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I tend to agree that the inquisitor lord and landraider are a bit expensive for what you get. The Elite inquisitor is better.

The Vindicare, unfortunately, is not that awesome. The Callidus, OTOH, can be well worth taking an inquisitor lord.

The standard is excellent. You don't put the command HQ in a chimera. You keep them cheap and hide them. Plasma is solid too. Who cares if a couple of guardsmen die? Any kills they get are certainly worth more than the dead guys.

I think Inquisitor with Land Raider is only good when you have 3 AV14 Russes to start, preferably AV14/13 Demolishers. That way, the Land Raider forces the opponent to deal with a 4th AV14/13+ tank.

Manna:

I'm just saying, Ryann said you put the command HQ in a Chimera and pop out while still providing the banner and command LD, which isn't how it goes.

I'd rather have vets killing more marines. I use my command platoons for flamer and melta duty, where I'm not as concerned about BS. Basic guardsmen with plasmaguns don't do very good against marines. You have a chance at killing a marine, for more points than the marine--and a chance at killing myself, not to mention I get to fire once then I die? Gee, sign me up for that duty! lol

I don't think the standard is very good. What use is it when your men are dead?

JohnH:

Then you should bring a Land raider army instead! It won't have weak side armor easily exploited by everyone...and you still end up running a coin toss army.
No whammy...no whammy...NECRONS! (Whammy!)

little misunderstanding stelek.
by jump out, i meant jump out from the gunline, not out of a chimera, and i was referring to the platoon command squad with the 3 flamers, and not the HQ command squad with the standard. the only chimera in the list is for the AF squad. it's obvious that the standard would be a waste in a command squad that is mounted in a tank, which is why the standard bearer is thoroughly reccomended in a list like this, where it would be on the ground supporting the troops.

Stelek wrote:JohnH:
Then you should bring a Land raider army instead! It won't have weak side armor easily exploited by everyone...and you still end up running a coin toss army.

In general, Land Raiders are a bad idea because they are so very expensive - 250+ pts for the tank and 50+ pts worth of Inquisitor / Retinue. But if you've already got 3 Russes, with 300+ pts to spare, and an open Elite or HQ slot, it might not be the worst way you could spend the points.

But even then, I'd rather first have 2 or 3 Hellhounds before adding any Land Raiders.

Was going to use the vindicare to hopefully pick out CC IC's and kill them before they hit my lines.

Think I should just drop the inquisitor, vindicare, and land raider, and take myself some more tanks?

Well, given the very small number of troops, I don't think LD doctrines, big leaders, or standards are good ways to spend your points.

Now matter how much you spend on 'em, IG are still just 6 point guardsmen that die in droves.

Sekai, a Callidus assassin is really really good. You can bring a Inq Lord in a LR, just make sure you have enough other tanks in your army for it to not be the only target. Personally if I was going to do what you are doing, I'd make a moderate CC unit based around the Inq lord and march it up the table. Pack the RR behind it, and people would be shocked. lol

If your going to take a inquisitor lord why not keep him cheap and put him on anti deepstrike duty. Cadius asassins are a great value. They are practically an one man army. They can take down characters, multiple squads and they can use deployment tricks.

If you look at his cost. He is cheap. He's just there to give me a Land Raider. He's going to be going along with the leman russes. The reason the russes have lascannons is so if I do have to move them, and can't fire the cannon, I have something else that will kill tanks.

Sekai wrote:The reason the russes have lascannons is so if I do have to move them, and can't fire the cannon, I have something else that will kill tanks.

Really, really not worth it. With few exceptions, there is one law about Guard vehicles and infantry:

Infantry kill tanks.
Tanks kill infantry.

If your Russ isn't firing its Battlecannon, it should be firing 1 or 3 Heavy Bolters. Your infantry should be killing tanks. You should have enough Lascannons in your infantry squads to handle any vehicles you may face. This leaves the Russes the job of killing enemy infantry. Do not stray from this.

BYE

Ummm....you can move and fire the cannon. It doesn't lose accuracy really, it just gains more inaccuracy if you scatter.

You shouldn't be trying to kill tanks with Leman Russes anyway.

Guard squads with Lascannons have that duty. Leman Russes are anti-infantry. Honest!

Didn't realize I could move and fire the cannon. Yay.

Alright. Once again, here is a revised list:

HQ:
Command Platoon: Senior Officer with a Standard Bearer

Troops:
Infantry Platoon with 2 Plasmaguns and a Lascannon in the Command Squad, 5 Infantry Squads with Lascannons/Plasmaguns, all with Sharpshooters

Armoured Fist Squad with Lascannon/Plasmagun, Chimera with Extra Armour

Heavy:
2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks with 3 heavy bolters, Extra Armour, Pintle Mounted Heavy Stubber
Basilisk with Indirect Fire

Fast Attack:
2 Hell Hounds with Extra Armour
10 man squad of Rough Riders with Hunting Lances, Veteran Sergeant with Hunting Lance, Plasma Pistol, Meltabombs, Master-Crafted Weapon, Honorific Imperialis

The entire army has Chameoline!

i would drop the plasma pistol on the rr vet sarge and give him a power weapon or powerfist. my reasoning? after the first round of combat, he will hopefully still be alive, and without a better weapon, he will be striking with T3 allowing saves.

Switch the heavy stubbers from the russes to the hellhounds. they will be able to fire every turn, and will be targetting weaker armored troops.

Standard advice: Toss the AF squad, use grenadiers with GL instead.

You don't need a SO or a SB, you don't have enough guardsmen to justify the purchase. 100+ is really where it is useful.

RR sarge on crack. Interesting, is it worth the +1 attack? I don't think it is myself. What are you master-crafting, by the way? Hehe seems silly whatever your answer is gonna be.

Chameoline is fine I guess, but why sharpshooters and plasmaguns? You know you can't use sharp w/plasma, right? Give them a GL instead, you'll not blow through armor but sharpshooter will work, and it'll give you a little extra kick. Plus if you need to retreat, you can still kick out a S6 shot.

Sharpshooters is for the lascannons. And I really don't want to drop the AF squad.

Stelek wrote:Standard advice: Toss the AF squad, use grenadiers with GL instead.

Are you kidding? You going to waste the BS4 of Grenadiers on Grenade Launchers, the most unecessary and redundant weapon in a Guard commander's arsenal? And then you're going to go so far as to label it 'Standard Advice'.

Even Grenadiers themselves have no actual utility. They use of a Doctrine Point, which is a waste of time when you can get the same thing in the form of Inquisitorial Storm Troopers without wasting a Doctrine Point, and they have none of the abilities of real Storm Troopers. Even Daemonhunter Inquisi Stormies can get a Thunder Hammer for their Vet Sergeant. What can Grenadiers get?

The only utility Grenadiers serve is in small games where you don't want to bring stacks of infantry. Sekai is not playing a small game...

BYE

Nope, obviously I'm not.

AF suck. Grenadiers suck. Your suggestions aren't very useful since they don't let you meet the requirements for a 2nd troop choice.

He isn't using 5 doctrines, so the reason he cannot use grenadiers is...it offends you or something? Well, that makes sense.

The only utility I'm going for are:

Low cost, meets 2nd troop choice requirement, doesn't suck as bad as AF do, and might actually get to shoot at something with 2 S6 shots unlike all the other uber weapons you speak of that grenadiers who cannot drop and cannot infiltrate will probably never get to use unless the enemy comes over to your side of the board where you have them hidden and lets you shoot him.

I really really really really REALLY want to laugh in your face for suggesting a DH Inquisitorial Stormtrooper Sargent with a Thunder Hammer, but I can't with milk running out of my nose. Teach me to read dakka and have a glass of milk. First power weapons, now Thunder Hammers! LOLOLOL great stuff.

Stelek wrote:AF suck. Grenadiers suck.

AF's suck based on what?

Yes, they cost as much as an un-upgraded platoon, which is why I usually opt for a second platoon, but taking Grenadiers in the place of an AF? That might make sense if you would try to at least make the Grenadiers useful, something you won't go by giving them Grenade Launchers.

Stelek wrote:Your suggestions aren't very useful since they don't let you meet the requirements for a 2nd troop choice.

Which wasn't may aim.

Stelek wrote:He isn't using 5 doctrines, so the reason he cannot use grenadiers is...it offends you or something? Well, that makes sense.

The best utility he would get would be the typical Iron Discipline/Close Order Drill/Drop Troops/Veterans/Something else. In his case, given he took Carapace Armour to start with, I think the 'something else' could be Cameleoline, leaving no room for Grenadiers.

Stelek wrote:Low cost, meets 2nd troop choice requirement, doesn't suck as bad as AF do, and might actually get to shoot at something with 2 S6 shots unlike all the other uber weapons you speak of that grenadiers who cannot drop and cannot infiltrate will probably never get to use unless the enemy comes over to your side of the board where you have them hidden and lets you shoot him.

Uber-weapons I speak of?

Stelek wrote:I really really really really REALLY want to laugh in your face for suggesting a DH Inquisitorial Stormtrooper Sargent with a Thunder Hammer

You're a real arrogant one aren't you, Stelek?

And you have no right to laugh at anyone when you suggest idiotic units such as Grenadiers with GL's. GL's for Emperor's sake. For 4 more points the unit gets Plasma Guns. Same range. More power.

BYE

Can't move and fire. Grenadiers with GL add something to IG tactically.

Sorry you can't see that.

Enjoy your plasmagunners and your thunder hammer on a infiltrating guard unit.

I'm sure it will do well.

~Gets out the firehose~

Keep it civil, folks.

Well. I'm not switching to GL Stormtroopers, cause that'd be stupid. I'm keeping my AF squad because I bought it and I like the idea.

Third list! (Fun!)

HQ:
Command Platoon with Senior Officer, Iron Discipline

Troops:
Infantry Platoon with 2 Plasmaguns and a Lascannon in the Command Squad, 5 Infantry Squads with Lascannons/Plasmaguns, all with Sharpshooters

Armoured Fist Squad with Lascannon/Plasmagun, Chimera with Extra Armour

Fast Attack:
Hellhound with Extra Armour, Heavy Stubber
Hellhound with Extra Armour, Heavy Stubber
Hellhound with Extra Armour, Heavy Stubber

Heavy:
2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks with 3 heavy bolters, Extra Armour, Pintle Mounted Heavy Stubber
Basilisk with Indirect Fire

Hellhounds are awesome.

I hope the list does well for you, it looks pretty hard.

Why EA on the AF Chimera? Are they moving someplace or something?

Good point. You think it looks much better now, Stelek? I keep forgetting that all the infantry has Cameoline

The third list is by far the most effective. Unfortunately, it lacks all of the fun stuff YOU had in the previous two lists.

Yeah I'm never gonna be a fan of AF, but if you really want 'em ok.

I think it's missing CC, but if you remember to move out and rapid fire (with sharpshooters) anyone getting close to assaulting you...you should do fine.

Some lists will beat it, but so what? Every list has a weakness. Yours is at least nasty enough, esp if you can keep all your vehicles going and knock his out with your lascannons.

CC is hard to get effectively in a Guard army, at least I think. Maybe I should go and take some sanctioned psykers? ;0

no psykers.

rather than close combat, think counter assault... rough riders, conscripts, platoon commands..

C'mon. Psykers are bad ass!

the best way to get your psykers would be to drop the heavy stubbers from both of the leman russes. the heavy stubbers will rarely shoot from atop the russes, and will allow for the addition of 2 pyskers.