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I read this here article: about shoplifting policies across the US. It basically states that most stores won't prosecute shoplifters because it's not profitable to do so, and so instead, they just boost prices to account for these losses.

I know that most of the GW stores near me have had shoplifting incidents. Sometimes, the parents of the kid caught red-handed will even threaten to sue the GW employees for defaming their precious snowflake's reputation. Sometimes the employees laugh it off (like the idiots who ran in and snatched a couple of cans of matte varnish, thinking they could go tagging), but I'm sure that the bottom-line effect is that it comes out of the pockets of the honest consumers.


Mikhaila, if you see this, what's your take on shoplifting in your store(s)? How much do you have to factor in for losses (if you're comfortable sharing that info)?

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't most retail stored in general have insurance against shoplifting? If not, I assume that the company absorbs the cost as part of their bottom line.

Redbeard wrote:I read this here article: about shoplifting policies across the US. It basically states that most stores won't prosecute shoplifters because it's not profitable to do so, and so instead, they just boost prices to account for these losses.

Shoplifting, for many stores, is a cost of doing business.

As one who works in law enforcement, sadly this seems to be the case.

Long gone are the days of actually prosecuting someone, unless it's a felony. Misdemeanor shoplifting goes something to the effect of:

"Hey, put that back and don't come into this store again."


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But i don't think anyone is going into GW Headquarters and lifting anything, so to the OP - No it's not a legitimate reason for GW to raise prices. Their own stores - meh.

B&M Stores maybe.

I heard walmart changed their policy a while back so that they don't even prosecute you for shoplifting anything under $50.

Which means as long as you make multiple trips you can drop your cost of groceries and other such things to nothing.

idk To me it seems hard to shop lift anything out of a gaming store as it is usually in boxes that are just too big. Though one time my friend did walk out with a PH 4.0 thinking our other friend had left his behind as he was walking out the door. and the store owners came to me later and said hey your buddy took one of our PH's and we just returned it because it was an accident no big deal. But as far as I know real shoplifting isn't a problem here.

Blisters(which are being removed as far as I know) would be easy to walk out with, as would spraycans.

I don't think it's the reason for price raising. I won't go out and say all wargamers are upstanding citizens who will never steal a thing, but for the most part we don't see the need to steal toys.

Shoplifting affects a store's overhead, since it's a loss. When overhead goes up, they have to raise prices. Yes, most treat it as a 'cost of doing business'. A lot of FLGS have some form of security, mostly the scanners at doors, as a result. There was a case here in Central Ohio where a gamer allegedly stole a bunch of GW product from a FLGS to cover trades on BT, etc.

http://www.40korigins.com/40KOrigins/post/2009/12/21/The-Guilty-Shall-Be-Punished.aspx

filbert wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but don't most retail stored in general have insurance against shoplifting? If not, I assume that the company absorbs the cost as part of their bottom line.

Yeah your wrong, you may be able to insure against bulk theft situations such as ram raiding but in general no. Well no store I have ever worked in anyway, I imagine if you could find a company willing to insure against stock theft then the excess would be massive.

And yeah the police don't give a gak about it, in the uk the CPS make it bloody hard to prosecute for shop lifting even when caught red handed its hard to get a charge to stick so you can't blame the police for not wasting their time.

And yeah the cost does get passed on to the consumer but I personal don't think thats to blame for GW prices.

Most companies already figure, "Shrinkage" in with their overhead. Unless they're losing more than they've budgeted for, there's no reason to raise prices because of that single factor.

If you catch someone stealing from the FLGS you get $25 in store credit, and that person is banned. If you catch them stealing from another customer you get $50 in store credit and the person is banned. I've heard of no problem with GW or other miniature gaming stuff getting stolen, but I'm told they have a real issue with kids swiping boosters packs of Magic and YuGiOh.

Our local owner redesigned his store so they Magic/YGO stuff was all behind the counter. He still found a box of opened Magic in the trash . . .

Really? Magic cards?

He installed camera's. Pretty sad as we've had a really good run with minor issues.

Conversely, you have to wonder if the rising cost of the models has motivated more shoplifting

Mistress of minis wrote:Conversely, you have to wonder if the rising cost of the models has motivated more shoplifting

if that were the case it would make the lifters more douchey in my eyes. Stealing for profit is much more understandable than stealing just to lay your hands on that much needed box set.

Not that its right anyway.

Yeah, stores usually don't prosecute for shoplifting but somehow justify price hikes as a result...So shoplifters are a good thing?

The only time I had seen a store come close to prosecuting a shoplifter, was when I stopped him. I worked as an assistant manager for a gag store in the mall and witnessed the kid pocket the item and attempt to leave the store. I approached him outside of the store and asked him to come back because I knew what he did. I explained that we could talk about it when we got in side and towards the back of the store. He barely got in to the store before he decided to turn around and punch me. Mind you this whole time I had remained hands off of him and followed behind him just as the company had stated in their rules...but the moment he punched me, I grabbed him and put him in a head lock.

Well mall security gets there, as well as the cops, and I release him to the authorities. The cops talked to the kid and we find out he is 16...this posed a problem because if he was 16, according to company policies, I should not have laid a hand on him no matter what. The company feared being counter sued from such cases and felt this could one of those situations. They dropped the case against him as a shoplifter and fired me. I pursued the kid for assault without seek monetary value (16yrs old, doubt he could pay my year of lost wages) but I just wanted to teach him a lesson.

The point of my story...Most companies want you to enforce loss prevention but won't back you up when you do so by their rules. So why bother? They will raise the prices with or without stuff being stolen, they will find a reason.

Yup, it's a vicious cycle.

The thing to understand about shoplifting and pressing charges, is that it's the owner's responsibility, not the Police. All the Police do is collect the info and make a report. That's passed on to the courts and the owner ultimately has to follow through on the charges. I can appreciate why a FLGS owner would not follow up on charges.

Time/ effort not worth it.
Alienate the customer base.

i used to work at a store that had one of the highest shrink rates in our chain at the time.

nothing changed in our chain because of it it was just a cost of doing business.

and i know that a known shoplifter at another store was just followed around and they wrote down everything they stole as a destroyed item to keep shrink down. since destroyed items were a tax deduction, and a shrink item was not.

lixulana wrote:i used to work at a store that had one of the highest shrink rates in our chain at the time.

nothing changed in our chain because of it it was just a cost of doing business.

and i know that a known shoplifter at another store was just followed around and they wrote down everything they stole as a destroyed item to keep shrink down. since destroyed items were a tax deduction, and a shrink item was not.

LOL, that was actually a good idea of them.

Gamble wrote:
Alienate the customer base.

If they're stealing from you, they're not exactly customers, now are they.

ProtoClone wrote:

and i know that a known shoplifter at another store was just followed around and they wrote down everything they stole as a destroyed item to keep shrink down. since destroyed items were a tax deduction, and a shrink item was not.

LOL, that was actually a good idea of them.

If you like paying higher taxes to support the shoplifters, sure. Two wrongs do not make a right. It is no more legal or ethical for a store to incorrectly report their losses, and steal from the taxpayers than it is for a shoplifter to steal from the store.

If you can't enforce the law, then it may as well be that the law doesn't exist.

filbert wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but don't most retail stored in general have insurance against shoplifting? If not, I assume that the company absorbs the cost as part of their bottom line.

Yes, you're wrong.)

There is no insurance on losses due to shoplifting. You can get insurance against armed robbery though.

For my shops, shoplifting is just a cost of business. It cuts into your soul more than your wallet. Half the people I catch are friends and long term customers, ripping me off because they want toy soldiers and don't want to pay for them. I can't raise my prices because I get shoplifted. I know it happens, all you can do is set up the shop and be as vigilant as you can, and hope it's minimized. Good customers are your best defense. I have my GW on the wall behind 4 gaming tables, and near the register. Someone stealing has to do so in my view, and near people who will help catch them.

I estimate that 10% of my yearly profits (paycheck) walk out of the store from shoplifting. I have caught many dozens of people shoplifting over the years. I always turn them over to the police. I have never had anyone convicted, because the courts always cut a deal for community service. I am not consulted in any way, or told the outcome. If stuff is taken as evidence, I usually don't get it back either.


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Mistress of minis wrote:Conversely, you have to wonder if the rising cost of the models has motivated more shoplifting

Yes, because it's always good to justify why stealing is ok.

The person that will compromise his morals for 100.00 will do it for 10.00.

And it's ok because the FLGS is obviously a filthy rich megacorp that deserves to lose some money.

But I'm never bitter about it.

One of the biggest problems about shoplifting has been the historical idiocy shown by the courts, here in the States, anyway. I mean, when you swipe something, and a store employee chases after you, and you run into the street and get hit by a car, and it's somehow THE STORE'S FAULT, that just causes no end of problems for shops.

Anything that cuts into your bottom line is going to eventually translate into higher prices and/or lower quality for paying customers.

Redbeard wrote:

Gamble wrote:
Alienate the customer base.

If they're stealing from you, they're not exactly customers, now are they.

ProtoClone wrote:

and i know that a known shoplifter at another store was just followed around and they wrote down everything they stole as a destroyed item to keep shrink down. since destroyed items were a tax deduction, and a shrink item was not.

LOL, that was actually a good idea of them.

If you like paying higher taxes to support the shoplifters, sure. Two wrongs do not make a right. It is no more legal or ethical for a store to incorrectly report their losses, and steal from the taxpayers than it is for a shoplifter to steal from the store.

But why should I lose my job by not going after a shoplifter because in then end they only get a slap on the wrist and come back to do it again the next month? The company doesn't care enough, why should I? But come time for inventory and all of the sudden the store cares and they blame us for not enforcing what they don't enforce.

Even if the stores, specifically large companies, had no theft as a result of shoplifters they would still find a way to raise prices.

I am not saying go out and shoplift because it doesn't matter...I am just pointing out it is messed up, the politics surrounding it.

mikhaila wrote:

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Mistress of minis wrote:Conversely, you have to wonder if the rising cost of the models has motivated more shoplifting

Yes, because it's always good to justify why stealing is ok.

The person that will compromise his morals for 100.00 will do it for 10.00.

And it's ok because the FLGS is obviously a filthy rich megacorp that deserves to lose some money.

But I'm never bitter about it.

Im not justifying it, but to some 14 year old kid that wants the cool toys his freinds can afford and he cant- 35$ or more for a box or 15$ for a blister is pretty steep. Greed sadly outweighs morals more often than we'd like.

Law enforcement and security have been my career and trade for the last 14 years, and having the support of your customers looking out for your store is the best way to go, along with a good set up for the register and product in relation to the flow of customers. For the stores I did Loss prevention evaluations for, the biggest problem was usually small packaged product next to gaming tables- since they blisters would get dropped into bags or army boxes. And sadly- as you noted its often the regulars, since they know the routine and patterns for when they can grab something without being seen. At one store, a couple kids would essentailly tag-team, 2 kids would have the owner/employee dig through a cabinet for some game card or Clix fig, while the other ones would slip a few items into their back packs- stuff as large as a Hammerhead O.o It was another customer that caught them- but they by that time they already had lifted around 600$.

But, shoplifting might be a cause for higher prices at a retail level(but if a retailer raised prices- they'll lose out in sales), but at a wholesale level like GW, its not a factor for thier price structure.

Most employees aren't paid enough to warrant the risks involved in physically tackle shop lifters or chase them down the street. Shoplifting is to an extent 'tolerated' because the loss costs less than the wages for actual store security.

ProtoClone wrote:But why should I lose my job by not going after a shoplifter because in then end they only get a slap on the wrist and come back to do it again the next month? The company doesn't care enough, why should I? But come time for inventory and all of the sudden the store cares and they blame us for not enforcing what they don't enforce.

I suspect you'll find it's not so much that the company doesn't care as that there's realistically only so much they can do.

Getting staff to keep an eye on customers and catch shoplifters when they can does reduce shoplifting. You'll never stop them all, but knowing that staff are paying attention is a huge deterrent for many would-be shoplifters.

Once they're caught, though... it becomes more problematic to actually do anything about it. I used to work for a large department store chain here in Oz. In order to avoid problems with false accusations, we were only allowed to actually approach a shoplifter if we had actually seen them conceal something, and had not let them out of our sight for as much as a second afterwards... and of course, you have to let them actually leave the store before approaching them. And then, if you want a successful prosecution, you have to be able to prove that they deliberately stole whatever it was they took (as opposed to, you know, absent-mindedly putting it in their pocket and forgetting about it...)

For smaller ticket items, it's just not worth the hassle. So, vigilant staff to attempt to reduce the number of people trying it... but no actual consequence for those you catch... not because the company doesn't care, but because they realise that it's simply not worth trying to pursue it.

Stopping shoplifters boils down to also being unable to confront them physically.

It's hard to care about shoplifters when you, as an employee cannot do anything about it once they get outside. You call the cops but unless you get a description of them plus vehicle (if they flee in a vehicle) you can't do anything other than watch them drive off and hope the cops do their job (which most time they won't be bothered).

It wasn't always this way. 15 years ago I worked retail and we were allowed to arm tackle, shoe string tackle and do anything else that would prevent that person from getting off property (although obviously shooting them wasn't allowed). Now because of the "sue crazy" society we live in most stores have zero tolerance for that due to being held liable if any harm comes to the shoplifter. IMO you stopped having rights the minute you broke the law.

I don't think GW would tout shoplifting as a source for a price increase but I do know that shoplifting in general DOES affect prices on goods. Walmart might be able to afford to lose a cd or two but when millions get stolen every year it does affect their bottom line.

insaniak wrote:

ProtoClone wrote:But why should I lose my job by not going after a shoplifter because in then end they only get a slap on the wrist and come back to do it again the next month? The company doesn't care enough, why should I? But come time for inventory and all of the sudden the store cares and they blame us for not enforcing what they don't enforce.

I suspect you'll find it's not so much that the company doesn't care as that there's realistically only so much they can do.

Getting staff to keep an eye on customers and catch shoplifters when they can does reduce shoplifting. You'll never stop them all, but knowing that staff are paying attention is a huge deterrent for many would-be shoplifters.

Once they're caught, though... it becomes more problematic to actually do anything about it. I used to work for a large department store chain here in Oz. In order to avoid problems with false accusations, we were only allowed to actually approach a shoplifter if we had actually seen them conceal something, and had not let them out of our sight for as much as a second afterwards... and of course, you have to let them actually leave the store before approaching them. And then, if you want a successful prosecution, you have to be able to prove that they deliberately stole whatever it was they took (as opposed to, you know, absent-mindedly putting it in their pocket and forgetting about it...)

For smaller ticket items, it's just not worth the hassle. So, vigilant staff to attempt to reduce the number of people trying it... but no actual consequence for those you catch... not because the company doesn't care, but because they realise that it's simply not worth trying to pursue it.

Good point and I already kind of understood this but it is a good point for everyone else. For the larger stores, or referred to as anchor stores in the mall, there is the luxury of things like in store security. But for those of us who were in the small stores it was up to us and the swift response of mall cops...and as someone said, they didn't pay enough for us to try and stop a shoplifter. Well, I realize that little tidbit of wisdom till after my incident. I have had several jobs where it came down to me chasing people who are unwilling to pay for product/services rendered or throwing up my arms and walking away. In the end, it is never worth it.

Now I work for a library. Has all the things about retail I didn't mind and without the indentured servant treatment I would get from customers.

Redbeard wrote:If they're stealing from you, they're not exactly customers, now are they.

You misunderstood. Customer X gets caught stealing and is banned from the store. Not many people, his best friends included, would disagree. If OTOH the owner were to follow through and press charges, he risks alienating those people who, and they do exist, would say charges were too much. Shoplifter's been dealt with, but now he might lose additional sales because his buddies are going elsewhere to play/ shop. I'm not saying this is what happens, but a possibility of what could happen.