my rules on the facebook page you will not be too far off when the real thing comes out. I hope to have some real good pics up and maybe even some video. I just bought a Mac II that's a little big scale wide but if you check the facebook page you will see a few pics of it. I still have to add the decals.

If you have any questions feel free to ask!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Part of the reason I think they sent me the NDA was to help keep people spirits up on this. Sounds like things are going well if they have all the Veritech engineering layouts ready to go. I still think we will have everything in time so that they can bring things to market for GenCon. That means likely June/July at latest. So it they have the molds and all done and approved by end of Feb. They can start producing, Production finishes late April? Not sure how long it will take honestly, then 6 weeks to ship to US via boat and pass through customs brings us to Mid-June, Shipping starts Early July? I'm just going off of what others have mentioned and creating my own timeline here so correct me if something there is way off. We get our stuff mid-July and still have a month before GenCon.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Course I put 2 months for production, Hoe long do you think it should take?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as I write the new update appears.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/728847

Mike1975 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Part of the reason I think they sent me the NDA was to help keep people spirits up on this. Sounds like things are going well if they have all the Veritech engineering layouts ready to go. I still think we will have everything in time so that they can bring things to market for GenCon. That means likely June/July at latest. So it they have the molds and all done and approved by end of Feb. They can start producing, Production finishes late April? Not sure how long it will take honestly, then 6 weeks to ship to US via boat and pass through customs brings us to Mid-June, Shipping starts Early July? I'm just going off of what others have mentioned and creating my own timeline here so correct me if something there is way off. We get our stuff mid-July and still have a month before GenCon.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Course I put 2 months for production, Hoe long do you think it should take?

I would love to get that stuff in July. First problem in your theory is that while they now have 5 more weeks to tweek and complete all of the digital designs, zero (read NONE) of the molds have been cut. With the amount of plastic sprues to make what, 15 completely different models, you're talking a couple months to get all of them cut, tweeked and mastered. Then you're talking the actual production run, and I hope they have already worked out all the packaging. That would mean they're only waiting on the production run. But they usually finish the packaging after they do the test runs of the plastics.

I'm disappointed after the last update. They said in the KS that they were 98% done with the original models, but here we're just now seeing the first printing of the basic battlepod (which they said needed minor tweeks still), and they're just seeing the Veritechs (presumably for the first time)?? Guess we'll see a printing of those soon, but I'd prefer some actual Integrity, an open and honest post about exactly where ND is on all of this. Palladium should be polishing the game mechanics and the book and cards at this point, as they now have an extra 6 months. They should be looking to the next set of rules, how they plan to expand them, make the game deeper, how to make a campaign where pilots on both sides progress and take on meaning. Perhaps look for a design studio that can deliver on what they promise...

Is anyone else getting the feeling that this KS's armor is torn?

 Salacious Greed wrote:


I would love to get that stuff in July. First problem in your theory is that while they now have 5 more weeks to tweek and complete all of the digital designs, zero (read NONE) of the molds have been cut. With the amount of plastic sprues to make what, 15 completely different models, you're talking a couple months to get all of them cut, tweeked and mastered. Then you're talking the actual production run, and I hope they have already worked out all the packaging. That would mean they're only waiting on the production run. But they usually finish the packaging after they do the test runs of the plastics.

I'm disappointed after the last update. They said in the KS that they were 98% done with the original models, but here we're just now seeing the first printing of the basic battlepod (which they said needed minor tweeks still), and they're just seeing the Veritechs (presumably for the first time)?? Guess we'll see a printing of those soon, but I'd prefer some actual Integrity, an open and honest post about exactly where ND is on all of this. Palladium should be polishing the game mechanics and the book and cards at this point, as they now have an extra 6 months. They should be looking to the next set of rules, how they plan to expand them, make the game deeper, how to make a campaign where pilots on both sides progress and take on meaning. Perhaps look for a design studio that can deliver on what they promise...

This. This x 1,000,000. I don't know how accurate your times estimates are, but I can't imagine making the molds is a quick and easy process. How long is it going to take to produce more than 600,000 miniatures and then package, ship, etc... I have no hope for 2014.

Oh, and Bob - Stop it, yer killing me!

Once the moulds are cut (which is a long process, and will also involve a bunch of back and forth approving the test casts and potentially further refining the moulds)

production will be surprisingly quick, probably no more than a minute or two per 'shot' of plastic

so using multiple machines (each making a different mini/sprue) a factory can rapidly burn through the actual production

the potential hold up will be a production slot (I'm sure you have to put some non-refundable money down to get one),

none of these factory's sit around doing nothing they're always busy and despite what we might think producing something for a wargaming company is probably lower priority than making something destined for gumball machines

 Kendachi wrote:

This. This x 1,000,000. I don't know how accurate your times estimates are, but I can't imagine making the molds is a quick and easy process. How long is it going to take to produce more than 600,000 miniatures and then package, ship, etc... I have no hope for 2014.

Oh, and Bob - Stop it, yer killing me!

As Orlando said, cutting the molds takes a while. From the RK thread, SPM said that their original estimate was 6 weeks for the base RK game. But the KS extended that to 3 1/2 months. I'm hoping that RRT needs less molds, though I don't see that as being true. So, with the CNY being done the end of February, the molds won't likely be finished before the 1st of May, if not June. Add in a month to sail to their destinations, once they're packed. Let's hope that ND has their together 1 March, and they can get a production slot. Let's all cross our fingers that ND doesn't suck as much as they seem to with RK....

Neither Palladium nor Ninja Division has a clue what they're doing. Even if you apply the infamous "98% done" statement only to the base game and nothing else (and if you think that's all they had planned, you're fooling yourself), it's a complete lie. They are still in the last few weeks working out 10 months later the valkyrie and battlepod model details and tweaking the rules; that pretty much makes up most of the core boxed set and blows the pre and during KS statements about their preparedness out of the water even with the much lower standard of just the core set. Just like with the Northern Gun "we're almost done" statements, there is no truth to it. That's why I feel they should post a line by line table showing EACH item and it's current state. That's the only way Palladium (and their vassals Ninja Division) can restore any faith (beyond that of mindless drones in the comments and on their forums of course) in their ability to provide any realistic estimates on the project.

If RRT had been delivered on time the miniatures could have looked like this.
http://www.heavygauss.com/MUSEUM/robotech.html

 Cypher-xv wrote:
If RRT had been delivered on time the miniatures could have looked like this.
http://www.heavygauss.com/MUSEUM/robotech.html

I often wonder why they did not use those old minis.....I mean some molds may have been trashed but you think they could use that to help them get a jumpstart since not all the molds would have been destroyed.

Mike1975 wrote:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
If RRT had been delivered on time the miniatures could have looked like this.
http://www.heavygauss.com/MUSEUM/robotech.html

I often wonder why they did not use those old minis.....I mean some molds may have been trashed but you think they could use that to help them get a jumpstart since not all the molds would have been destroyed.

Because they didn't own them, or have any rights to them?

And its fairly likely the molds were destroyed when the license agreement ended.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Don't forget Mantic!


Or are they cool again?


Man, they need to pick a competency level and stick to it.

Well, they never made my "Do not Kickstart again" list - but I'm certainly going to be more cautious backing them after reading their thread...

Mike1975 wrote:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
If RRT had been delivered on time the miniatures could have looked like this.
http://www.heavygauss.com/MUSEUM/robotech.html

I often wonder why they did not use those old minis.....I mean some molds may have been trashed but you think they could use that to help them get a jumpstart since not all the molds would have been destroyed.

I'm glad they didn't. The vf-1s in B mode looks atrocious. The head looks nothing like the one in the show. In fact most of them look like a poor mans version of the minis you received. The destroids came out looking ok but for my money I'm glad the sculpts were done from the ground up. When you start painting Max you'll notice the differences. The mini you have looks like it leapt from your tv screen onto your desk. The old minis were sculpted by hand. The ND minis were digitaly sculpted enabling them to make more accurate miniatures. I just hope ND can maintain the level of quality with the other 2 modes. I don't think the ND models have the slight flat area at the front of the nose or the fins below the canopy.

http://www.robotech-aod.com/images/VF-1A-Parked.gif

Does anyone have a link to where palladium initially promised that backers would get their minis first? The more recent "promises" state that we'll get the minis before distributors but I recall a different wording earlier in the campaign (possibly during the actual kickstarter). I'm just preparing for the likelihood of them fast shipping boxes to sell at gencon to non-backers while backers wait for their year earlier prepaid items to come over on the slow boat.

There is this from Update 125:

Being a Kickstarter backer. Your Kickstarter pledge goes toward funding a special project, to make that goal a reality. The product you are to receive as a Kickstarter backer is your rewardfor that pledge. Palladium Books is working diligently to finish the project you have so graciously helped to fund. And you WILL get the rewards promised. Believe that, because it is absolutely true.

Yes, there are delays. No, we cannot give you an exact release date yet – at this time – but we will as soon as we can make that happen.

In the end, you, our Kickstarter supporters, will be the first to receive a wonderful product that we hope will make you grin and provide endless hours of enjoyment. Thank you for sharing our dream. You, your pledges of support and unbridled enthusiasm are very much appreciated

I think it's inconceivable that if they have the game finished and ready to sell it won't show up at Gencon, pretty much all KS projects that attend with the ability to sell do so irrespective of the state of the KS shipments (it's just too hard to turn down the advertising potential with all the shows/blogs/podcasts/forum members attending all wanting to buy and then review the next big thing)

although the classy operators (hello Impact Miniatures Chibi Dungeon Adventurers) ask their KS backers permission (and get it because we want the company to prosper and it's not as if relatively few sales will actually ruin our lives)

Unless they start shipping boxes in June, I can't see how it won't happen to some degree.

If ALL of the boxes have shipped by mid August, I can imagine some ruffled feathers, but doubt it'd be a huge deal. As long as it's in the hands of the postal service, they have some measure of plausible deniability/a manner of assuaging at least some hard feelings that may be expressed.

If they come out with an update to the tune of "hey all! Exciting news! We're all going to be super busy at Gencon for, well, August, and once it's over and we're home and have gotten over the inevitable con-crud, we'll start shipping boxes out to the backers, which totally are not sitting in pallets in the warehouse right now, yearning to be set free and launched into the hands of the postal service!", there'll be rioting.

Even among their diehard fans, I imagine it'd be a hard sell.

I don't know about the die hards rioting. Some of the stuff I've seen today was pretty weak. Like the explanation of the 98%. I've mellowed out since the PB started "jazz handing" us, but that was bull. Still the defenders have there right to their opinions too. It's funny how the "cabal" and the "defender" bs has made its way to the ks comms section. What's funny is how the mod for the PB forums tried to put BS down earler.

http://www.projectotaku.com/2014/01/25/robotech-industry-panel-aod-2014/

Mike1975 wrote:
http://www.projectotaku.com/2014/01/25/robotech-industry-panel-aod-2014/

A release date of May - June, but the miniature units are expected to begin shipping in December 2014.


Uh - what?

It's dangerously close to pitchfork time.

If one were charitable (I know we're not, but let's say someone is, maybe, somewhere), I could see shipping to backers in July, raking in stacks of cash at GC with the "3-4 months before retail" wave 1 stuff they have on hand and whatever exclusives they decide to make, and go from there. Intentionally do a production run for the backers and GC, ship it, and then spend the intervening months pumping out enough to distribute to global retail by the end of the year.

Makes sense. Trying to do Backer boxes and global retail at the same time would probably have us all waiting until November.

Of course, again, I'm trying to make sense of madness.

Edit: that said, my "late June" countdown of 150 days feels ambitious.

May would probably require a miracle. 120'ish days, 90'ish after you lop off February? Yeah, that's some publicity BS.