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I wasn't sure where to post this question so here it goes.

I just recently got back into playing 40k on VASSAl, and it seems to me that the random number generator rolls a heck of a lot of 1's. Even worse than my little chessex dice do!

It almost seems like it gets into a pattern, where once it starts rolling low, it keeps rolling low.

Is it just me or has this been noticed by others as an issue?

GG

You have not made sweet, sweet love to it, so it's giving you the cold shoulder.

Get a little foreplay going on and I'm sure it'll get hot for you...

Err...what are we talking about again?

you are not the only one, it has been a pain in my side for quite a few games. of course it tends to just plain roll lots of ones to begin with, then adds more ><

Over time, it balances itself out statistically. And...you learn to accept it.

My Dark Eldar are famous for their horrible shooting with lances on Vassal. But at the tournaments I've attended, my lance shooting is equally horrible.....so I don't know what to say. =p

Yeah. Mine's the opposite way, it rolls an inordinate amount of 6's for me.

My regular opponent hates it, because he experiences all the 1's.

I think that the difference with Vassel is it lines all those 1s up in a neat row, which makes them seem a lot more prevalent.

The number gen in vassal isn't that great, you can see it in that it tends to roll numbers in bunches. This mostly only gets noticed if you have a bunch of 6's or 1's at once. This is probably due to a bad choice of seed for the number gen.

That said, it's not terrible by any means, and it affects both players equally, so it usually isn't a problem imho.

The problem is that Vassal uses the old Random algorithm that comes standard with every Programing language. so it's not perfectly random. so it's sways between perfectly balanced or horribly imbalanced.

Anavrin wrote:The number gen in vassal isn't that great, you can see it in that it tends to roll numbers in bunches.....

Yes this is what I see as well, and is my main complaint. Often times you will see something like this..(6,6,5,4,3,2,1,1,1,1,1)

GG

Anavrin wrote:The number gen in vassal isn't that great, you can see it in that it tends to roll numbers in bunches. This mostly only gets noticed if you have a bunch of 6's or 1's at once. This is probably due to a bad choice of seed for the number gen.

That said, it's not terrible by any means, and it affects both players equally, so it usually isn't a problem imho.

Not if someone is using terminators and someone is using guard!

My Lysander squad gets destroyed so often...

generalgrog wrote:

Anavrin wrote:The number gen in vassal isn't that great, you can see it in that it tends to roll numbers in bunches.....

Yes this is what I see as well, and is my main complaint. Often times you will see something like this..(6,6,5,4,3,2,1,1,1,1,1)

GG

It's better organized that way, though - used to just be a massive clump of numbers. If you do the auto-hit/wound roller in the last version of v40k, it sorts them neatly by digit. It makes it way easier to read, especially for units that roll a block of dice and reroll 1s (not misses or failed wounds).

That said, my friend hates the generator with a burning passion. He's never once passed an armor save on a Justicar with that thing.

Well, the Rolling is done by the Vassal Engine itself, not the module.

The Engine is under the GNU Lesser General Public License. Anyone on dakka want to crack it open and fix the RND Gen?

Oh, and here I thought it was a subroutine designed to make BT Terminators always hit with their assault cannons, but never hit in HtH.

Locclo wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

Anavrin wrote:The number gen in vassal isn't that great, you can see it in that it tends to roll numbers in bunches.....

Yes this is what I see as well, and is my main complaint. Often times you will see something like this..(6,6,5,4,3,2,1,1,1,1,1)

GG

It's better organized that way, though - used to just be a massive clump of numbers. If you do the auto-hit/wound roller in the last version of v40k, it sorts them neatly by digit. It makes it way easier to read, especially for units that roll a block of dice and reroll 1s (not misses or failed wounds).

That said, my friend hates the generator with a burning passion. He's never once passed an armor save on a Justicar with that thing.

I realize that it's easier to read, but my point was not about organization, but about the disproportionate # of 1's. For example I have yet to see something like this (6,6,6,6,6,6,5,4,2,1,1) It's always a massive amount of 1's. And if you play elite armies rolling more 1's makes the game off balance, when facing armies that don't care as much like guard, orks or nids.

GG

Yep I find when it does that for me I'll have two awesome turns at the start then suddenly eveyone in my army gets ADD.

Roll to hit, out of ten SoB two hit. Maybe one wound or so. But then I mostly pass all the saves >_>

But this one time the entire army was like that except for two SoB with Meltaguns. They managed to walk through everything (with some AoF help) from 20-30 something lasgun shots to two Executioner LRBTs shooting at them per turn. By the end of the game they managed to walk right up to those tanks and melta them.

If It's Eldar, it's usually Yriel who does this. First game I use him. Jumps in an enpty Wave Serpent and it uses Star Engines to race into the enemy IG gunline. The WS crashs and he gets out behind it. Nothing in the gunline can drawn los. He moves through a ruin and gets 6 to move, then runs getting another 6. Then manages to get into CC with a Heavy Weapons Team. Kills just enough to use them as cover for the next shooting phase, then uses the eye to kill everything. In my next turn he runs out and smashes a LRBT Squadron. Both explode and he just stands there.

He manages to make it through most of that turn (happened to be the very last turn) then died from the very last shot of the game from a Melta Vet. Meanwhile the rest of the army had been hiding in a nearby forest because anything that even took a slight step out of it's magic luck barrier died horribly. Usually 5s and 6s to hit and wound them followed by them getting 1s and 2s for saves.

So while it can be one sided, sometimes it's kind of cool.

I have heard there is a crack available to rig hte dice rolls. I haven't seen it though since I've never played.

G

Not sure what the point of the crack would be anyway, kind of takes away all the fun.

You have to be carefull what you believe on the internet NOt_u.

Some people just like to stir the pot---->BBF

GG

Where are the random numbers being generated? If they're being generated by one of the clients, and the source code is available, why are you trusting that the other person is using the same random number generator?

Then again, how do you know the other player isn't sitting there premeasuring all of his shots, either?

It never ceases to amaze me the level of paranoia that gamers can reach.

GG

Then again, how do you know the other player isn't sitting there premeasuring all of his shots, either?

Primary reason why I don't do it anymore...and the fact that 40K Online purged all things 40K Vassal due to the C&D letter 40KVassal got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@generalgrog:
I just isn't realistic any more... and it's not paranoia, it's generally not a tight knit gaming group.. and unless you are there with them, you will never know.

"Scouts' Honor" doesn't translate well through the internet IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And come on... the internet has spawned awesome sauce stuff like Pedobear... you have to be paranoid...it's like a requirement.

I guess I don't really view VASSAL as a competive 40k environment. You don't get TLOS, so a lot of things are abstracted. However, it is great for testing out stuff you want buy before you waste money buying a unit that ends up stinking. Or maybe you want to try it out to see if you like the feel of certain army.

The OP was just an observation I have made and others as well that RNG seems to be "off"

GG

Vassal will never replace table-top 40k; that isn't the intent.

But for folks with friends far away, or unable to get a local game, its a great thing.

I ing hate the Dice generator with a vengeance. For the last 3 games it's been apain in my ass, with none of my weapons doing jack, and the enemy getting loads of pens against my vehicles.

1s on vassal. Oh the pain >< 45 lootas shots..... none of them made a wound once. I was just lucky I had another squad.

Please let old threads alone.