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What if our planet was found by the Imperium right now and the Crusade (pre heresy) was going on.

What countries do you think would fight/submit?

Would we accept the tech priests and the notion of machines requiring faith?

If we'd go to war, would any of our weapons be effective enough?

Would they start using any of our technology or is it all obsolete in comparison?

etc. etc.

I think the religious extremists would be the first to go.

Can the mods please delete this...

not the first time I've seen this exact thread rear its ugly head.

kill it with fire

Thanks for the input FORUM RULES ARE AWESOME !

Yeah this will just turn into a flame war on which country is better, but the OP's second comment was hilarious.

Iceland will unleash the might of its volcano .... wait a minute

i meant that imperium will kill us with fire

This topic has been posted more times than photocopies were made of the tennis player scratching her butt. I recommend a thread lock.

But yea, I don't really see how this can turn into a flamewar, apart from the obvious things you guys seem to be intent on.

Language please gents !

Preumably it isn't a new Idea, but it sounds interesting all the same. Putting aside the fact earth might be recognised as ancient terra itself, I think it would be an interesting match up.

1) If it came to fighting, then Britain would fight, America would fight, as would (I guess) our allies. The rest of the world would soon follow. This is however, the view of an optimist.

2) No. Absolutely not, we see the evidence against it every day, thus we would have no reason to accept it. We would laugh at them for even suggesting it.

3) If we had to fight, I think we would do quite well, at least against the Imperial Army (pre heresy Guard). Against Space Marines we might have more trouble - Their armour would just be too tough.
We have some weapons which could penetrate it, but in the end I think it would come down to how many Space Marines were in the area. Anything up to 10'000 I think we would stand a chance against.

4)They would use our creativeness, our technology less so. Bear in mind that although most of the technology in the 40k universe is rapidly stagnating, it is still far more advanced than what we have currently.

We do however, seem to have a level of ingenuity and creativeness that the Imperium just don't seem to be able to match.

On a side note - does anyone know any fanfics related to this subject?

No not a flamewar, just that this topic comes up regulary and rarely with a new way of thinking so most people get fed up with it. But considering I'm posting a second time I may at least contribute.

All major powers would instantly submit the moment their true strength was revealed.

Lesser powers would also most likely submit with a few who would probraly resort to terrorism and such.

As for tech priest, the majority would play along, though we all know there are nutters in the world that would embrace this kind of thing.

Our weapons are heretical and therefore we'd have to use their weapons, flashlights for all .. yay!

Well, judging from novels, Targeting systems for our tanks and such seem somehow superior. Though that may just be in the writing.

The composite armor on our tanks(M1A1 Abrams) would be equivilant to a Land raider, but they have Heat and Plasma based weaponry that could melt its way through.


Titans would likely be pointless against us. few targets large enough and plenty of weapons that could feasably damage them.


we likely would have a supierior airforce. Direct fire lascannons vs homing AP missiles.

but likely a treaty would be drawn up by major powers drawing out terms of tribute and things might be left pretty much alone.

our Tech would be examined, useful stuff taken and non useful stuff thrown out. technically tech made entirly by humans is not heritical.

The Mechanicum treats its tech like it has a soul. our tech would be on an animal level when compared to theirs. non intelligent vs intelligent.

Your forgetting that most things in 40K are made out of ceremite(spelling) so in actual fact 40K weapons would cut through our Modern day tanks as though they were AV10 possibly AV11.

Thats my opinion based on what I've seen, I have no facts to back that up before anyone jumps on my back

Yea, nor do we have any metal that can stand up to adamantium. So (space marine)chainswords may actually be able to shred lightly armored vehicles.

And I don't think any of our modern anti-tank weapons could dent baneblades and variants.

As for Titans, anything short of dropping H-bombs on them won't work. Void shields can take pretty much anything we can throw at them.

Naval forces would probably have the most effective weapons against the Imperiums weapons. But those are also the least available.

And I don't think we've got much to throw at ships in orbit either. Nukes really would be our only option, and we all know where that would lead.

According to my games of BFG, Imperial Ships use basic Torpedo's, I imagine that they'd be more powerful as our missiles, but wouldn't be nuclear based. Therefore Our nukes would proberly be able to do severe damage if launch in volley as the orbiting fleets would require fighters to take them out. Again according to BFG capital ships find it nigh impossible to shoot down missile/torpedo's without fighter support due to the speed and size

The whole psycho-religious aspect of the Imperium didn't start to really become prominent until some decades/centuries after the heresy, so there wouldn't really be a need for systematic purges. No doubt every country would be split in opinion, so there would be both collaborators and rebels from every nation.

Nukes are about all we got that would make a dent. That, and perhaps chemical/biologic agents. Even if we adopted a scorched earth strategy (which means we lose regardless), we'd still likely get subjugated in short order. After one or two generations die in brutal gulags, the survivors would fall in line. Isolated rebel camps may persist as wilderness-dwelling savages, but their impact would be negligible.

Even if we somehow put up enough of a fight to stave-off conquest, they'd just strip the planet of any resources and technology they were interested in, and then bomb the rest from orbit. What's one planet among millions?

Terminus wrote:The whole psycho-religious aspect of the Imperium didn't start to really become prominent until some decades/centuries after the heresy, so there wouldn't really be a need for systematic purges.

Pre Heresy the Crusades were all about spreading there secular ideas of the Truth. There were no thoughts of the machine god outside of the Mechanicus Cults so there would be no trying to convince us our cars cared. But the Imperium would squash all of our religions as childish nonsense and superstition as they did with every other world they found in the crusades.

Ok, so a brief systematic purge of fundamentalists.

imperium comes, people tell them no,,, orbital bombardments... guardsmen/spacemarines walk around a little...... done

epil wrote:imperium comes, people tell them no,,, orbital bombardments... guardsmen/spacemarines walk around a little...... done

Don't you mean, "Imperium comes, people tell them no,,, orbital bombardments... guardsmen entrench themselves for a battle and are near victory when the space marines HURR arrive and win the day and steal all the credit"

Soladrin wrote:What if our planet was found by the Imperium right now and the Crusade (pre heresy) was going on.

What countries do you think would fight/submit?

Would we accept the tech priests and the notion of machines requiring faith?

If we'd go to war, would any of our weapons be effective enough?

Would they start using any of our technology or is it all obsolete in comparison?

etc. etc.

I think the religious extremists would be the first to go.

I would win... end of story...

You lose by default.

I had this discussion amongst friends. One of my friends had an interesting point: nowadays we have weapons so smart, they can be launched from here, fly to a target's house, knock on the door, ask if he's home, and if he's home KILL HIM. In the 41st Millenium, they have to roll to see if it hits.

Imperium has titans .. .. pray they don't knock on your door

HellsGuardian316 wrote:Imperium has titans .. .. pray they don't knock on your door

Two words: tactical nuke.

Two more words: heavy bombers (Tau have proven those are very effective against Titans).

Four words: long-range cruise missiles.

I'm sorry, but as cool as Titans are, they'd be so impractical in actual warfare. There's a reason why modern militaries have never given large bipedal walkers a second thought.

Before someone says "void shields": void shields can be collapsed with enough firepower. 'nuff said.

But in all seriousness, we'd lose if the Imperium invaded just due to the fact that they have the edge technologically.

Nukes are not the silver bullet many of you seem to think they are. The main reason they are scary is because of their wide area of affect, not their armor piercing ability. Now don't take that to mean I'm saying they are not very powerful at ground zero, but even today we have armor that can withstand a nuclear detonation, and imperial armor is likely designed for just that scenario.

Remember that the Imperial Armies likely specialize in fighting worlds like are, and are extremely good at it. It has been suggested numerous times that the reason the IG and SM armies fight the way they do is due to the massive amounts of jamming present on a 40k battlefield. Even technologically savvy races like the Eldar and Tau to not make heavy use of long range remote weapons or long range communications, likely because it is simply not possible. That is a major reason that psychic communication is so valuable, it cannot be jammed. Combine this with the numerous, advanced, and even daemonic electronic attacks we know are available, and we have a good reason that armies attempt to avoid automated weaponry and tactics that rely on long range communication.

Modern armies simply cannot function well while being jammed. It is the first step in any modern military campaign, and very effective. I has also been implied on several occasions (and I'm rather partial to this theory) that Imperial technology is not based on the traditional electronic circuits. It is very likely then that heavy EM attacks go hand in hand with jamming, rendering a heavily computerized military like ours useless.

This is supported by the military doctrines of the armies in 40k. Assume for a moment they are not just stupid. We have a habit of viewing other eras this way. For instance most people go through a phase where they see Napoleonic tactics as stupid (lining up in brightly colored jackets and shooting en-mass), but when you begin to study the era you realize that in actuality their tactics were simply a product of the military technology available at the time, and good tactics for their time at that.

Assume the same for 40k. All the 40k armies seem to avoid long range remote weapons, work very hard to maintain line of sight and the ability to command as such, radios that seem more advanced than their modern day equivalence, but for some reason have a very short range, long range weapons that rely on either line of sight or calculated trajectories rather than guided weapons, and basically build their entire military doctrine around minimizing long range communication. All weaponry must have a biological operator present, even those that DO have some sort of automated assistance, and can apparently operate independently (i.e. Land Raider). Even when they do use automated systems they will only do it buy co-opting a biological brain, likely as a countermeasure to the advanced electronic warfare tactics. Most of this gets passed off as superstition, but I lean more towards the idea that these limitations were put in place for good reason, but after 10k years of constant warfare most people don't remember why anymore. Warfare has become such a part of their daily routine that the difference between religion and good tactics and common sense is nonexistent. War has become second nature, a part of their daily lives, just like their religion, and they can no longer separate the two. That doesn't mean their knowledge is wrong, just that it is mingled with a lot of holy phrases.

And all of that points to a battlefield where jamming, EM attacks, and incredibly advanced forms of electronic warfare have made things like cruise missiles, long range communications, and any number of other modern military advancements have become useless.

As for the armor...I just don't buy that modern armor can be compared to the armor in 40k. A land raider regularly takes blasts from miniature suns and las cannons that I fully believe would melt any modern armor like butter.

Now I will agree that titans are not built for efficiency. They are walking temples meant to raise moral and cow the locals. However, I also think they may be used to extend line of sight communications, allowing for a greater battlefield control and communications. Basically, they are walking hills/communication towers for when none are available, and long range communications are not possible. Combine that with the imperials religious fanaticism and it only makes sense that the place the world of the imperial comes from would be a cathedral. Again, assume that maybe, just maybe, they do things for a reason.

Finally, ground war is a last resort in the imperium, largely reserved for recapturing valuable imperial installations and avoiding the destruction of valuable technology. We are neither valuable as an installation, nor do we have valuable technology. I doubt we would ever see a ground war. Space superiority would be easily established, surrender demanded, and cities destroyed until we capitulated.

I'm one of the first to step forward in defending the utility of the imperial armies, but there is no point to them ever setting foot on earth.

Would they begin using our technology? No, I don't think so. Imperial technology outstrips everything we have. The only reason we seem more advanced than so much of the Imperium is do to poor technology penetration. To paraphrase someone else on this board, the peasants have to walk or ride horses, the nobility has flying cars.

In conclusion, the Imperium is built to conquer worlds like ours, and spend most of their time doing so, not fighting xeno. They are not stupid or backward, but simply a product of a different military enviroment.

Networks and technology actually require faith in Spain so... we wouldn't refuse the Imperium.

Erasoketa wrote:Networks and technology actually require faith in Spain so... we wouldn't refuse the Imperium.

no! i confess that i was tempted to praise at the machine spirit of my motorcycle to make them run properly during my job duty (it is well said?)

jokes apart, if only technology was a nearly mistic matter in Spain we could be happy but thinking how the youngsters behave and talk, a chaos worshiper of DOW can be seen as a native spanish of the last generations.... they talk bad and in a nearly uncomprehensive way with an awesome lack of culture and manners...

I think the Imperium will annihilate us all! just at the mere sight of one of these.....people that i was talking about, just exterminatus!, they cannot let them spread their corruption!