New Tau Release: Stormsurge, Ghostkeel, Coldstar, Breachers, Crisis, Tidewall!. Codex coming!

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Hulksmash**

Kahnawake wrote:
This terrain piece looks so easy to scratch build... At this price I doubt it will be selling well

Kahnawake

I'd bet the opposite. I'd say it's going to sell extremely well. Personally to me it's worth the cash at 25% off instead of the materials and time I'd have to invest to create something that still won't look nearly as good. I don't know many people in this hobby who could make something like that and it be the same level as the GW one without spending more than their time is worth doing it.

**silent25**

Warhams-77 wrote:
On a more serious note this text confirms that the platform is floating and can actually move around on the battlefield - advancing to and withdrawing from the enemy - if need be.

Spoiler:

Might have missed it, but is that a new Ethereal at the center of the fortification? Don't recognize the figure.

**notredameguy10**

silent25 wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
On a more serious note this text confirms that the platform is floating and can actually move around on the battlefield - advancing to and withdrawing from the enemy - if need be.

Spoiler:

Might have missed it, but is that a new Ethereal at the center of the fortification? Don't recognize the figure.

Yes, That is the one that comes with the Tau/DA campaign box set

**Co'tor Shas**

Yeah, there are better pics of him in the sets.

**Kanluwen**

silent25 wrote:
Warhams-77 wrote:
On a more serious note this text confirms that the platform is floating and can actually move around on the battlefield - advancing to and withdrawing from the enemy - if need be.

Spoiler:

Might have missed it, but is that a new Ethereal at the center of the fortification? Don't recognize the figure.

$110 USD.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

notredameguy10 wrote:

Yes, That is the one that comes with the Tau/DA campaign box set

Raven Guard, not DA.

**Caederes**

Warhams-77 wrote:
On a more serious note this text confirms that the platform is floating and can actually move around on the battlefield - advancing to and withdrawing from the enemy - if need be.

Cheers for the share and confirmations! We officially have our first ever moving terrain.....good god I can't wait to see its rules.

@Kanluwen - That's true, personally I've been on the receiving end of a FSC too often so I'd be happy lol.

**Kanluwen**

Also, apparently the terrain bundle and army boxes are "while stocks last".

**BrookM**

FSC?

**pretre**

BrookM wrote:
FSC?

The Riptide/Broadside dataslate.

**Kanluwen**

BrookM wrote:
FSC?

Firebase Support Cadre.

**TheNewBlood**

Dr. Delorean wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the devilfish saw a price drop - maybe to 55-60pts?

in a world where the Venom and Raider cost 65 points? Not bloody likely. The lowest I can see the Devilfish is going is 80 points. If you want a price decrease, the upgrades and weapons are where you're most likely to see it. Outflank would open up a lot of options as well.

warboss wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

And out of those four books, the only one which is demonstrably broken is the Eldar one.

If you really wanted to make a point about it being a book that "lags behind", you could have just inserted any book that was published pre-Necrons. But no. You picked Orks, a book which was actually pretty good in terms of balancing.

It might have been fine internally but that only matters if orks only ever face orks. As for only the eldar being broken, you and I have vastly different views on what constitutes being broken. I, for instance, think being able to take 2300pts in a 2000pt game ON TOP OF a mess of special rules you didn't previously have is broken. YMMV. That, however, is the new standard along with Eldar D-weaponry and wraithknights.

Considering that the units leaked so far are better than ninety percent of the Ork codex and Tau have actual unit synergy, I don't think that Tau will be as bad a Orks. Orks had a better 4th edition codex than the one they have currently, while Tau can only get better.

Are we talking about War Convocation, or Eldar? War Convocation is OP as all get out when given drop pods, but is a lot more manageable if everything is footslogging. If you're complaining about the free upgrades and wargear, I invite you to check out their lists or relics and wargear; some of them aren't worth being free. Eldar have some ridiculously overpowered units (Scatbikers, Wraithknights, anything with a D-weapon) but other than that are actually quite balanced.

**Warhams-77**

My mistake, Sad Panda posted this in response to the Farsight Enclave book not the FSC

Sad Panda - DakkaDakka

TheNewBlood wrote:

I'm afraid that this might be a sign that Farsight Enclaves might be gong the way of the Iyanden supplement: no longer valid. Maybe they'll do the opposite of the Eldar codex, and just change it to Codex: Tau!

Keep an eye out for the campaign books. The odd "Decurion" or two may appear there.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/2280/651154.page#8177940

**Co'tor Shas**

TheNewBlood wrote:
Dr. Delorean wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the devilfish saw a price drop - maybe to 55-60pts?

in a world where the Venom and Raider cost 65 points? Not bloody likely. The lowest I can see the Devilfish is going is 80 points. If you want a price decrease, the upgrades and weapons are where you're most likely to see it. Outflank would open up a lot of options as well.

That's what it is already... I think 65-75 would be about right.

**Red Corsair**

There is nothing wrong with its cost currently, people have no right to complain as much as they do about the devilfish. It has to movement blocking PITA drones with TL S5 pinning weapons, better AV then a Chimera and it's upgrades are crazy. The Fact it gets jink as a tank is also insane, skimmer or not.

Anyone expecting it to decrease can expect some tears because I fully expect its cost to remain the same if not increase while its upgrades get nerfed to high heaven. No way disruption pods remain the same.

**Caederes**

It's more the fact that it pays quite a bit for guns it can rarely use. I personally don't think they are that bad but I understand why a lot of people dislike them as they got a heavy nerf in 6th Edition.

**Vector Strike**

Warhams-77 wrote:
On a more serious note this text confirms that the platform is floating and can actually move around on the battlefield - advancing to and withdrawing from the enemy - if need be.

OH YEAH! Now that's Tau ingenuity at it's best!

**Vash108**

I actually want one of these moving fortifications. They look pretty sweet.

**LockeWatts**

They didn't, and honestly? The FSC probably is going to be gone.

Do you have any proof or substance to this claim, or are you just making stuff up?

**Lord Ruby34**

I very much want the new floating building thing. I have no idea how practical it is or if I'd actually manage to use it, but it looks super sweet.

As for the breachers I'd like for them to be good, simply because it would promote a more mobile style of play than ye olde fire warrior gunline, which I like, but many people don't seem to enjoy playing against.

**Vryce**

Caederes wrote:
Vryce wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why people keep saying that the Ghostkeel is "the best assault unit we have."

When did this happen..? WS2/I2 is now an assault statline? So far as I can tell it has the same assault capabilities as a Riptide with less strength, toughness and no invuln save.

And, Dr. Deloreon, it is the "post-Eldar metagame". And because GW set the bar so high with them, and similarly Necrons, we have to be able to combat that. So far, with the leaks we're seeing, the tools we're given aren't quite up to the task. Yes, we got a solid new unit - Ghostkeel - but the other two, well.. they suck, to be frank. A WK will rip off a Stormsurge's head and down it's throat. It can't effectively engage the very units they were supposedly designed to combat. And the Breachers simply have no place. We already have more effective means of dealing with 3+ or better armor.

There are very easy answers to all of these questions.
For its points the Ghostkeel IS the best assault unit we have if you compare it to anything else in the codex. It's 50-90 points cheaper than a Riptide (depending on how much you kit the latter out) despite retaining the exact same close combat stats. It's not anything special compared to other codices but a Ghostkeel can still defend itself reasonably well in combat and take on smaller non-elite units just fine. As an FYI, WS2 and I2 don't matter when you still hit WS4 (the majority of units in the game are WS4 or less) on a 4+, your Toughness 5 still makes you pretty resistant to those units you want to be charging. It is also Strength 6 just like a Riptide.

The Ghostkeel is not "solid". It's being widely received as a very powerful unit. A unit that has a 2+ cover save in the open, good firepower (the Raker specifically), good mobility and a one-use-only form of Invisibility is extremely good for 130 base points. It's one of the most shooting-resistant units in the game when you consider that aside from Tau Ignores Cover is not that common - if Ignores Cover was as common as naysayers of the Ghostkeel speak of, why are Ravenwing such a top tier army?

Stormsurges do not "suck" as any major tournament player will tell you. The problem here is that you are comparing a fairly balanced unit (the Stormsurge) to a horrendously under-priced unit (the Wraithknight). Fair units like the Stormsurge should be the norm with Wraithknights as the aberrations, hence why comparing the two is silly as there's no GMC in the game aside from the Ta'unar that compares well to a Wraithknight. Once the community begins to realize that the Stormsurge is not actually designed to be a titan-killer (which is just marketing speak) and that it shouldn't be compared to a Wraithknight (which is a product of terrible balancing), they will realize that is a fine but not great or bad unit. It's just a good balanced unit that is arguably the first to fit that criteria for GMCs in the game.

Breachers are a different story altogether. They are entirely dependent on Devilfishes getting buffed or somehow gaining an alternate deployment method as otherwise the unit doesn't function without a good delivery system. If they can get free Devilfishes or Devilfishes drop in points significantly then they will see use as this solves their main problem. Even without Markerlights they tend to make their points back and more the moment they disembark to within 5" and shoot something which is not something you can say for most Troops choices in the game (the obvious exception being Windriders). As for how charging Breachers works, if you are charging them through cover without Fleet/Move Through Cover/some kind of re-roll you need to be 5" away to make it assuming average rolls. They aren't perfect but the fact that 10 of them will one-shot a T6 W5 3+ save monstrous creature for 90 points when firing at 5" without Markerlights or available cover is impressive, and like anything Tau they become godly strong with Markerlights. Again, they are dependent on Devilfishes and possibly on Markerlights as well. If Devilfishes get big buffs, they will be a fine unit, and if Devilfishes stay about the same, you probably won't see them much at all.

I think you mistook my speaking of the Ghostkeel as "solid" to mean that it's lackluster or somehow sub-par. It is not, like you, I actually see it as a very good unit with great utility and I will definitely add these to my force. My main concern is that people keep referring to it as "the best assault unit we have". When it's not. If so, you would see people charging their Riptides into assaults. The major difference, of course, being that Riptides cannot (currently, who knows what will happen when the codex drops) be taken in units. Sure, you can use them to finish off a diminished squad of Tac marines (essentially the 'gold standard' of general troops, due to the ubiquity in which they enjoy), but that same unit will just as easily be shot off the board on your next shooting phase anyway. I will, however, admit to using my Riptide once to assault two Ravenwing bikers in the hopes of denying teleport homers for his Deathwing. It was a gamble that thankfully paid off, but using it as a standard tactic is dangerous at best and game changing at worst. Saying these are the best assault unit we have access to, is like saying getting kicked in the shin is better than being kicked in the jimmies. Yes, one IS preferable to the other, but both still suck and neither is desirable.

Also, I see the argument that comparing 'x unit of LoW (non-character, ex. Logan, Mephy, Ghazzy)/Superheavy/GMC' to a WK is silly because WK is OP/undercosted/broken'. Well, sadly, the bar was set with the WK. It was the first GMC, it is the standard to which all others will be compared to, simply because you can only compare a LoW/GMC to another GMC/LoW. You can't simply hand-wave the comparison away because the WK is considered (rightly so) to be broken. It exists, and is fielded, and is the best. And the statement stands - the Stormsurge vs. a WK is a lost battle for the 'surge. For the role it marketed to, as an anti-superheavy, it will fail. Miserably. It may be balanced, especially within the Tau codex, but an internally balanced codex only matters if you are fighting an opponent of the same codex. It may be able to compete w/ IK's due to them being vehicles and suffering the problems that all vehicles do in 40k, but that failing resides in the vehicle rules, not because of any ground-breaking abilities the Stormsurge has.

Breachers will always suffer from the simple fact that if in the right situation and if the mandatory transport required to get them into that situation get a buff - they will be devastating. Anything outside of that sweet spot range, you are better off with standard Firewarriors. Their Firepower is constant at a better range band and are therefore more safe from assaults. I freely admit that there may be supporting units or rules in the new 'dex that can change how we view them currently, especially due to the high likelihood of Formation special rules, but even then, they will remain a highly specialized, situational unit that will rely on a host of variables to fall correctly into place for them to be truly effective.

**GI_Redshirt**

Kanluwen wrote:
Also, apparently the terrain bundle and army boxes are "while stocks last".

Source on this? Or is just a rumor?

**Atia**

GI_Redshirt wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Also, apparently the terrain bundle and army boxes are "while stocks last".

Source on this? Or is just a rumor?

here you go

**Vash108**

Atia wrote:
GI_Redshirt wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Also, apparently the terrain bundle and army boxes are "while stocks last".

Source on this? Or is just a rumor?

here you go

Spoiler:

Well that is dissapointing.

**MoD_Legion**

Yellow = limited edition? :O

**Bulldogging**

That sucks, why in the hell would a tabletop gaming company(or even a model company) limit important things like terrain and scenery.

If the rules are good you'll be able to pick it up on Ebay for about 500 bucks so don't worry.

**MoD_Legion**

Perhaps the other terrain did not sell as well as they'd want and they think that making it limited will make people rush to get it.

**Vash108**

MoD_Legion wrote:
Yellow = limited edition? :O

It says AWSL by them which I assume means "All While Stocks Last"

**derling**

AtoMaki wrote:

The second number in the code refers to the role of the suit and has nothing to do with its weight class:

XVx1 – Designates a Batttlesuit of any mass class believed to only exist as a theoretical prototype or developmental model.
XVx2 – Designates a prototype Battlesuit of any mass class that has progressed to field trial testing.
XVx3 – Designates a Battlesuit of any mass class that has not entered mass production and has been assigned permanently to its pilot.
XVx4 – Designates a Battlesuit of any mass class approved for the command and control role.
XVx5 – Designates a Battlesuit of any mass class outfitted with Tau stealth technology.
XVx6 – Designates an air-space Battlesuit unit of any mass class.
XVx7 – Designates a Battlesuit of any mass class intended to facilitate infiltration.
XVx8 – Designates a fire support Battlesuit unit of any mass class.
XVx9 – Designates a Battlesuit of any mass class designed for frontline assaults.

I'm not picking on the OP of this, to be clear and not even on his focus of the Air-Space Suit. It's the source material provided above (which is "legitimate")

I used to love this bit of Background material and still do, but don't think it has much stock anymore. as an aside, The XVx9 nomenclature was actaully added on to fit the FW Hazard suits. Prior, The Studio Considered 8 the highest their numbering system would allow (The Tau operated sometimes in a Base8 system) anything above XV-88 would be allocated to a different category altogether (indicating it would require more than one person to pilot).

Though like much of the 40k universe in the past 5 years, the official Canon has changed wildly to suite the needs of marketing.

XV-9 now exist, Y'he used to mean "Destiny" or "Death"....Now it just means "Tyranids" (most like a trivial change in meaning, , but I still don't like it)

You know the old Tau saying, "the one constant in the universe is change. The wise ... put little stock in their favorite Background material retaining factual consitancy"

**Vash108**

MoD_Legion wrote:
Perhaps the other terrain did not sell as well as they'd want and they think that making it limited will make people rush to get it.

Every limited terrain they have sold sells out immediately if I am not mistaken. So I guess it is working. Jut sucks if you really wanted it and now you have to get gouged on eBay.

**derling**

Hey,

I've been following this thread for a good while now. I haven't been able to identify recent threads identifying when the new Tau Codex is coming out. This thread spins very quickly, so I could have missed it. Does anyone know? At my current state, the new model rules are being provided in WD, so I have nothing indicating an actual codex is imminent.

Can someone point me to the the obvious errors of my ways?