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Hello Everyone, I am a purveyor of many fine hobbies. 40K, collectible Firearms, and lots of swag from WWII. Although, most of what I collect is NSDAP items, I do own many British, American, Italian, Japanese, French and Soviet items as well.

Overall, I think I have about 80 German Decorations, along with three hats, several armbands, some fieldgear, a helmet and lots of other "stuff"

What do you all think?

I, in no way endorse the ideology of the NSDAP or any other NS asscoiation. Their ideology is utterly abhorrent.

Collection for the sake of the value the item has to you is fine so long as you are detached from what the item represents and it does not horribly offend the rest of humanity.

For instance, the decorations and gear of Nazis is probably not that offensive to begin with so long as you are not parading around with them and expounding the virtues of German living space, eugenics, and the evils of Communism and Capitalism.

On another note is the macabre that is associated with some collectors items. I would have more of a problem if you started collecting things made from actual human remains. I could use a really grisly example, but I leave it to your imagination what you think I meant.

Evil no. Though it does seem rather strange, and it would certainly be very off-putting and more than a little bit frightening if I ever walked into someones house and saw stuff like that on in display. Some part of me feels inclined to ask "Why?" but I'm fairly sure I wouldn't get it no matter how much explained. So yeah, not evil but creepy in the extreme.

WarOne wrote:Collection for the sake of the value the item has to you is fine so long as you are detached from what the item represents and it does not horribly offend the rest of humanity.

For instance, the decorations and gear of Nazis is probably not that offensive to begin with so long as you are not parading around with them and expounding the virtues of German living space, eugenics, and the evils of Communism and Capitalism.

On another note is the macabre that is associated with some collectors items. I would have more of a problem if you started collecting things made from actual human remains. I could use a really grisly example, but I leave it to your imagination what you think I meant.

I totally understand, I can't bring myself to collect Concetration Camp paraphernailia. At all. Too damn saddening.

What's a sad hypocrisy in this is that I saw someone dressed in a Che Geuvara shirt and he was lauded for being "expressive" and so "creative". The kids in the bay Area that wore American Flag T-shirts=Racist somehow. I don't get it.


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Chongara wrote:Evil no. Though it does seem rather strange, and it would certainly be very off-putting and more than a little bit frightening if I ever walked into someones house and saw stuff like that on in display. Some part of me feels inclined to ask "Why?" but I'm fairly sure I wouldn't get it no matter how much explained. So yeah, not evil but creepy in the extreme.

It's obscenely valuable, the demand for original German and American stuff is outrageous. It's not like I parade around in it. It sits in is a case and does nothing except appreciate.

I think you're unfamiliar with American political slang. When liberals don't like something they call it racist, regardless of whether or not it actually is. Just like how conservatives use the term socialist as a catch all for anything they don't like.

So when people say an American flag t-shirt is "racist" they're merely expressing their dislike of the tackiness of the shirt, the shirt's not actually racist. It's the same when people call Che a communist.

Race card gets used too much.

The negative to being a whitey. I don't get a race card. :(

Fateweaver wrote:Race card gets used too much.

The negative to being a whitey. I don't get a race card. :(

Nope, no race card being played here... Poor ol'whitey.

avantgarde wrote:I think you're unfamiliar with American political slang. When liberals don't like something they call it racist, regardless of whether or not it actually is. Just like how conservatives use the term socialist as a catch all for anything they don't like.

So when people say an American flag t-shirt is "racist" they're merely expressing their dislike of the tackiness of the shirt, the shirt's not actually racist. It's the same when people call Che a communist.

I am aware of the slang tactics used by both sides, I just wanted to keep a flame war from exploding.

Keep on collecting these pieces of history! Anyone who claims that merely owning an object makes you racist, fascist, bitter etc., is a fool. I myself acquired a piece of Ft. Sumter this weekend while I was visiting South Carolina. It thrills me to know that I have a small piece of our national history.

It's obscenely valuable, the demand for original German and American stuff is outrageous. It's not like I parade around in it. It sits in is a case and does nothing except appreciate.

I'm sure it's they're valuable quite and have historical significance. Doesn't make it any less creepy or scary. It's just plain unpleasant, like a bad smell.

Heck, I'm sure if something like "Dahmer Barrels" were owned privately they could be an important/valuable part of a criminal/law enforcement collection. Wouldn't make them any less cringe worthy.

Why do you ask?
Is someone offended by your collection?

It would only be evil if you worshipped it every night before bed or something like that.

I find the SS uniforms to be very swanky and nice looking.

Guess that makes me a Nazi.

It doesn’t make you evil. Someone can love history without endorsing those involved. A lot of people recognise the German uniforms looked very cool, albeit a lot less practical than the allied gear, particularly the US uniform. Their iconography is certainly distinctive.

However, collecting it does put you in with a certain crowd. While I have known only a few collectors of WWII memorabilia, I’ve noticed the ones focussing on German gear have tended towards a certain type. They might spend a lot of time talking about how the Germans might have won, if only they’d done this or that. I never observed any racism, but I certainly saw a lot of admiration for the triumph of the will rhetoric of the nazis.

Collecting won’t make you one of them, but if you become a serious collector you’ll get to know a lot of these people, and some of them will be fairly odious.

You know who else liked Nazi uniforms?

Just kidding. Seriously, you're in a hobby about genetically superior heroic Space Nazis saving mankind from the genetically and religiously impure, as well as from fearsome xenos. At least Nazi memorabilia has some historical value.

The fact that you worry about it making you evil means you're not.

sebster wrote:It doesn’t make you evil. Someone can love history without endorsing those involved. A lot of people recognise the German uniforms looked very cool, albeit a lot less practical than the allied gear, particularly the US uniform. Their iconography is certainly distinctive.

However, collecting it does put you in with a certain crowd. While I have known only a few collectors of WWII memorabilia, I’ve noticed the ones focussing on German gear have tended towards a certain type. They might spend a lot of time talking about how the Germans might have won, if only they’d done this or that. I never observed any racism, but I certainly saw a lot of admiration for the triumph of the will rhetoric of the nazis.

Collecting won’t make you one of them, but if you become a serious collector you’ll get to know a lot of these people, and some of them will be fairly odious.

You have to admire MOST of the tactics used by Hitler though. A great general will respect the tactics of another general. He made some critical errors, errors that we should be thankful for. Admiring his tactical insight is not tantamount to admiring his ideals.

I know that's not what you mean but you are kind of implying that admiration for what Hitler did right or wrong is admiration for Hitler. Err, I think that's what you imply.

I admire some of what he did tactically but I most definitely think he was a monster.

Fateweaver wrote:I find the SS uniforms to be very swanky and nice looking.

Guess that makes me a Nazi.

No, that makes you a fashion-nazi

Well, minus the big red band on the left arm with the swastika the black uniform of the SS was quite.....attractive. Not to mention the silver double "S" on the lapel.

Egor, your avatar freaks me out.

I'd say you'd only have to start worrying if you dress up in full uniform and scream "Heil Hitler" in front of a mirror more than twice a week.

Nurglitch wrote:You know who else liked Nazi uniforms?

Glen Beck ? Oh, sorry, wrong thread.

Purely having a collection af some Nazi gear doesn't make you evil, although that would explain a lot about the atmosphere in some museums... hmm...

But, as Mr. Sebster said, you might well wind up rubbing shoulders with some ...... odd.... folks. If a conversation about skull sizes starts up GTFO of there ASAP.

.... You don't work for JJB FInance do you by any chance... nah, course not, never mind [/PeepShow]

Not evil - unless you are like the neo-Nazi chap that Michael Douglas bumps into in Falling Down.

filbert wrote:Not evil - unless you are like the neo-Nazi chap that Michael Douglas bumps into in Falling Down.

Or the neighbour in American Beauty...

Or these guys!

Fateweaver wrote:You have to admire MOST of the tactics used by Hitler though. A great general will respect the tactics of another general. He made some critical errors, errors that we should be thankful for. Admiring his tactical insight is not tantamount to admiring his ideals.

He had some excellent generals, and the tactical abilities of the officers across the board was very high. But Hitler himself was a complete numpty, in my opinion.

I know that's not what you mean but you are kind of implying that admiration for what Hitler did right or wrong is admiration for Hitler. Err, I think that's what you imply.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with thinking the Tiger was a great tank, or that Rommel's counter at Kasserine Pass was masterful. Nor is there anything wrong with collecting Nazi war gear. Or with believing in the will to succeed as the absolute virtue, on a personal and national level.

But once someone starts doing all of them, and talking about them all the time, well then things are getting a bit weird.

sebster wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:You have to admire MOST of the tactics used by Hitler though. A great general will respect the tactics of another general. He made some critical errors, errors that we should be thankful for. Admiring his tactical insight is not tantamount to admiring his ideals.

He had some excellent generals, and the tactical abilities of the officers across the board was very high. But Hitler himself was a complete numpty, in my opinion.

I know that's not what you mean but you are kind of implying that admiration for what Hitler did right or wrong is admiration for Hitler. Err, I think that's what you imply.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with thinking the Tiger was a great tank, or that Rommel's counter at Kasserine Pass was masterful. Nor is there anything wrong with collecting Nazi war gear. Or with believing in the will to succeed as the absolute virtue, on a personal and national level.

But once someone starts doing all of them, and talking about them all the time, well then things are getting a bit weird.

Agreed, the German military was impressive in it's capability and many shrewd generals and admirals in the forces.

But OP, you collect Nazi symbolism? Does it take pride of place in your home or do you have it secreted away? If it's got pride of place, how would you feel if a Jewish or Black friend of yours came to your home, how do you think it would make them feel or view you?
If it is secreted away, consider why you've done that, to conceal it.

I wonder why you've chosen to ask the question here, if you're seeking vindication? I can't see anything wrong with collecting WW2 militaria, it was the single most significant event in recent history. I can't see any problem with collecting militaria specific to the German army, or Rommel or The Bismarck, but Nazi items, specifically... Well that represents having an interest in an utterly revolting ideology and one of the greatest crimes against humanity ever conceived and I'd certainly not want to associate with you for collecting it.

Because I would question your interest in it, your fascination to the point of collection. I would not be comfortable with it. I would not wish to be around someone like that.

The kind of people who politely conceal their admiration for Hitler and the evil he committed with smokescreen comments like 'You have to admire MOST of the tactics used by Hitler' for example, when what they mean is 'I like what that guy did, he made the trains run on time!!'.

Those sorts of people are to be reviled.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:...when what they mean is 'I like what that guy did, he made the trains run on time!!'.

That was Mussolini, no?


Just kidding...

sebster wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:You have to admire MOST of the tactics used by Hitler though. A great general will respect the tactics of another general. He made some critical errors, errors that we should be thankful for. Admiring his tactical insight is not tantamount to admiring his ideals.

He had some excellent generals, and the tactical abilities of the officers across the board was very high. But Hitler himself was a complete numpty, in my opinion.

He also had a prodigious memory that he used to hound his generals "That´s not what you said in the meeting three months ago (and then recall the exact words)" and a great imagination for fancy gizmos and tactics that made him push some really cutting edge stuff over the objections of his conservative generals. Blitz tactics and the 88 dual cannon or really ridiculous ideas, like requesting a ME 262 Dive Bomber or the giant tanks.

M.

No one in particular has been offended, just something that has a certain stigma.

My decorations and cloth stuff is squirelled away in a gun safe to prevent theft. I check on it once and a while to make sure that there's no issues with mold, zincpest or rust.

If I had any sympathies at all, it would be to the decent men in Germany who got sucked up into the war. Most of Hitler's high command was comprised of career officers who didn't buy into his crap. The average member of the Wehrmacht, conscripted into service. Doing their best not to die and just to go home.


But that's the plight of every soldier. I really felt bad for the Japanese infantry during the war, abused by their officers and expected to fight to the death. Same for the Russian conscript, thrown at battle hardened Germans hoping to do anything to them.


I am curious why people have voted yes, I would be interested in their reasoning.

Miguelsan wrote:

sebster wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:You have to admire MOST of the tactics used by Hitler though. A great general will respect the tactics of another general. He made some critical errors, errors that we should be thankful for. Admiring his tactical insight is not tantamount to admiring his ideals.

He had some excellent generals, and the tactical abilities of the officers across the board was very high. But Hitler himself was a complete numpty, in my opinion.

He also had a prodigious memory that he used to hound his generals "That´s not what you said in the meeting three months ago (and then recall the exact words)" and a great imagination for fancy gizmos and tactics that made him push some really cutting edge stuff over the objections of his conservative generals. Blitz tactics and the 88 dual cannon or really ridiculous ideas, like requesting a ME 262 Dive Bomber or the giant tanks.

M.

Well, we can almost excuse him now.................................

Admiration is too strong a word to use in conjunction with a man and regime that was hell bent on genocide and an idealised form of racial purity.

To the OP NSDAP paraphernalia can't be cheap? What are you classing as NSDAP? Party badges, badges of office? insignias and rank of party officials? You list fieldgear, that would suggest a collection of military paraphernalia rather than political?

JEB_Stuart wrote:Keep on collecting these pieces of history! Anyone who claims that merely owning an object makes you racist, fascist, bitter etc., is a fool. I myself acquired a piece of Ft. Sumter this weekend while I was visiting South Carolina. It thrills me to know that I have a small piece of our national history.

That's pretty cool, I've got a piece of the Berlin Wall.

Stormrider wrote:
If I had any sympathies at all, it would be to the decent men in Germany who got sucked up into the war. Most of Hitler's high command was comprised of career officers who didn't buy into his crap. The average member of the Wehrmacht, conscripted into service. Doing their best not to die and just to go home.

My first sympathies are to the victims of massed human extermination. I have considerably less sympathy for those who took up the swastika and guarded those camps and invaded other nations because 'everyone else was doing it'. Who packed women and children into train wagons like sardines to be killed?

It was an evil regime. You make a decision when you side with someone, you carry consequences when you join the bully in the playground and inflict misery and suffering on others. The 'but we were beguiled by his aura' gak I hear touted by many doesn't wash, he wasn't a god, nor a magician, yet people met out unspeakable cruelty and barbarism on other people because he said 'it's ok to do that'.

So, I have a good deal less sympathy for the prison guards and the invading soldiers and the rapists and murderers.

As to your comments on Japanese soldiers, go tell that story in Nanking. They fell on that city like wolves, they turned it into a rape camp and addicted the population to heroin as they tortured and mutilated and inflicted terror on an industrial scale.

Perhaps you can admire the military insight and savvy of generals or the endurance and fighting skills of the troops, but there is nothing at all to be admired in the Nazis or Imperial Japanese or any of the Axis aggressions of WW2.

It is that taint that earns my distaste in owning these things because of any ideas of 'military nobility' being totally overshadowed by the lead weight of grief that they carry.