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I still don't think it's true, on the basis that WD says the Scion platoons are an elites choice for codex Imperial Guard (and I know there are people here that think that's a deliberate ploy to flog people models they won't be able to use in a week's time, but I think that's probably not a thing - why wouldn't they have just said they're for the MT book, to get you to buy the new MT book, instead of getting you to buy them, then find they're not in the AM book and THEN disgruntledly buy the MT book later?)

Also, why would GW force themselves to provide several pages of original content to meet the page-count when they can just re-print material from the other book?

The new IG Codex may just have a bog standard one squad as Elites entry for Scions.

If you want the full bells and whistles, new orders and to have them as an Army in their own right you need the Tempestus Codex...which you can then ally with IG.

At least that's what I'm hoping as I want Scions but have no real urge to pay for a Tempestus Codex.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Also, why would GW force themselves to provide several pages of original content to meet the page-count when they can just re-print material from the other book?

$

That 4 track APC looks like a Saracen armoured car.

Ahh....childhood memories of Belfast.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I will talk to him today to clarify it better.....

Regardless, just using common sense, if GW is making 2 codexes (AT & AM), which we know they are, GW would not put all the same info from AT into AM &/or AM into AT. What would be the point of making two codexes!

From their (GWs) financial/sales sense, it would eliminate the need to even buy the AT codex if the (bigger and more complete) AM codex had the same AT info......



Automatically Appended Next Post:

General Hobbs wrote:


Inn 3rd edition you had to have the Space Marines codex to use Blood Angels and Space Wolves. I believe that is what he is referencing.

This!

This is also when the Space Marine codex was $19.99 ish and the Blood Angels codex was $9.99... Not $50 and $50

Yeah... I'm sorry krazy but the combo of unclear wording/shifting goalposts (I predict X!... I mean X+1! I mean just like Y used to be!) plus claims of "I knew this months before" don't add up well together. You frankly sound like your friend is making educated guesses. If the codex is a "supplement" then it will refer to the main book just like Farsight Enclaves does. If it is a standalone codex like Knight Titans, it won't. It's not much of a rumor to pick one of the existing types for a rumor and then claim knowledge of a rumored website change for months when the rumor has been around for months (and mentioned in the GW financial report even). Sorry but your redshirt friend has provided you (at least based on what you're posting) with nothing more than a reading of the existing rumors with a small dose of educated guess.

 warboss wrote:
Yeah... I'm sorry krazy but the combo of unclear wording/shifting goalposts (I predict X!... I mean X+1! I mean just like Y used to be!) plus claims of "I knew this months before" don't add up well together. You frankly sound like your friend is making educated guesses. If the codex is a "supplement" then it will refer to the main book just like Farsight Enclaves does. If it is a standalone codex like Knight Titans, it won't. It's not much of a rumor to pick one of the existing types for a rumor and then claim knowledge of a rumored website change for months when the rumor has been around for months (and mentioned in the GW financial report even). Sorry but your redshirt friend has provided you (at least based on what you're posting) with nothing more than a reading of the existing rumors with a small dose of educated guess.

Most likely (I hope).

The conversation went like this (after he had just returned from Memphis)...
(jumping to the part in question)

Me - Yeah, I was thinking of doing a Scion Drop Trooper army, kinda like an Elysian force.
Him - Cool idea. The Scions do get to use Valkyries as transports, but you'll need to get the new Astra Militarum codex for the updated Valkyrie stats and stuff. I'm not sure Scions can be a stand alone army though.
Me - What? If the Scions have access to the Valkyrie, and for that matter the Chimera, are you telling me they're (the Chimera & Valkyrie) not in the Astra Tempestus codex?
Him - That was my understanding. Don't sweat it though, there's a new White Dwarf coming out that will have the Scion info in it.
Me - I might just run my Grenadiers as Vets then in Valkyries, or give them those souped up Tauroxes.
Him - I don't know if they (vets) can get Tauroxes. The upcoming White Dwarf has the Taurox info in it too. We'll see.
Me - Should I bother to preorder the Stormtrooper codex then?
Him- If you plan on using Stormtroopers in your guard army, then yes, I would when they come up for preordering. Make sure you do it in my store, so I get the credit!
Me - I'd imagine the new Guard codex will have the same info for Scions though. I don't want to buy a whole extra codex for one unit. I'm still pissed at the Knight codex.
Him- From what I gathered, the entry for Stormtroopers, Scions that is, has a brief entry (in the AM Codex) for the unit, but refers you to the Astra Tempestus codex for further information to use them with an imperial army.
Me - That will be such bull$&^% if that is true.
Him - I think the White Dwarf will have enough of the information you need, if you are just doing like one or two elites of Scions, along with the new guard codex. If not, you can get the info from the store codex.

So that was part of the conversation.

Take with some salt and interpret how you will.

I'd wager good money that the codex MT will contain reprints of the storm trooper units in codex AM. There will be more in depth fluff and rules for making a warlord and running them as scoring units in TM. You won't need the AM book to run an MT army and you won't need the MT book to include storm troopers in a AM army.

My reasons for this?
No supplement has introduced new models, just alternate rules for existing models. If TM was a supplement for AM then those new storm trooper models would likely be available in some form in the MA codex.
Nothing titled as a codex in WD has required another codex to be played. In fact other than codex specific supplements like black legion/crimson slaughter nothing in 6th has required any additional books beyond the core rule book to be used. Even the data slate formations are self contained.
Being a digital exclusive codes it feels exactly like codex inquisition/legion of the damned. Both are essentially mini-codexs that let you take an elite choice and run them as a stand alone force with a few extra bells and whistles.

 DJGietzen wrote:
I'd wager good money that the codex MT will contain reprints of the storm trooper units in codex AM. There will be more in depth fluff and rules for making a warlord and running them as scoring units in TM. You won't need the AM book to run an MT army and you won't need the MT book to include storm troopers in a AM army.

I'm all but certain this is how it's going to go down too.

Some preorders have come up.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCatsLarge.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

This is worth mentioning:

Altar of War

Battle in the 41st millennium is a bloody affair with conflicts raging across the galaxy. Every opponent represents a new challenge and each army has their own battle tactics. On the battlefield, you have hundreds, if not thousands, of different ways you can play games of Warhammer 40,000.

The Altar of War compendium is a collection of 63 missions (that first appeared in digital products) presented in a handy hardback book.

The missions encapsulate all the methods of war being fought across the Imperium and beyond. Each one is tailored to the specialist tactics and unique weaponry of many of the factions fighting in the 41st Millennium - from the rapid shock assaults of the Space Marines to the insidious incursions of the daemonic legions. Each mission is designed to challenge your tactical ability and this book features the Altar of War missions from:

- Space Marines, including Sentinels of Terra and Clan Raukaan
- Dark Angels
- Imperial Knights
- Eldar, including lyanden
- Tau Empire, including Farsight Enclaves
- Tyranids
- Chaos Daemons
- Chaos Space Marines, including Black Legion.

The Altar of War book is $49.50 USD.

That's actually really cool.

There's now a Militarum Tempestus section on the website which includes not only Scions and Tauroxes but Commissars and Valkyries, casting some doubt on this idea that you need the AM *and* MT books.

Altar of War book looks surprisingly worth getting. And I love that cover art.

It is nice to finally see the sprues.

Not too many surprises other than a servo skull and two (armless) separate Hellguns. EDIT: Oops, the servo skull was actually shown earlier so I guess the extra Hellguns are the only surprise. The kit seems to have the anticipated options for a command squad, plenty of heads, one special weapon of each type, and enough Hellguns for all five models. I see no Grav Gun but someone else's eyes may be sharper than mine.

Looking at the pre-orders page for the Taurox and it appears the turret MIGHT be able to traverse from the better photos on offer.

 JB wrote:
It is nice to finally see the sprues.

Not too many surprises other than a servo skull and two (armless) separate Hellguns. It seems to have the anticipated options for a command squad, plenty of heads, one special weapon of each type, and enough Hellguns for all five models. I see no Grav Gun but someone else's eyes may be sharper than mine.

Grav Guns weren't one of the options listed in White Dwarf. There's a bulkier Hellgun in there, where it looks like it has two barrels and that is the previously unknown "Volley Hellgun".

one HWT 19$ CAN...a box of three is 47$..wow, I,m actually saving money (more than 5$ too) buying a box of 3!

<--- Bitches about digital only content.

Reads "The Altar of War compendium is a collection of 63 missions (that first appeared in digital products) presented in a handy hardback book."

Purchased. feth yeah!

I am really digging that coat.

Alter of War sounds good though probably not up my alley. Models look good. Sprues look pretty good except I'm not a fan of the Scion torsos since I like converting and giant gaping holds is bad.

 kronk wrote:
<--- Bitches about digital only content.

Reads "The Altar of War compendium is a collection of 63 missions (that first appeared in digital products) presented in a handy hardback book."

Purchased. feth yeah!

Stand by for bitching from those who bought the digital only content previously.

Altar of War, IMO, is the kind of thing that is a great buy for a club/group.

Everyone chips in $5-$10 USD and then they get the book, have it left at the store with one of the employees and voila.

How bendable is plastic, compared to resin? I'd like my scions aiming rather than standing around guns pointed at the ground.

I am quite happy about the two armless hellguns, one for the Sarge and one for the special weapon, depending on which weapon I give him.

There's a Scion Expeditionary Firce on the GW site.
1x command squad, 6x scion squads, 4x Taurox and 3x Valk - £512!

A nice looking force certainly and an indication perhaps where Scions are intended to take support from. Could be a good book for all you Elysian Drop troopers (model your buggies to twin AC and you set! ).

 Bobthehero wrote:
How bendable is plastic, compared to resin? I'd like my scions aiming rather than standing around guns pointed at the ground.

You can heat plastic up a bit and get a little more bendiness out of it by doing so.

I am quite happy about the two armless hellguns, one for the Sarge and one for the special weapon, depending on which weapon I give him.

Per the description in WD, the two armless Hellguns are for the Vox-Operator and the Medic.

The Tempestor does not have an option for a Hellgun anymore, just overpriced melee weapons.

I am aware, its mostly just for visuals, and I got used to my Watchmasters (Sergeants) being able to use lasgun (but Grenadiers Watchmasters are stuck with pistols? Okay...) I am probably not even going to play with them, since I play the Death Korps.

It would be cool if they didn't cost more per model than Grey Knights, I already thought that was bad. I'll probably pass on the new Stormies even though the models are pretty nice.

 Bobthehero wrote:
I am aware, its mostly just for visuals, and I got used to my Watchmasters (Sergeants) being able to use lasgun (but Grenadiers Watchmasters are stuck with pistols? Okay...) I am probably not even going to play with them, since I play the Death Korps.

It's possible that Death Korps will get to keep their current choices.

Mistyped, I am buying the models because I think they look great, its unlikely I'll even play them.