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It'll be interesting to see what the new vehicle rules do for us, hopefully our mighty crab tanks will get some benefit.

I agree. I really hope that some our tougher units start to feel tough on the tabletop, even if that means a points increase. I agree that the Onager really needs some love (side note; I never knew that an onager is also an animal and a siege weapon. Kind of fitting, really).

We already know mass low ap firepower is buffed by cover changes as there will be a lot less 2+ so corouscarii vanguard get more favourable but all our characters except enginseer are liable for rewrites so its to early to tell much else it would be nice if one of our characters could actually become a viable melee unit

I do think it would be interesting to have one of our characters be designed to head into combat with sicarians or electro-priests. That might give those units a little more bite in melee and could serve as a nice buffer in front of a gun line.

Thinking more about HQs, I bet we will see the skitarii marshall only be able to lead units of skitarii. Maybe we could also get an HQ more designed around buffing our cult units, but with how few of those we have currently, I am not counting on it.

So, according to the roadmap pushed out by GW, Admech are going to be 3rd or 4th codex released, sometime in the November/December timeframe. the commentry says we are getting at least "some" new models at that time.

my 2 wild @$$ guesses are we get skitarii LT type and/or a "priestly acolytes" type unit as a cult mechanicus troop option (though time will tell if such a thing would be even a concept in 10ths new force org system.


we know the contempory style of subfactions are going away, to be replaced with themed detachments that are not subfaction/paintscheme locked (so thier might be a "good in melee and plasma" detachment that is representative of how Ryza fights, but any forge world or colour scheme can use it). my guesses would be we see a skitarii cohort type detachment, A preists of mars detachment based on cult mech units, a mechanised robot detachment with bonuses to vehicles, robots, and maybe a knight integration bonus of some sort.

anyone else wish to speculate wildly as to what we might get?

It would be great, but I think a skitarii lieutenant may be a little too similar to the skitarii marshall to happen. I’d love to be able to field some of the 30k battle automata, especially if they had a plastic kit. Also, I look forward to having paint schemes matter less, as I am planning to paint part of my army as Mars and part as Triplex Phall due to my army’s lore, so the detachment system will make dealing with that on the tabletop much easier.

Paint schemes never really mattered. Not with blue blood angels, black white scars etc running and non-marine not many even knows colours. Eldar is only one where colour schemes equally known.

Gw basically formalize what players did already and hopefully remove layers of rules in the process

I still think we are missing some artillery pieces and more servitors. I'd also like some more weird esoteric machinery that scuttles about the battlefield.

I really The secutarii to gain FW so they actually function with the army and have their abilities trigger off questor mechanicus would be nice

Their are so many fw units that could just be adopted in

I agree we could use an artillery buff but some of that could be done by making our existing artillery options functional

We're next! Hope the previews give us some much needed hope.

Not for me.
BS 4+
Save down to 5+
weak detachment rule
weak Cawl
+2 advance/charge and advance/charge is the only real good thing in that preview.

Yeah, without a decent drop in points, skitarii don’t really seem worth it, unless they really do a lot to help out our other units like they do for ruststalkers.

 FoxHybrid wrote:
Yeah, without a decent drop in points, skitarii don’t really seem worth it, unless they really do a lot to help out our other units like they do for ruststalkers.

Feels like without more info we are no better off than before the preview.

Such is the way of spoilers.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 FoxHybrid wrote:
Yeah, without a decent drop in points, skitarii don’t really seem worth it, unless they really do a lot to help out our other units like they do for ruststalkers.

Feels like without more info we are no better off than before the preview.

I feel like we got a big, big piece with regards to Cult:

Canticles are on the Techpriests now, no longer an armywide ability.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FoxHybrid wrote:
Yeah, without a decent drop in points, skitarii don’t really seem worth it, unless they really do a lot to help out our other units like they do for ruststalkers.

There's far, far too many unknowns to make any definitive "not worth it" statements. The armor save change sucks, but remember that they shoehorned the Troop choice Skitarii into effectively being "Conscripts" with the 9E book and the 20 model squad cap. We weren't going to keep a 4+ save unless they dropped that squad cap back to 10 and they seem to have 0 interest in that.

It's also important to remember that Vanguard are supposed to be the "trash" unit. They weren't supposed to be a premiere, end-all be-all shooter unit. They were supposed to be our "tarpit" for the army at large--hence their old ability that dropped Toughness by 1 for things that get close to them.

True we don't know enough. However what we where shown Stats wise looks about the worst that has been shown from all factions

Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.

I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way

U02dah4 wrote:
Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.

I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way

The problem is that there's two "Skitarii" units(when talking about that specific nomenclature. Faction-wise? Many more).

Vanguard, the souls exposed to deadly doses of radiation from their own weaponry.
vs
Rangers, the hunters of the Skitarii Legion wielding galvanic rifles.

Rangers are the gunners of the Onagers, protected from the Vanguard are stuffed into a lead-lined radiation containment chamber to pilot the things and their corpses hauled out and replaced with a fresh Vanguard when they finally expire. There's clearly a level of expendability but it isn't pointed at the Ranger side of things.

In any regards, we have "conscript equivalents" in the form of the Kataphron Heavy Battle Servitors and Servitors themselves. We didn't need to downgrade Skitarii Vanguard when they could downgrade Kataphron and release plastic Servitors.

 Kanluwen wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.

I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way

The problem is that there's two "Skitarii" units(when talking about that specific nomenclature. Faction-wise? Many more).

Vanguard, the souls exposed to deadly doses of radiation from their own weaponry.
vs
Rangers, the hunters of the Skitarii Legion wielding galvanic rifles.

Rangers are the gunners of the Onagers, protected from the Vanguard are stuffed into a lead-lined radiation containment chamber to pilot the things and their corpses hauled out and replaced with a fresh Vanguard when they finally expire. There's clearly a level of expendability but it isn't pointed at the Ranger side of things.

In any regards, we have "conscript equivalents" in the form of the Kataphron Heavy Battle Servitors and Servitors themselves. We didn't need to downgrade Skitarii Vanguard when they could downgrade Kataphron and release plastic Servitors.

They aren't "Conscript" equivalents. The Guard aren't Conscripts - they're a well-trained standing army. We are on par with them, with more advanced weaponry, at least as regards Vanguard.

Kataphrons aren't conscripts either. They're mobile heavy weapons teams, essentially. I am fine with them being about what they are currently and a downgrade would make them useless. So hopefully they don't take too much of a hit.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.

I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way

The problem is that there's two "Skitarii" units(when talking about that specific nomenclature. Faction-wise? Many more).

Vanguard, the souls exposed to deadly doses of radiation from their own weaponry.
vs
Rangers, the hunters of the Skitarii Legion wielding galvanic rifles.

Rangers are the gunners of the Onagers, protected from the Vanguard are stuffed into a lead-lined radiation containment chamber to pilot the things and their corpses hauled out and replaced with a fresh Vanguard when they finally expire. There's clearly a level of expendability but it isn't pointed at the Ranger side of things.

In any regards, we have "conscript equivalents" in the form of the Kataphron Heavy Battle Servitors and Servitors themselves. We didn't need to downgrade Skitarii Vanguard when they could downgrade Kataphron and release plastic Servitors.

They aren't "Conscript" equivalents. The Guard aren't Conscripts - they're a well-trained standing army. We are on par with them, with more advanced weaponry, at least as regards Vanguard.

Kataphrons aren't conscripts either. They're mobile heavy weapons teams, essentially. I am fine with them being about what they are currently and a downgrade would make them useless. So hopefully they don't take too much of a hit.

I don't mind their ballistics skill droping but come on a cyborg has the same armor as a guy where a flack jacket?
Nonsense. They should be save 4 minimum.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

They aren't "Conscript" equivalents. The Guard aren't Conscripts - they're a well-trained standing army.

There was literally a unit called "Conscript Squads" that only just recently got removed. Please don't pretend that I've conflated all Guardsmen with Conscripts, or that I'm the one who tried to argue that Skitarii should be our Conscript equivalent.

We are on par with them, with more advanced weaponry, at least as regards Vanguard.

Well, the Rangers are at least. Vanguard ranks are, per the lore, bolstered with serfs and penal colony "recruits". The Alphas are failed Knight Aspirants though.

Kataphrons aren't conscripts either.

They're Servitors, not soldiers. People aren't willingly agreeing to be lobotomized, cut in half, and forcibly fused to a tank body with guns replacing their arms.

They're effectively "Conscripts +1".

They're mobile heavy weapons teams, essentially.

Which is why they were BS4+ without Mindlock, compared to the 'standard' Servitor who was 5+ with Mindlock giving a 4+.

I am fine with them being about what they are currently and a downgrade would make them useless. So hopefully they don't take too much of a hit.

There's a ton of downgrades that could be done without rendering them useless. A bump downwards in armor, a reduction in unit caps, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boosykes wrote:

I don't mind their ballistics skill droping but come on a cyborg has the same armor as a guy where a flack jacket?
Nonsense. They should be save 4 minimum.

Unless Servitors drop to a 5+ as well, the guy wearing a jumpsuit with exposed bionics is a 4+ save while the same augmented individuals wearing combat armor and combat augmetics is less protected.

Boosykes wrote:


I don't mind their ballistics skill droping but come on a cyborg has the same armor as a guy where a flack jacket?
Nonsense. They should be save 4 minimum.

They have a 6++ to show they have some basic level of bionics.

They have a 6++ to replace the FNP(6+) they initially debuted with.

The 4+ save was representing their bionics being of a sturdy manufacture and Skitarii War Plate. It's the same reason as to why regular ol' Servitors in their jumpsuit had a 4+ save at the time of the publication for C: Skitarii.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boosykes wrote:

I don't mind their ballistics skill droping but come on a cyborg has the same armor as a guy where a flack jacket?
Nonsense. They should be save 4 minimum.

Unless Servitors drop to a 5+ as well, the guy wearing a jumpsuit with exposed bionics is a 4+ save while the same augmented individuals wearing combat armor and combat augmetics is less protected.

Agreed, kataphrons should be 3+ and skitarii vanguard and rangers should be 4+.

Look at the figure these guys don't just have a few bionics they are mostly metal. The legs and arms are metal they are covered in metal including full helms. Unless it is litteraly mad of tinfoil these guys should all have high saves.

About the only. Unit in admech that should be a 5+ or even 6+ are the electro priests and due to lore they should have an invuln probably around a 4++.

At the end of the day we will have to wait and see how. This pans out it just rubs me the wrong way that a guy fully encased in metal has the same save as a guards men.

U02dah4 wrote:
Lots depends on the mission if objective holding t1 is important rad bombardment is very powerful. However if it really doesn't matter I agree we look weaker.

I also don't have a problem with skitarii being conscript equivalentsits more fluffy provided their points are priced that way

Skitarii don't look to have bs5 which is conscript level.

4+ is trained soldier level. And am has easy way to make it 3+. Gw likely didn't want army wide 2+ to hit.

ok, so a tibit form todays teaser on the forge world stuff:

basically, all Horus heresy stuff that has been "ported over" to regular 40k is moving into Legends. It will get 10th ed rules, but these are not tourney legal anymore and wont be getting balance passes, being a pure casual games only, "one and done" job.

of note for the Admech is that Secutarii Hoplites and Peltasts, and Terrax-pattern Termites are on that list of "not competitive legal" units.


only forge world stuff thats staying 40k competitive are all the Knights, and the custodes stuff (seeing as FW stuff is like half their range, that makes sense).


original article here:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/01/legions-and-legends-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-models-in-games-of-warhammer-40000/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=the-horus-heresy&utm_content=hh40k01062023&fbclid=IwAR36tNlXD0L6bfbsY4T_MKex_czWCvzfCxbDc-SDK8UU8woNb5iskr0_C0E_aem_th_AbohI0fnN07jUAXWYDPnXsmdEvUmJGR9DOk2npvqUzOKFEwGdysmbIa6GId9mbPqNSc

I'm guessing the silence is the opinion of the index?

Honestly, I'm reasonably happy with it.

Theirs a interesting focus around units operating in close concert with BATTLELINE units that I like on a conceptual level. I need to see how it plays but it's cool

I think they nerfed Skitarii too hard.
The Cult Mech side of things still looks basically unusable with the exception of manipulus, Breachers and Kastellans.
Otherwise, I think that 3 Disintegrators backed by 3 Enginseers might be a staple. The guns on those are really good.

Ohhh... well. Here comes Breacher & Onager spam. Not much else seems all that appealing.

EDIT:
After much tinkering... I guess this is a list I can try? I have most of it ready, just need more Breachers (...12).

Belisarius Cawl
[185]

Tech-Priest Dominus
Excoriating Emanation
[100]

Tech-Priest Dominus
Master Annihilator
[110]

Tech-Priest Enginseer
[45]

Tech-Priest Enginseer
[45]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser
[140]

Onager Dunecrawler
Neutron Laser
[140]

Onager Dunecrawler
Icarus
[140]

Archaeopter Fusilave
[160]

(6) Kataphron Breachers (TPD)
Heavy Arc Rifle, Arc Claw
[300]

(6) Kataphron Breachers (TPD)
Torsion Cannon, Hydraulic Claw
[300]

(10) Vanguard
Arc Rifle, Plasma Caliver, CCW & AP, Omnispex
[100]

(3) Sydonian Dragoons
Taser Lances
[225]

[1990]

I have no idea if this will be worth it, but hey at least I can likely pick up AdMech units cheap right now.

 laam999 wrote:
I'm guessing the silence is the opinion of the index?

We are gathering dust

Well unless you had mechanicus knights those are still good

U02dah4 wrote:

 laam999 wrote:
I'm guessing the silence is the opinion of the index?

We are gathering dust

Well unless you had mechanicus knights those are still good

My mech knights now are too cheap so I'd need t buy another knight to fill out 2k lol.

I'm thinking of using this list as a "how to die efficiently and score"

3x6 breachers
2x manipulus
1x dominus
all HQ with an upgrade

3x10 rangers in a boat

2x vanguard on foot.


Boat rangers scout move, have 12" move and can quickly objective grab t1

vanguard advance up behind to replace dying rangers

breachers roll up behind them to replace dying vanguard.

I think it's at least worth a try.

1990 pts.... it would have been 1545 before :/

Have you guys played any games so far this edition? If so, I’d love to hear how you guys did, as well as what units you liked in what roles, and what you feel like didn’t work. I’ve heard very good things about the Omnipulus (Omni-sterilizer Manipulus) and Breachers, but not too much outside of that.