Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2020/06/26 00:55:10
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Assuming they're good enough to address hiccups on units/abilities/stratagems that gave more than a +1 bonus without stacking, what could we get on Protector Doctrina Imperative for Data-tethers in place of +2 to hit?
2020/06/26 01:37:35
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
actually i wonder if they'll errata that strat to do something else, like allow rerolls if you have the data tether or something. Its not like were stacking effects to get exploding 4s, were using a single strat. I suspect things that are one rule adding +/-2 might change.
The -2 to hit though i doubt that'll get "fixed" to still be a thing, that IS stacking rules, which is the point of the max +/-1 rule.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/26 01:38:06
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/06/26 04:01:04
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I'm even gonna say the typical 1 Knight + WLT + Relic auxiliary is nonfunctional. 5 CP for that setup, you're already down to 7 before any other pre-game spending, of which we now have a glut of options with Engine War.
2020/06/27 15:31:30
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Madjob wrote: I'm even gonna say the typical 1 Knight + WLT + Relic auxiliary is nonfunctional. 5 CP for that setup, you're already down to 7 before any other pre-game spending, of which we now have a glut of options with Engine War.
Kind of agree but the mechanicus detatchment being free means a selective build could still work but yep its bad
2020/06/27 15:35:43
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
3/6 CP for a single/multiple Imperial Knights is way too high, no command benefit CP refund if the detachment contains your Warlord either. IK and Armigers will have to be priced (in points) very aggressively to see much use. Will have to wait and see what the method of refunding those CP is I suppose.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/27 16:05:17
2020/06/27 15:39:31
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Madjob wrote: I'm even gonna say the typical 1 Knight + WLT + Relic auxiliary is nonfunctional. 5 CP for that setup, you're already down to 7 before any other pre-game spending, of which we now have a glut of options with Engine War.
Kind of agree but the mechanicus detatchment being free means a selective build could still work but yep its bad
Thinking on it some more, it might still do when you take the 1 CP/turn and I think Monitor Malevolus would be a must-take. But you will definitely need to be tight fisted with your CP, Raven Castellans need not apply.
2020/06/27 22:57:59
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Madjob wrote: I'm even gonna say the typical 1 Knight + WLT + Relic auxiliary is nonfunctional. 5 CP for that setup, you're already down to 7 before any other pre-game spending, of which we now have a glut of options with Engine War.
Kind of agree but the mechanicus detatchment being free means a selective build could still work but yep its bad
Thinking on it some more, it might still do when you take the 1 CP/turn and I think Monitor Malevolus would be a must-take. But you will definitely need to be tight fisted with your CP, Raven Castellans need not apply.
Assuming the rules do not change in Pariah, an Xenos Inquisitor with the Xenos warlord trait will get you back CP you spend on a 5+, often a more likely roll? and allows for stuff like smite etc.
Praise the Omnissiah
About 4k of .
Imperial Knights (Valiant, Warden & Armigers)
Some Misc. Imperium units etc. Assassins...
About 2k of
2020/06/28 00:59:42
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
So I have a question and I'm 90% sure DBAD applies here but thought I'd float the idea.
I'm intending on having two different custom Forgeworld detachments, a data hoard + trans node power core battalion with my HO Artisan and HO Genetor WTs full of Breachers, Ballistarii and Distintigrators and an Expansionist + Rugged Explorators one with Daedalosus full of raiders and skystalkers/sterylizors. Daedalosus' Omniscanner ability targets Adeptus Mechanicus so he'll be fine to help out my Dominus and Manipulus gunline from his separate detachment. My question is: these are custom Forgeworlds so can be named whatever we like, maybe I missed it but does that allow us to give them the same keyword for aura purposes? It's not the end of the world if my skystalkers and raiders cant benefit from the HO WT, they're arguably going to be off somewhere else causing a ruckus and drawing attention away from the guns anyway. But it might be nice if they were in range to get some benefits.
Edited for clarity.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This is the list if anyone is interested:
A highly mobile and flexible list imo. Our group only normally plays 1500 and I know I'm under that here but I'm sort of allowing for points increases and maybe switching skystalkers to sterylizors.
All 3 of those HQ auras stack up to be pretty horrendous for anyone I can target with a few utilities to get me out of sticky situations.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/28 02:00:58
2020/06/28 04:13:13
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
I let my buddy go first just to see what a mech Primaris list could do. He killed 7 breachers, 10 hoplites, 2.5 Kastelan Robots, and a Neutronager. Plus a robot blew up and put MWs on half my damn army.
My retaliation was apocalyptic. Autocannons with the Mars canticle with extra hits on 6s and AP-2 at <27" are NUTS. TWICE I rolled double 6s for my Neutron Laser, turning 2 shots into 4 hits, haha. Otherwise, my dice rolls were enough to turn BBone into a plant from across the pond. It didn't matter, 12 autocannon shots per turn with an Icarus Array and a Neutron Laser were just about enough to kill an entire 2000 point Primaris list. I think I tabled him by turn 4. S5 heavy stubbers are also incredible. I never used Cawl before and, wow, he really is just a re-roll Aura and Canticle manipulator. He got punked by a Primaris Captain and that was a little disappointing. He definitely feels like a holdover from the Index days or something. I don't understand how a Primaris Captain turned into a Chapter Master is so much better than Cawl. Hopefully he gets updated.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/28 04:30:20
5k Imperial Guard
2k Ad Mech
2020/06/28 07:52:37
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Autocannon Ballistarii are RIDICULOUS. I cannot say this enough. They just brutally shred everything with Mars Canticle, Cawl rerolls, exploding 6s to hit, and the +1 to wound against vehicles.
2020/06/28 07:59:41
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Colonel Cross wrote: Haha I think this very subject has come up frequently in the Astra Militarum thread. I don't recall the consensus, but my gut says that wouldn't fly.
I got to play a game against a unique Primaris mechanized Ultramarines list using the new Engine War rules. Here was my list:
++ Brigade Detachment [140 PL, 2,000pts,15CP] ++
Belisarius Cawl
Daedalosus
Tech-Priest Dominus: Eradication Ray, Phosphor Serpenta, Relic: Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land, Warlord Trait: Divinations of the Magos
Tech-Priest Manipulus [5 PL, 65pts]: Magnarail lance, Warlord Trait: Fabrications of the Artisan
I let my buddy go first just to see what a mech Primaris list could do. He killed 7 breachers, 10 hoplites, 2.5 Kastelan Robots, and a Neutronager. Plus a robot blew up and put MWs on half my damn army.
My retaliation was apocalyptic. Autocannons with the Mars canticle with extra hits on 6s and AP-2 at <27" are NUTS. TWICE I rolled double 6s for my Neutron Laser, turning 2 shots into 4 hits, haha. Otherwise, my dice rolls were enough to turn BBone into a plant from across the pond. It didn't matter, 12 autocannon shots per turn with an Icarus Array and a Neutron Laser were just about enough to kill an entire 2000 point Primaris list. I think I tabled him by turn 4. S5 heavy stubbers are also incredible. I never used Cawl before and, wow, he really is just a re-roll Aura and Canticle manipulator. He got punked by a Primaris Captain and that was a little disappointing. He definitely feels like a holdover from the Index days or something. I don't understand how a Primaris Captain turned into a Chapter Master is so much better than Cawl. Hopefully he gets updated.
Thanks for this, I have similar plans for that list up there, though I am a little worried it relies too much on Breachers... There are so many layered overlapping bonuses with the new Dogmas/Canticles and HO WTs it's immense! My plans include the following:
All the Skystalkers and Raiders increase their AP by 1 if they charge and can advance and fire their ranged weapons at no penalty.
All Ballistarii and Disintigrators have a 6+++
All Breachers Heavy Arc Rifles and Arc Claws get an additional hit on a hit roll of 5-6.
Ranged weapons at half range improve AP by 1 or Wrath of Mars with Arc weapons against vehicles.
All those extra Breachers melee attacks AP increases to -3 on a wound roll of a 6 or give them a 5+++ + their melee attacks can be re-rolled.
+6" range and RR1s + Daedalosus hanging around for +1 to hit against something
All without strategms...and that's without the other tools for auto passing morale or allowing a vehicle to fall back and shoot.
The biggest challenge is keeping things in range of those HO warlord traits lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was just trying to think how the cognis rule would translate to 9th...I reckon our vehicles with cognis weapons will be able to fire into engagement range without the -1 penalty to heavy weapons.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/28 12:23:44
2020/06/28 14:12:31
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Seems likely that the Cognis overwatch strat gives us a second way to overwatch anyway. Cognis would have been about lessening movement penalties. But seeing as all cognis equipped units are vehicles they all ignore that anyway. Maybe it allows us to advance and fire at -1? Kind of the same as it is in 8th but less of a penalty because vehicles no longer have that inbuilt movement penalty.
2020/06/28 17:07:28
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Do we know which of our weapons are going be blast weapons? Because looking at 9E, it seems like blast weapons will be a penalty; they penalize large units so much that nobody is going to be running anything but MSUs. (Even stuff like Robots, Ballistarii, and Kataphrons are going to be in blocks of 5.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/30 11:37:55
2020/06/30 11:59:57
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Suzuteo wrote: Do we know which of our weapons are going be blast weapons? Because looking at 9E, it seems like blast weapons will be a penalty; they penalize large units so much that nobody is going to be running anything but MSUs. (Even stuff like Robots, Ballistarii, and Kataphrons are going to be in blocks of 5.)
Id say: Belleros, Neutron Laser, Eradication Weaponry, Kataphron Plasma. Knightwise Thermal, RFBC.
I dont think missiles and rockets will be effected ( except bigger ones).
Flamers will probably have a pseudo Blast that will be get some different kind of additional rules maybe ignore cover, always overwatch and are still usable in melee for vehicles.
On a different note. I wonder if knights will be worth it. I liked to run a single knight which will now cost 5 cp with relics etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/30 12:01:56
2020/06/30 12:06:33
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
as of right now im saying no. 5cp is harsh but if you want house benefits and a couple armigers its 8cp! like what the heck? Pretty much everyone in my area agrees: we hate the new LoW restrictions and are expecting it to change fairly quick. Even the mono-knight player is upset. GW is basically acting like LoW's are some unkillable godly powerhouse. When in reality most LoW's kinda suck, they tend to die to half their cost in anti-tank pretty reliably.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/30 12:07:34
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/06/30 13:16:45
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Are we taking into account the domino effects though?
We know there will be points changes, coherency changes, morale changes, objective changes, terrain changes, and a slew of other little nitpicky things that haven't been revealed or addressed, all that add up to changing the validity of a LOT of things.
I'm not trying to predict a future I cant predict, and Im certainly not trying to homer for rulestesters and pretend like they're never wrong, but I do think it's possible (if not plausible) that LOW units will be less of a squishy points sink and could justify that crazy cp cost.
Also cps and generation work differently too, so it's no longer such a huge burden to spend them.
Like a true Tomb King, change (to AoS) has left me bitter and vengeful.
Admech: I'll make Graia work some day
Drukhari: 3rd Edition Archon. WhatWouldSkariDo?
2020/06/30 13:32:42
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Yeah, but one thing we do know is they arent relieving stratagem use pressure. We will still want to burn multiple stratagems a turn, some of them being 2cp.
They've made no mention about baking certain stratagems into units and removing them, which they should do because a good deal of them should be base unit rules (striders' advance rules for example).
We know how much cp were gonna get, and we know how massively expensive a LoW is to even field let alone use optimally via strats.
I enjoyed using Preceptors with a couple melee armigers around, it wasnt ridiculously powerful but it was decently so. Im not burning 8 cp to bring it when i need to reserve 2cp on top of that to potentially sneak an extra turn with the knight via Taranis strat after it "dies" - that leaves me a measily 3cp to start the game with. 3. Too expensive.
Which really only infuriates me because i bought into admech primarily as an excuse to run a knight, as i loved the model and i dont own any guard or marines. Admech are fun on their own but when the main reason you bought the army suddenly becomes trash, even if you have many other options that are good, you still tend to get salty
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/06/30 13:37:02
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
It happens i brought my skitarii army because the whole army could scout and i wanted a mobile shooty army not a gunline and i wasn't intereste in characters..... but editions change
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/30 13:37:42
2020/06/30 13:45:06
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
U02dah4 wrote: It happens i brought my skitarii army because the whole army could scout and i wanted a mobile shooty army not a gunline and i wasn't intereste in characters..... but editions change
It wasn't "editions change". It was them shoehorning us in with Cult.
2020/06/30 13:45:30
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
i get that. 100% hate how tau work in 8th for instance but i had a blast with them in 7th (no i didnt riptide spam or do the eldar shenanigans in 6th, i ran piranhas and big firewarrior blobs mostly. It was common to see me with 2 ethereals, max firewarriors, and a cadre). Admech are still fun and engaging. Just suddenly cant realistically use the bigdaddy model.
Which i should be used to being an ork player. Stompa hasnt be usable in decades lol
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/30 13:46:11
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/06/30 13:47:45
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: as of right now im saying no. 5cp is harsh but if you want house benefits and a couple armigers its 8cp! like what the heck?
Pretty much everyone in my area agrees: we hate the new LoW restrictions and are expecting it to change fairly quick. Even the mono-knight player is upset.
GW is basically acting like LoW's are some unkillable godly powerhouse. When in reality most LoW's kinda suck, they tend to die to half their cost in anti-tank pretty reliably.
Not really
I take a low of war detatchment a questoris and two armigers and make the questoris your warlord your now paying 3CP for an admech battalion or 2CP for a patrol depending on what units you want you also have lots of scope to invest more heavily in knights or the admech portion of your list. You could still do that and run 1250ish pts of admech
Its you now have to invest more heavily in knights than a single model but then back in 7th id run two knights in a warcon and there were no armigers
Only problem i can see is if you want to run that list and try for admech monofaction but thats down to the ITC
What probably wont work is that and a cawl gunline but most knight + admech list were stygies anyway
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/30 13:49:58
2020/06/30 13:58:57
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
