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I was looking at the Valkyrie and I was thinking....Man,how cool would that be If it was for the black legion?

So yeah,should I attempt this? I would most likely spend several hundred dollars on this, seeing as how I need at least two valkyries and like 3 chaos tank sprues for both of them... I can buy some chaos rhinos to get the pieces (i'll just throw the rhinos away tho,lol).

But yeah,this has always seemed like a cool project to me, so give me some advice. I was thinking about hanging some chained up bodies off the back of the plane and a bunch of disturbing things (like a body caught in the thruster,oohh scary!)

you can get the tank accesory sprue at games work shop.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1080001&rootCatGameStyle=
Also, make sure the people you play with are cool with you useing the model before you build it. Would suck if they had a problem with your using them after all the time to build/paint.
This would be viable in apoc battles either way though cuz you can mix armies, guard/CSM and its ok rule wise.

It would look cool and be fluffy, but yeah, think about how often you'll actually be able to play it - I hate it when I spend months on a conversion that then sits on a shelf gathering dust.

Modellingwise, check out the Serenity DVD, has some nice looted/captured space vehicles that may give you inspration.

Of course, that's for a recently looted/captured vehicle - you could instead go for a more ancient and chaosified vehicle, perhaps even mutated or rebuilt by chaos techs. That could be a whole lot of work though.

Black Legion CSM? No. Chaos Marines do not fit in valkyries.
However, Black Legion associated traitor guard... sure! It'd be pretty weird if it was just chaos marines plus a valkyrie though. I know how you feel though, it is a cool kit and all.

ph34r wrote:Black Legion CSM? No. Chaos Marines do not fit in valkyries.
However, Black Legion associated traitor guard... sure! It'd be pretty weird if it was just chaos marines plus a valkyrie though. I know how you feel though, it is a cool kit and all.

Grey Knights can fit, why cant CSM's?

Mistress of minis wrote:

ph34r wrote:Black Legion CSM? No. Chaos Marines do not fit in valkyries.
However, Black Legion associated traitor guard... sure! It'd be pretty weird if it was just chaos marines plus a valkyrie though. I know how you feel though, it is a cool kit and all.

Grey Knights can fit, why cant CSM's?

Since when? Grey Knights have Thunderhawks.

Kanluwen wrote:

Mistress of minis wrote:

ph34r wrote:Black Legion CSM? No. Chaos Marines do not fit in valkyries.
However, Black Legion associated traitor guard... sure! It'd be pretty weird if it was just chaos marines plus a valkyrie though. I know how you feel though, it is a cool kit and all.

Grey Knights can fit, why cant CSM's?

Since when? Grey Knights have Thunderhawks.

Kan- do you jsut say things to be contrary?

What GK have, has nothing to do with what I said.

I said they CAN fit, not that they have Valks.

If I have an IG army with GK allies- I can stuff the GK marines in the valkyrie.

Ergo, if GK's can fit, CSM's can too (both fit in rhinos and Landraiders- and even chimera).

I'm just unaware of anywhere whatsoever that has said that Grey Knights are able to use Valkyries.

Ph34r stated a fluff reference. Same fluff reference states that Astartes are too large to fit in Valkyries.

Was there some kind of FAQ allowing it? Because if so: it's wrong.

Of course you should! Actually I should say that we demand it!


//Edge

Kanluwen wrote:I'm just unaware of anywhere whatsoever that has said that Grey Knights are able to use Valkyries.

Ph34r stated a fluff reference. Same fluff reference states that Astartes are too large to fit in Valkyries.

Was there some kind of FAQ allowing it? Because if so: it's wrong.

Ph34r stated an opinion- no actual fluff references were made.

And- 40k FAQ's are based exclusion- not inclusion, they tell you what you cant do. So, until theres an FAQ that states more than is in the Valkyrie entry (ie: pg 56 IG Codex: "Transport- A Valkyrie has a transport capacity of twelve models. It cannot carry Ogryns.") you can transport any models that are legal in the army.

It specifies NOT carrying Ogryn, but no other model types are excluded.

And on the FAQ's being 'wrong', you may want to realize you arent always right- just willing to hijack threads with arguments.

Mistress of minis wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm just unaware of anywhere whatsoever that has said that Grey Knights are able to use Valkyries.

Ph34r stated a fluff reference. Same fluff reference states that Astartes are too large to fit in Valkyries.

Was there some kind of FAQ allowing it? Because if so: it's wrong.

Ph34r stated an opinion- no actual fluff references were made.

And- 40k FAQ's are based exclusion- not inclusion, they tell you what you cant do. So, until theres an FAQ that states more than is in the Valkyrie entry (ie: pg 56 IG Codex: "Transport- A Valkyrie has a transport capacity of twelve models. It cannot carry Ogryns.") you can transport any models that are legal in the army.

It specifies NOT carrying Ogryn, but no other model types are excluded.

And on the FAQ's being 'wrong', you may want to realize you arent always right- just willing to hijack threads with arguments.

Are the Taros Campaign, Anphelion Project, and IA1 books good enough for fluff references?

But I think I misunderstood your original statement anyways.

Putting it simply, my stance is thus:
If someone wants to build a Valkyrie or two for a Traitor Guard unit that's associated with Black Legion? That's awesome.

But, personally, I dislike people trying to shoehorn them into a list that doesn't have them(quite possibly for a very, very good reason too) without trying to find a way to really really justify it or having an allied force involved.

Kanluwen wrote:
Are the Taros Campaign, Anphelion Project, and IA1 books good enough for fluff references?

But I think I misunderstood your original statement anyways.

Putting it simply, my stance is thus:
If someone wants to build a Valkyrie or two for a Traitor Guard unit that's associated with Black Legion? That's awesome.

But, personally, I dislike people trying to shoehorn them into a list that doesn't have them(quite possibly for a very, very good reason too) without trying to find a way to really really justify it or having an allied force involved.

I havent read those, so I have no idea. Regardless- Ph34r didnt mention them as fluff references

And my original statement has nothing to do with fluff. I stated CSMs would fit, since GK's can. You could even legally stick 6 GK termies in a Valkyrie,

I never said it was 'right', 'fluffy', nor 'proper' per the written 'law' of the almighty GW fluff. (And bear in mind-they jerk the fluff around to fit whatever codex they're writing in order to sell more models- like the previously unheard of Stormravens- where the fluff for those? Same as the Valk before that.)

But, a chaos Valkyrie converted into a flying demon machine with some cool sculpts and a wicked paint job would be alot of fun for Apocalypse games or freindly games at home. With the codex escalation of flyers and drop pods into every new dex, they arent going to unbalance the Chaos dex compared to the BA.

And would some Black Legion marines let some weedy IG have the cool ride, or would they kick them out and take it themselves?

And you may not like it- but that shouldn't in any way limit the fun someone else can have with the idea. You dont have to play against it

I say break out the sculpting putty, and turn a valkyrie into an awesome flying posessed warmachine if thats something you'd have fun doing (just keep in mind the fluff purists will cry over the 'ruined' valk)

Well, just as a sidenote about the Valkyrie's background...

It's been existing in the fluff since 2003, which was Imperial Armour Volume One: Imperial Guard & Imperial Navy. It's always been an Imperial Guard/Navy vehicle, since the inception. Chaos has its own assault craft for their Traitor Guard regiments(they're as of yet, unnamed, but have cropped up in the fluff. Mostly in "Double Eagle" by Dan Abnett) to use in airborne deployments.

However--it's also something an Inquisitor and his cronies would use as an "assault" ride, versus the normal Aquila Lander(which is virtually unarmed and decently armored) or the Arvus Lighter(unarmed, unarmored compared to Aquilas/Valkyries, and basically only good for transporting ammunition/supplies to secured landing zones).

With that bit of fluff out of the way:
If you really want to be creative and make a Valkyrie "Chaosified"?

Make a Hardened Veteran Squad of Black Legion Infiltrators mounted in a Valkyrie. If nothing else: it's a great project to have as a display.

the only restriction in the codex is for ogryn. i believe the faq on GW's site says it can NOT transport termies also. other than that, i can't remember any other infantry that are excluded from riding in a valk. power armor GK should be ok but GK termies are out. same for chaos equivalents.

+1 to everything Mistress of Minis posted.

Edit: Except that the FAQ disallows terminators aboard Valkyries.

But, ehm who would pilot it?

Not sure but I bet that CSM do not fit in those chairs.
Anyway, why not get the forgeworld gunship things, problem solved because they can't carry anything as far as I know.
And rule wise Traitor guard aren't allowed to ride falk's either.


To the OP: Go ahead, just do it. Valk's would fit in if you just convert them like the rest of your tanks.

Dang elusive FAQ's.....totally ruined my planned 'Rain if Steel' Grav Chuting terminator idea!!!

Having a terminator fall on your head- that should be like a 40mm template of at least s4, with pinning!


But for the post- the Valkyrie is an awesome kit. Its uberness should be shared with as many armies as possible that currently lack uberness of thier own.

Heck, Im tempted to make one for my Night Lords army now- it would look awesome with hte dark blue and lightning paint job

Mistress of minis wrote:Having a terminator fall on your head- that should be like a 40mm template of at least s4, with pinning!

I'd say 3" I mean the guy weight as much as a tank. Auto pinn on everything with save of worse then 3+!

Mistress of minis wrote:Heck, Im tempted to make one for my Night Lords army now- it would look awesome with hte dark blue and lightning paint job

Agreed totally.


On topic:
Are you going to have CSM standing in the cargo bay? If that would fit I would let you play it without any possible problems.

I really just want to do this so I have something cool to look at,lol!

Game-wise, it would be mainly a LR proxy, because my friends are too lame about special models (tried to turn a LR into a LR maximus, they wouldn't let me because it didn't have HK missiles...omg).

It would be great If I could use it like an IG Valkyrie, but If I'm going to use it for casual games, it needs more firepower to be CSM.

I'd probably use it with:
2 Twin-linked Lascannons
2 Reaper autocannons
1 Battlecannon
13 F, 12 S, 11 R Armor values

This would look great..I can imagine a giant battlecannon in some ridiculous place.. The other stuff is easy though, as there's a place for lascannons and other stuff.

Mistress of minis wrote:

ph34r wrote:Black Legion CSM? No. Chaos Marines do not fit in valkyries.
However, Black Legion associated traitor guard... sure! It'd be pretty weird if it was just chaos marines plus a valkyrie though. I know how you feel though, it is a cool kit and all.

Grey Knights can fit, why cant CSM's?

GK can fit fluffwise only in the same way that terminators could physically occupy the space. They don't use them. They are not designed for power armor of any type. The closest to a space marine that will occupy a Valk is a buff inquisitor in power armor.

ph34r wrote:

Mistress of minis wrote:

ph34r wrote:Black Legion CSM? No. Chaos Marines do not fit in valkyries.
However, Black Legion associated traitor guard... sure! It'd be pretty weird if it was just chaos marines plus a valkyrie though. I know how you feel though, it is a cool kit and all.

Grey Knights can fit, why cant CSM's?

GK can fit fluffwise only in the same way that terminators could physically occupy the space. They don't use them. They are not designed for power armor of any type. The closest to a space marine that will occupy a Valk is a buff inquisitor in power armor.

Really? Then maybe with that sort of infinite wisdom, you can explain to me why a Valkyries transport bay is bigger than a Rhinos is? It might even be a tad bigger than a Land Raiders, but Id want to break out the calipers and check on that one.

Fluffwise:

Inquisitor:You, Grey Knight guys, we're gonna go kill deamon scum with these guardsmen. They have a Valkyrie assault carrier over there and could land you right at the heart of the chaos line. But theres some stupid belief you're not allowed to use them. So you have to run across the battlefield and get shot to pieces instead, and we'll stick some T3 5+ save guardsmen in that Valkyrie.

Grey Knights: We're too sexy for your Valkyrie....


I never get why some people adhere to the fluff like its some religious doctrine, its like some nurglings would suddenly appear and bugger them if they diverge from the Holy fluff. Its ok to believe in 40k stuff, but it HAS to be within the fluff!

Im sooo tempted to do a chaos Valkyrie and post battle reports using it just to watch the spazzfest


Armies throughout history have used commandeered equipment of thier opponents

Mistress of minis wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Mistress of minis wrote:

ph34r wrote:Black Legion CSM? No. Chaos Marines do not fit in valkyries.
However, Black Legion associated traitor guard... sure! It'd be pretty weird if it was just chaos marines plus a valkyrie though. I know how you feel though, it is a cool kit and all.

Grey Knights can fit, why cant CSM's?

GK can fit fluffwise only in the same way that terminators could physically occupy the space. They don't use them. They are not designed for power armor of any type. The closest to a space marine that will occupy a Valk is a buff inquisitor in power armor.

Really? Then maybe with that sort of infinite wisdom, you can explain to me why a Valkyries transport bay is bigger than a Rhinos is? It might even be a tad bigger than a Land Raiders, but Id want to break out the calipers and check on that one.

Fluffwise:

Inquisitor:You, Grey Knight guys, we're gonna go kill deamon scum with these guardsmen. They have a Valkyrie assault carrier over there and could land you right at the heart of the chaos line. But theres some stupid belief you're not allowed to use them. So you have to run across the battlefield and get shot to pieces instead, and we'll stick some T3 5+ save guardsmen in that Valkyrie.

Grey Knights: We're too sexy for your Valkyrie....


I never get why some people adhere to the fluff like its some religious doctrine, its like some nurglings would suddenly appear and bugger them if they diverge from the Holy fluff. Its ok to believe in 40k stuff, but it HAS to be within the fluff!

Im sooo tempted to do a chaos Valkyrie and post battle reports using it just to watch the spazzfest


Armies throughout history have used commandeered equipment of thier opponents

I wouldn't say that I am infinitely wise, apparently I am not wise enough to understand why you are raging at the concept of Valkyries not bending to your fluff wishes.
40k vehicles are notoriously not in scale. A valkyrie's cargo bay would be designed to fit 10 guardsmen efficiently. In fluff scale, this means that marines would be super cramped in a Valkyrie, taking up twice the space on the x and y axes. Valkyries are designed for average humans to use.
Grey Knights bring thunderhawks with them. If they need air transport they call for them. If they want a smaller air transport they use their Stormbirds. If they need to get into the fray they teleport. If they can drive there they take rhinos. They are the best equipped marine chapter, they do not need to resort to borrowing. In times of super desperation I'm sure the grey knights could pile into a valk, but there is no reason for them to use one as a practical transport.
When you design a vehicle, you design it with space and stress in mind. When you suddenly multiply the weight of the individuals that you are carrying by 10 and the size by 4, you run into practical problems.

Chaos marines would probably get their spikes stuck inside that cramped space anyway, and there's no way their black legion topknots would fit

So stop getting so bent out of shape. I don't care if you make a million pink fuzzy chaos valkyries, it won't make the fluff say what you want it to.
Lucky, GW is perfectly willing to cash in on "OMG MY MAREENS NEEDS A VALKYRIE" people like you, which is why they invented the Stormbird.

Mistress of minis wrote:

Really? Then maybe with that sort of infinite wisdom, you can explain to me why a Valkyries transport bay is bigger than a Rhinos is? It might even be a tad bigger than a Land Raiders, but Id want to break out the calipers and check on that one.


Armies throughout history have used commandeered equipment of thier opponents

A couple of things:

1. 40K models are not even in scale with each other. Models do not represent a 1:1 scale with each other. Hence people being obsessed with true scale marines and so forth, etc.

2. History, real world logic, etc. have no relevance to 40K.

ph34r wrote:
So stop getting so bent out of shape. I don't care if you make a million pink fuzzy chaos valkyries, it won't make the fluff say what you want it to.
Lucky, GW is perfectly willing to cash in on "OMG MY MAREENS NEEDS A VALKYRIE" people like you, which is why they invented the Stormbird.

Umm, your logic has several flaws, but they dont seem to be worth debating- as ALL of this is based on imaginary cultures and war machines. And assuming Im getting bent out of shape because I disagree with you is a weak argument at best :p

And- another assumption of

ph34r wrote:"OMG MY MAREENS NEEDS A VALKYRIE" people like you,

Is ridiculous, I havent bought any new 40K stuff in at least 5 years. Just because I think elite units would use the best gear available to them at any given time, you make rather random suppositions.

Saying the various vehicles arent to scale- then talking about the space for troops inside them even invalidates your own argument. Fluff, is just a storyline, its not a law or requirement to enjoy the modeling aspect of the game. If you refuse to exercise your own imagination and enjoy concepts that arent within the fluff, thats your hindrance, others will enjoy this imaginary lil game with our pretty little toys.

Elite units would use the best gear available to them at any given time, you're right about that bit.

It's why Grey Knights have Strike Cruisers with the most sophisticated teleport arrays in the Imperium, the last of the Stormbird dropship/gunships that survived the Horus Heresy, and it's also why they have a large proportion of Thunderhawk gunships compared to the normal Astartes Chapters.

The only thing they seem *not* to have are Drop Pods, which makes sense since Grey Knights have that amazing set of teleport arrays to compensate. Plus Drop Pods can be shot down fairly easily, so they've got the Stormbirds/Thunderhawks as back-up.

Compared to any of those, a Valkyrie is...well, it's like going into combat in a paper bag.

Dude, seriously? O-o; If she wants to stuff Chaos Marines into a Valkyrie, so be it. Get over yourself. Not everyone you meet is going to worship the fluff like it's the written rules for the game. Obviously you two have different opinions of this, and aren't going to agree, so why don't you just agree to disagree and be done with it?

Wow,seriously? My entire thread turned into a debate about this?sigh,it only takes one person....

Anyway,how do you guys feel about my battlecannon idea? I need ideas on where to fit it, and I'm open to other ideas.

I dunno about a battle cannon, theres not alot of surface area that faces forward.

You might be able to mount it in the fuselage, under the cockpit A-10 style. If the wings didnt have that weird swoop, you could mount it in the side doors, like an AC-130. Only other option I can think of, is a large missle pod. Not like Manticore sized, but a lil bigger than the Hellstrikes.

Mistress of minis wrote:And assuming Im getting bent out of shape because I disagree with you is a weak argument at best :p

Your posting tone replying to my stating fluff facts was quite hostile and argumentative. That is why I assumed that you were getting bent out of shape: your posts imply as much.

Saying the various vehicles arent to scale- then talking about the space for troops inside them even invalidates your own argument. Fluff, is just a storyline, its not a law or requirement to enjoy the modeling aspect of the game. If you refuse to exercise your own imagination and enjoy concepts that arent within the fluff, thats your hindrance, others will enjoy this imaginary lil game with our pretty little toys.

The elite units WOULD use the best gear available to them: the stormraven. If some series of crazy and extraordinary circumstances somehow robbed the GK of their stormravens and thunderhawks and teleporters and rhinos and landraiders, then they might attempt to cram themselves into a valkyrie.
Sorry, but my argument was perfectly sound.
40k plastic models are not in scale.
40k fluffwise vehicles are designed to appropriate scales.
See how the argument does not invalidate itself?

Fluffwise GK or any SM using a valkyrie is just as likely as using a chimera. Have you ever seen fluff where marines ride chimeras?

Basically, fluff goes like this. Is there fluff precedence for it? If so your fluff is perfectly valid. If not, does the fluff seem reasonable/likely in 40k? If so, you're still fine. Is it both nonsensical and unprecedented? If so, your fluff is chaos necrons.


If you want to make a chaos valkyrie just to have something cool, do whatever you want. Fluffwise, if it is a chaos Imperial Guard/Navy vehicle, it will only be crewable by traitor guardsmen, not space marines. As for a battlecannon, weird things happen in 40k, but remember how huge a battlecannon is. It would be strange to have one mounted on a flying hover vehicle.

@ OP : use the following mentality and whatever you do will be cool...

http://img.moronail.net/img/6/6/2366.jpg

@ no one in particular: As for trynig to force someone to play their imaginary game of man dollies only your way ... In a game that has Spase magic and walking talking warlike fungus, S&M elves, shiney vampire spase doods, waggly tail doggy spase doods, etc. ... why get hung up on a small thing like realism? Let him play it his way while you play it your way and instantly win one internet. Congrats.