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Played this weekend in a 30 man local tourny, 1850 points. Tourny was well run, everything on time and overall good competition.

My list:

Eldrad
Avatar

6 Fire dragons, exarch, flamer
-Wave serpent, shuriken cannon, stones
8 Scorpions, exarch, fist, stalker
-Wave serpent, bright lance, shuriken cannon, stones

10 Stormies, warlock, destructer, 2 flamers
-Wave serpent, bright lance, shuriken cannon, stones
10 Guardians, warlock, embolden, scatter laser
5 Dire avengers

Falcon, HF, stones, shuriken cannon, scatter laser
Fire prism, HF
Fire prism, HF

List thoughts: well, i dont play at 1850 at my local store, I play at 1500, so this was kind of tacking 350 points onto my 1500 list. The list performed okay, there were some obvious things that didnt work out. Bright lances were an incredible point sink that simply did nothing. I dont think I blew up one tank all day with them. The scropions really are no good in assault against dedicated assault units, and also seemed like a major point sink. Guardians on foot really just are no good in an all tank army lol, I always reserved them for fear of them dying incredibly quickly. But I needed the 3rd troop choice.

Game 1
Game 2
Game 3 & 4

Game 3:
Tyranids

Prime, dual swords
Prime, dual swords

3 HG
3 HG

5 Genestealer squads with broodlords, I believe 8 strong each

3 Trygons, 2 primes.

Mission is sieze ground and we roll all 5 objectives, secondary is most expensive troop, with spearhead deployment.

I won roll off again and decided to go first simply to pick the better side for what I thought would provide much less cover for him walking. He infiltrates all but 1 genestealer squad which outflanks.



Turn 1: Guardians in reserve again. I dont really advance much other than my avatar. Shooting sees 1 genestealer squad killed and a trygon down to 2 wounds.

He wrecks my scorpions ride from hive guard, and gets to assault 2 serpents with genestealers which doesnt amount to much. He does get every single vehicle shaken however, which will really save him next turn as my shooting is basically zero at this point.



Turn 2: I get fire dragons out and flamer and melta some hive guard to not much effect, I think I kill 1 and wound another, I than assault in and actually dont die. My stormies get out (I forgot about secondary here lol, woops) and flamer a stealer squad to death and then assault the remaining broodlord and kill him. Scorpions wiff on terrain even on 3d6 and wont make it into assault. Avatar assaults trygon and wiffs and does a single wound.

His shooting is limited to 1 HG squad now, and I dont think it amounts to anything. The other 2 trygons assault into the avatar. The generstealers risk it and assault my scorpions and but because of no grenades die horribly. His other genestealer squad which was behind the building assault into my stormies and I actually dont die, I think we draw combat.




Turn 3: My guardians prepare to get into the stormies old ride for protection but wont get in this round. Combat sees my avatar kill the wounded trygon but die from the other 2. Combat between stormies and stealers comes down to broodlord vs warlock. His outflanking stealers come in, but out of the picture and near my prism which they wreck.



Turn 4: Were actually running out of time somehow, so this is the last turn. Basically his broodlord kills my warlock, eldrad gets out and kills the broodlord, his stealers cant fleet enough to capture the rightmost objective and Ive secured the back left.

In the end I win primary, he wins secondary. Minor for me.




Game 4: At this point I know im out of the runnings so I dont really care what happens at this point, Im on like table 7 of 15, so midpack.

Orks

Basically a WAAC list:

2 warbosses on bikes
2 dreads
10 nob bikers
10 nob bikers

That was it, 2 massive nob biker squads and 2 dreads.

I knew I couldnt kill 20 nob bikers, so I was mildly pissed at drawing this list at the end of the day. The mission was capture control with the secondary being capture wounded soldiers which can move and be moved with you. I should also note that this nob biker list beat the guard player I played in game 2 in game 1 which was the kill point mission.

Not going to do a full bat rep since I didnt enjoy this game and was actually packing my stuff up as the game was going on. I think bringing lists like this to a friendly fun tourny is just silly. Every person I played that day was great and I had tons of fun, it was definatly a day wrecker. I hope this guy reads this and never brings something like this again because there were several pissed people I overheard during breaks about this list. So dood, if you read this, nobody liked your list and you pissed every oponent off that day.

Anyways, basically this is how it went:

I sit at board edge awaiting the inevitable turn 2 assault. He turbos at me. I unload dragons and kill 2 guys. He kills them in assault. My avatar tarpits one unit for a while and wounds all off them before dying. The other unit roams freely and just wrecks tank after tank. I didnt even bother rolling for a turn 6 and told the guy he could have full points and I left the store knowing I didnt win anything that day and I needed to get home (there were some incredibly painted armies at this event I should mention).

Sucks about that 4th opponent, good to hear he didn't win anything, and that the other three matches were fun.

Thanks for the write ups, they were a great read.

Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy your last game, but if you go to a tournament you have to expect to face a huge range of armies, everyone goes to tournaments for different reasons and you can't begrudge your opponent bringing a more tuned list than yours. If he was a poor sport and was a jerk, then fair enough; but just bringing a more powerful to list to what you perceive as a friendly tournament isn't grounds to be pissed off at him. I'm sure that if you had been playing on table one in the final round against this guy then you would have put up a much stronger fight, attitude counts for alot.

Foldalot wrote:Thanks for the write ups, they were a great read.

Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy your last game, but if you go to a tournament you have to expect to face a huge range of armies, everyone goes to tournaments for different reasons and you can't begrudge your opponent bringing a more tuned list than yours. If he was a poor sport and was a jerk, then fair enough; but just bringing a more powerful to list to what you perceive as a friendly tournament isn't grounds to be pissed off at him. I'm sure that if you had been playing on table one in the final round against this guy then you would have put up a much stronger fight, attitude counts for alot.

Its not so much it was "tuned", its a pure WAAC power gamer list. Bringing things like this to local events just pisses everyone off, not just me, Every oponent before me as well.

And I do believe that is grounds to be pissed actually, If I brought dual seer jetbike council I would have pissed every opponent off just as much as he did. It ruins the game for your opponent and you as well. If your opponent isnt having fun its hard for you to have fun.

He wasnt a poor sport or a jerk, but he was sloppy with rules and incredibly sloppy with marking wounds and who had what and where. I actually think at times he was just removing dice behind some of the models as it didnt even look like wound counters because he would move his unit without taking their wound counters with them, or he would forgot who had the wound on them and just randomly assign it to someone at that point.

I also think because it was the last game and the end of the day it wasnt something I wanted to play, since most of the other armies there were defintly not power gamer lists, nothing was weak, and competition was tough, but I would have rather played any list but this one.

Nothing worse than a sloppy opponent (except for a flat out cheat), it's a very frustrating experience trying to deal with such a player as they often don't mean to be so terribly disorganized or sloppy; im sure that his play style detracted from your game.

I'm getting the idea that you felt you were very disadvantaged in this matchup, which you were, and feeling like the game is over before it has even began is no fun at all, but I would just like to point out that he was with you on the middle tables at the end of day which means that his list wasn't super hot against the other players there. Nob bikers is very much a rock army, it sounds like you had the misfourtune of playing a scissor army in this instance. What I'm getting at is this was a poor matchup for your army and doesn't make Nob bikers a WAAC army. They used to be a WAAC army for a little bit, no doubt, but their star is fading mighty quickly.

Or....maybe you take issue with his percieved WAAC attitude, as demonstrated by him bringing a list that he THINKS is still the sexiness, and I can't argue with you about that as everybody has personal opinions on what attitude people should play the game with. He probably thinks there isn't anything wrong in bringing the hardest list he can to a tournament- there are plenty of people who share this point of view- and the only thing you can do is talk to him about what you want from your games, it's the only way to get people to understand that they may be annoying their opponents with their playstyle. But remember, just as he can't be annoyed at you for bringing a (comparatively) weaker list, at the end of the day it's his army and he can bring anything he likes.

Sad thing is I feel the same way about trying to down a skim-dar list and you do Nob bikers. Not downing you or anything.

As Foldalot mentioned, when you go to a tournament you should expect to face a variety of lists and play styles and be able to deal with them. Sure it was a dangerous list but there are a huge number of builds out there (including Ork lists) which are more powerful. Basically its one dimensional and definitely beatable, the fact that he was in the middle of the pack kinda speaks to that.

I'm surprised you had such a big issue with Nob Bikers in any case. Excluding the perfect counters to them like Psyker Battle Squads or TH/SS Terminators, mobile armies sitting in transports are something they can struggle with. You don't have to kill them all in a single turn even if they are in your face turn 1. Assuming you have second turn (if you have first turn you just get another round of shooting ID templates at him), all your tanks move 12" (and do this every turn) unless you are sure they won't be touched, as they can only hurt you in assault. Use a couple of Serpents, preferably empty, and park one right in front of each of his units (tank shock as well if its actually going to do something). Everything else you back up and spread out as much as possible. They can either charge the tank or move around it, either way you give the rest of your army a turn of breathing space. Just keep running expendable units into his face so he has to go around them or charge them while backing everything else up.

As far as doing damage, you should comfortably be able to cripple a squad of Nobs in a single turn even if they turbo'ed, assuming you have Doom support. Use Serpents to tank shock and bunch them up a bit if you need to and more importantly try and stop the unit you aren't targeting from getting to your disembarked guys (or tie them up with something if you can, Fortuned Avatar into them if you can get there I guess). You have a large number of weapons which can ID his Nobs which you can fire off first and plenty of flamers to ignore his cover saves. The Prisms firing focused shots are your main weapon here. I would consider Guiding one or both of them if you can as well. The more you can bunch them up with tank shocks the better, as even with 3+ cover you should ID a couple (probably 1 wound goes onto the Warboss per shot). If you can tank shock them completely into a ball you could possibly even use a focused linked shot which even the Warboss can't ignore.

The Fire Dragons should then ID 1-2 (probably 1 wound goes onto the Warboss again but he can't keep doing it after this or he dies) and do 3 or so wounds with the Heavy Flamer depending on how bunched up they are (I allowed for 6 hits which seems about right). So thats probably 3 Nobs gone, Warboss wounded and a couple of wounds done on the remaining Nobs. Throwing the Bright Lances and the Avatar at them maybe IDs another Nob (or kills the Warboss, he can't keep taking wounds to the face). Dropping the Flamer Guardians on them does another 8 or so wounds with Doom (3.5 with Destructor, 4.5 with the flamers) leaving 2-3 wounded Nobs and (maybe) a badly wounded Warboss. The Falcon should do another couple of wounds as well (including possible ID wounds from the Pulse Laser) leaving a totally decimated squad which has to pass morale and with everything wounded, would probably struggle to beat your disembarked squads in combat let alone take out a tank (you go first and they are still Doomed so you can actually wound them reliably).

Once you take out one unit it becomes much easier, they can only go after a single target at a time if you are careful and they can't box you in very easily. Just keep dropping ID wounds into the remaining squad until it folds.

Hey Mafty, did you by any chance play a tourney at a place called Heroes World, in Markham I think? I was the guy with the other Eldar army with almost the same composition. Anyway, good reporting. I haven't read battles 2 and 3 because I got excited when I thought I recognized the models.

Keep it up!

powerclaw wrote:Hey Mafty, did you by any chance play a tourney at a place called Heroes World, in Markham I think? I was the guy with the other Eldar army with almost the same composition. Anyway, good reporting. I haven't read battles 2 and 3 because I got excited when I thought I recognized the models.

Keep it up!

hey I did indeed, I had to have my army fully painted for this event so I did some crash course painting over the last week. I was only 50% painted at the other event.

Thanks for recognising them, good memory lol

Thanks for the reports, but you shouldnt have had such a pessimistic attitude about the last match up. Your entire army (not including the avatar) could move 24". You should have been zipping around the board playing hit and run. He only had two units with very little shooting (if any). He counted on being able to catch his opponents and you brought an even faster list. Could have thrown some bait units at him just outside of the 18" range in an attempt to have him forfeit turbo boosting so you could blow him away with your S8+ weapons without cover.


In any case, like others have said, you should have prepared for a list like this when you designed your list. It is expected at these things to meet people like this.

Nob bikers are overrated as hell. I can understand giving up quickly. A friend of mine did it at a recent event, got spanked by leafblower guard round 2 and was tabled by wraithwall eldar round 3 just because he gave up.

Some advice on dealing with the infamous nob bikers.

1-concentrate firepower, dumping 2 S9 prism shots into a squad, then the dragons, and then charging with the avatar should see them off.

2-Poor leadership. If you knock them below fearless level you can likely just tank schock them away.

3-Its only 2 squads. Sure they hit hard, but if you wipe one you should be good, as the other cant do nearly as much damage.

Eldar generally have a hard time with orks, the number of attacks they throw is ridiculous when you are as weak as an elf. None the less some smart play can win games, and nob biker players are very rarely smart players.

What's WAAC?

Hold your mouse over this: WAAC and you will see your answer

Nice reports

Night Lords wrote:Thanks for the reports, but you shouldnt have had such a pessimistic attitude about the last match up. Your entire army (not including the avatar) could move 24". You should have been zipping around the board playing hit and run. He only had two units with very little shooting (if any). He counted on being able to catch his opponents and you brought an even faster list. Could have thrown some bait units at him just outside of the 18" range in an attempt to have him forfeit turbo boosting so you could blow him away with your S8+ weapons without cover.


In any case, like others have said, you should have prepared for a list like this when you designed your list. It is expected at these things to meet people like this.

ugh he can move 24" as well. And if I move 24" im not shooting, or doing anything really, other than zooming around. And if he catches me and immobilzes me I crash. His entire 2 units spread the entire table length when he set them up, there was no "running away".



Its also a lot easier to say nob bikers are easier to kill than they appear. thats seemingly misleading, they have 2 wounds, FNP, 4+ cover, and 5+ invulnerable. I dont consider this easy to kill by any standard. Especially when theres 20. So I drop 2 S9 plates, I hit maybe 2 bikes with each plate, maybe. He makes his 4+, and no one dies. I dump dragons out, kill 2, then they die. Now I have not much left to ID them, and he always has a 4+ anyways. And all my small arms are even harder to wound, and if they do he does wound shenanigins to keep all 10 still alive.

Mafty wrote:

Night Lords wrote:Thanks for the reports, but you shouldnt have had such a pessimistic attitude about the last match up. Your entire army (not including the avatar) could move 24". You should have been zipping around the board playing hit and run. He only had two units with very little shooting (if any). He counted on being able to catch his opponents and you brought an even faster list. Could have thrown some bait units at him just outside of the 18" range in an attempt to have him forfeit turbo boosting so you could blow him away with your S8+ weapons without cover.


In any case, like others have said, you should have prepared for a list like this when you designed your list. It is expected at these things to meet people like this.

ugh he can move 24" as well. And if I move 24" im not shooting, or doing anything really, other than zooming around. And if he catches me and immobilzes me I crash. His entire 2 units spread the entire table length when he set them up, there was no "running away".



Its also a lot easier to say nob bikers are easier to kill than they appear. thats seemingly misleading, they have 2 wounds, FNP, 4+ cover, and 5+ invulnerable. I dont consider this easy to kill by any standard. Especially when theres 20. So I drop 2 S9 plates, I hit maybe 2 bikes with each plate, maybe. He makes his 4+, and no one dies. I dump dragons out, kill 2, then they die. Now I have not much left to ID them, and he always has a 4+ anyways. And all my small arms are even harder to wound, and if they do he does wound shenanigins to keep all 10 still alive.

Except he cant move 24" if he wants to assault. He can't move 24" with you if there is terrain in the way. You outnumber him with your heavy support alone. Like I said, you could have used hit and run tactics. Kite with one unit while another blasts away. Even if he assaults your tank he gets no cover.

They are not easy to kill, you are right there. However, Each one you kill is atleast 50 points. You should not have been caught by his bikers the entire game.

I think the problem is you gave up. Even now your attitude seems pretty negative. Ofcourse hes going to make his 4+ saves if you dont make him take any! If you want to play in tournaments like these, I think you need to toughen up mentally because youre going to see a ton of this. It was not unbeatable. Infact, I would have loved to see his face as he aimlessly chases my tanks around the board for 7 turns.

EDIT: Note im not trying to flame or cause an argument. Im trying to help you for the future. Dont take this personally please.

This report was mean beans, great fight in the center there... I do not envy that poor bastard.

Night Lords wrote:

Mafty wrote:

Night Lords wrote:Thanks for the reports, but you shouldnt have had such a pessimistic attitude about the last match up. Your entire army (not including the avatar) could move 24". You should have been zipping around the board playing hit and run. He only had two units with very little shooting (if any). He counted on being able to catch his opponents and you brought an even faster list. Could have thrown some bait units at him just outside of the 18" range in an attempt to have him forfeit turbo boosting so you could blow him away with your S8+ weapons without cover.


In any case, like others have said, you should have prepared for a list like this when you designed your list. It is expected at these things to meet people like this.

ugh he can move 24" as well. And if I move 24" im not shooting, or doing anything really, other than zooming around. And if he catches me and immobilzes me I crash. His entire 2 units spread the entire table length when he set them up, there was no "running away".



Its also a lot easier to say nob bikers are easier to kill than they appear. thats seemingly misleading, they have 2 wounds, FNP, 4+ cover, and 5+ invulnerable. I dont consider this easy to kill by any standard. Especially when theres 20. So I drop 2 S9 plates, I hit maybe 2 bikes with each plate, maybe. He makes his 4+, and no one dies. I dump dragons out, kill 2, then they die. Now I have not much left to ID them, and he always has a 4+ anyways. And all my small arms are even harder to wound, and if they do he does wound shenanigins to keep all 10 still alive.

Except he cant move 24" if he wants to assault. He can't move 24" with you if there is terrain in the way. You outnumber him with your heavy support alone. Like I said, you could have used hit and run tactics. Kite with one unit while another blasts away. Even if he assaults your tank he gets no cover.

They are not easy to kill, you are right there. However, Each one you kill is atleast 50 points. You should not have been caught by his bikers the entire game.

I think the problem is you gave up. Even now your attitude seems pretty negative. Ofcourse hes going to make his 4+ saves if you dont make him take any! If you want to play in tournaments like these, I think you need to toughen up mentally because youre going to see a ton of this. It was not unbeatable. Infact, I would have loved to see his face as he aimlessly chases my tanks around the board for 7 turns.

EDIT: Note im not trying to flame or cause an argument. Im trying to help you for the future. Dont take this personally please.

I agree entirely. Like I said, my friend got wiped by wraithguard eldar, an army he should have tabled, all because he was pissed about losing an earlier game. Going in with a good attitude can make all the difference.

Nob bikers are tough, that's for sure. 80% of the armies out there probably have a tough time against them. The fact that your list isn't really optimized makes it that much tougher. However, you don't have to kill his nobs to beat him. I feel mechdar is one of the best armies when it comes to objective games. And with only 2 scoring units for your opponent, if you play patiently and smartly, who knows. You might've been able to do a last-minute objective grab/contest.

BTW, did you know that if you had placed your objective on the 3rd level of a ruin (if one existed), he wouldn't be able to get to it at all? Bikers, for some reason, can't go up ruins.

Yea this thread seems to have derailed a bit. I realize nob bikers arent indestrucatible, it just there was 20, and in a 5 round game its mathematically impossible for me to kill them all.

I realize I dont have to kill them all to win or even draw, but running away for 5 turns isnt exactly easy either.

Anyways, I think the point has been made, and I dont want this thread to continue down that path.


Thanks for all the comments, and if we could keep the rest to Games 1,2,3 that be great thanks

Killing 20 models is not mathematically impossible, I just want you to be clear that you could have beaten him if you brought your 'A-Game', your list had all the tools required to give a him a real run for his money.
And, I'm sorry Mafty, but I don't see how talking about counter tactics for one of the armies you played is 'derailing', but it's your thread I suppose so...

As to game three, I just want to say that picture of the 3 Trygons gang banging the Avatar is really cool. Like SUPER cool. Like made-my-day level cool.

Foldalot wrote:Killing 20 models is not mathematically impossible, I just want you to be clear that you could have beaten him if you brought your 'A-Game', your list had all the tools required to give a him a real run for his money.
And, I'm sorry Mafty, but I don't see how talking about counter tactics for one of the armies you played is 'derailing', but it's your thread I suppose so...

As to game three, I just want to say that picture of the 3 Trygons gang banging the Avatar is really cool. Like SUPER cool. Like made-my-day level cool.

it is mathematically impossible, my fire dragons get one round of shooting before dying, after that I can only kill 1-2 models per turn. Given theres usually only 5 turn, I can only kill about 10 models on good shooting throughout an entire game.

I managed to kill 5, and wound about 7. There was absolutly no way I could kill all 20, Im sorry,but there just wasnt. Im not saying I couldnt have won the game (I could have using good tactics, playing smart)

Mathematically Impossibible is not tha same as unlikely. I'm not even being fastidious, there is just a huge gap in meaning between 'Impossible' and 'Average rolls', what if you shoot with your Firedragons the same turn you charge with another unit, like the Avatar of the Scorpions. Or even better you shoot with your fire dragons, assume he will charge you (he will) then proceed to spank the now isolated unit with your whole army, shoot it to bits first with EVERYTHING (yes you are quick, you can do it) then have your Avatar/ Scorpions in a counter charging position. Eldrad should be killing an unwounded nob every other turn (on average, or there abouts) too.

At almost any point after the first couple of turns you could be tank shocking them to bits too. Branding it 'mathematically impossible' is just hyperbole, and detracts from the discussion.

Eldrad mind warring a painboy to death can cause real problems for nobs. I have a friend who runs the super nob squad, and I have mindwarred the painboy out of it before. Makes the unit so much easier to kill.

I would barely even call it unlikely, you should be able to cripple a Nob squad in a single round of shooting even if they did turbo boost, with a fully optimised list you could probably wipe a squad per turn. I did the Mathhammer in my first post in this thread and I forgot to factor in Eldrad using Mind War to crush something (Painboy first to remove FNP then Warboss to stop him eating ID wounds) and didn't allow for the Avatar or Scorpions assaulting them (if you could get there). The only trick is to use your Serpents to block the other Nob unit from getting to your disembarked units, this imo is one of the most important skills to learn as a Mechdar player.

The Prisms should be IDing 1 Nob per turn each minimum even allowing for the Warboss taking some hits (they are big bases and you only have to clip them), thats at least 10 dead Nobs over the course of a game without anything else helping out. The Nobs aren't going to stop them shooting without assaulting them so you can split them (one in each corner basically, range isn't an issue) and use Serpents as blocking units to stop them being assaulted. Just feed him a unit per turn to hold him up and you should be fine.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Eldrad mind warring a painboy to death can cause real problems for nobs. I have a friend who runs the super nob squad, and I have mindwarred the painboy out of it before. Makes the unit so much easier to kill.

I completley forgot about even using this. That actually would have made a major difference. Lossing FNP severly cripples the nobs. Altough he still has an invulnerable save he could make to stop mind war, it just says you lose wounds with no armor saves.

I think when you guys are mathhammering the flamers your forgetting about the invulnerable save, then the FNP.

And as for wiping a squad per turn, either i was incredibly unlucky or it just isnt that easy. I did focus fire, and shot everything into one squad, and only killed 2 models, and wounded 1. So 15.5 wounds still to go......I was very far off killing a squad per turn.

Mafty wrote:

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:Eldrad mind warring a painboy to death can cause real problems for nobs. I have a friend who runs the super nob squad, and I have mindwarred the painboy out of it before. Makes the unit so much easier to kill.

I completley forgot about even using this. That actually would have made a major difference. Lossing FNP severly cripples the nobs. Altough he still has an invulnerable save he could make to stop mind war, it just says you lose wounds with no armor saves.

I think when you guys are mathhammering the flamers your forgetting about the invulnerable save, then the FNP.

And as for wiping a squad per turn, either i was incredibly unlucky or it just isnt that easy. I did focus fire, and shot everything into one squad, and only killed 2 models, and wounded 1. So 15.5 wounds still to go......I was very far off killing a squad per turn.

That nob is leadership 7, it uses his base leadership. He will likely die from the 3-4 wounds eldrad inflicts before the saves. Then you can hit them up with all the instant death weapons, and finally volley of fire when hes down to 2-3 nobs. Say you shoot him with prisms, the problem this presents him is he can put wounds on the boss or not. If he does he saves nobs, but the boss will likely die to torrent of fire. Its not an easy unit to deal with for eldar though. I have a bug army that could pound nob bikers like nobody else

I just think it's funny that you're complaining about Nob Bikers when you brought Eldrad and Avatar.

- Blackbone

There is little comparison in power level between eldrad and avatar and nob bikers.

There is little comparison in power level between eldrad and avatar and nob bikers.

Blackbone wrote:I just think it's funny that you're complaining about Nob Bikers when you brought Eldrad and Avatar.

- Blackbone

Comparing 20 nob bikers to my eldrad and avatar combo (which BTW sucks in 5th edition, I only use it because I own the models) is just obsurd. Sure fortune avatar is hard to kill, but 20 nob bikers is basically like killing 10 avatars (seriously.....2 wounds a piece, 4+/4+ (same as my avatar....)).



I also did not know the nob was LDR7, good to know for the future. Like I said the guy I was playing was shady with telling me much about the unit, let alone informing me about their gear loadout.

I also think he could 5+/4+ the mind war? He gets his 5+ invul, and FNP allows unsaved wounds, which the invul would be, so it would still be hard to put wounds in with mind war.